Should we destroy the U.S. Contitution?

[MaC]

A18 seems to think we should.

The Libertarian Party will never get anywhere because of nutcases like these, and the fact that they have a ridiculous platform, and party members who think abolishing taxation and gutting the military is a great idea.

They'll also never get anywhere because they think everything they don't like is unconstitutional. They sound like a bunch of Democrats. It's ridiculous, really.

Even though, if we had a democrat in office and in congress, I'd be willing to bet he'd be crying bloody murder to everything they pass being unconstitutional.

but hell, why not, let's pass the Patroit Act 2, which completely repeals the 1st, 4th and 5th Amendments.  And then lets repeal the 2nd amendment and turn in all our guns so people won't kill eachother.   (for those who don't notce, I'm being sarcastic).

[Erc]

The simple problem is, any Constitution, in order for it to work, needs the will of the people to defend it.  The people forgot about the Constitution over 100 years ago...and, with the exception of the 1st, 5th, 6th, and 14th Amendments, the country wouldn't change a bit if it were burnt.

Even the 'independent' judiciary submitted to mob rule under FDR.

[A18]

What in that post says anything about destroying the Constitution? I see we have a Libertarian jFraud now.

[beowulf]

By destroying the Constitution, do you mean the original document, or writing a new Constitution?

[MaC]

I defend the Constitution based upon what it reads as a strict code for how the government should be limited.  The reason libertarians cry out against laws being unconstitutional is because probably 90% of laws passed ARE unconstitutional.  (Don't quote me on the 90%). 

Where in the constitution does it say we can abridge or repeal your right to own firearms, or set up social safety nets like medicare or social security?  Where does it say we can go to war with Iraq?  Bush declared this war, even though it explicitly says in the Constitution congress has the power to declare war.  Where are black market drugs mentioned in the constitution?  What clause gives the government the right to declare a war on an invisible evil such as drugs or poverty, or terrorism? Where does it say that gays cannot marry?  And how would that possibly harm society in any signifigant way if they could?

And finally, how would raising taxes to fund the military signifigantly mkae our border safer or keep democracy in foriegn lands safe?  Switzerland has most of it's citizens armed and has very little military, but since they claim neutrality, they never have to worry about terrorism.

Seems to me, libertarians take the common sense approach to problems.  We realize that when the founding fathers wrote the constitution, they knew government was the wrong approach to social and economic problems, so they were careful to limit the government's power to a bare minimum. 

[A18]

When moderate Libertarians think the income tax is unconstitutional, well, something's not quite right.

No one repealed your right to own firearms. I agree that Social Security and Medicare are unconstitutional. Congress delegated the power to declare war to the president, conditionally. Federal drug laws are unconstitutional, but not state laws. Marriage is a state issue; the Constitution is silent on it.

[Brandon H]

As far as the question "Should we destroy the U.S. Contitution?" goes, our Government - meaning all three branches - are doing a good job of this.

[angus]

A18 seems to think we should.

The Libertarian Party will never get anywhere because of nutcases like these, and the fact that they have a ridiculous platform, and party members who think abolishing taxation and gutting the military is a great idea.

They'll also never get anywhere because they think everything they don't like is unconstitutional. They sound like a bunch of Democrats. It's ridiculous, really.

Even though, if we had a democrat in office and in congress, I'd be willing to bet he'd be crying bloody murder to everything they pass being unconstitutional.

but hell, why not, let's pass the Patroit Act 2, which completely repeals the 1st, 4th and 5th Amendments.  And then lets repeal the 2nd amendment and turn in all our guns so people won't kill eachother.   (for those who don't notce, I'm being sarcastic).

Conservative causes?  I don't know where you buy your dictionary but at 300 billion a pop, these new age "conservative" types aren't really a cheap date, are they?  Still, A18 makes a good point, the constitution does call for a standing army, at least implicitly, when it charges the President with its command.  And abolition of the IRS and public schools, while truly conservative, would not be in our national best interest.  I've said before that we are more Nationalistic than Conservative, anyway.

However, I agree completely with you that the Patriot Act was reactionary, violates several articles of the Bill of Rights, and needs to be repealed.   I would not consider it "legislating from the bench" if the Supreme Court were to agree.  Maybe you should get yourself busted for espionage, and then challenge it.  I would, but I'm busy just now.

also, I voted Hell No.

[David S]

Our constitution is in danger. Neither congress nor the president nor the supreme court care much about it. For that matter neither do the people. Members of this forum excluded, I suspect that most people have very little idea of what is in the constitution. Laws are passed which clearly violate the constitution and no one gives a damn.

It is through this gradual erosion of our rights that freedom may eventually be lost in America.

The constitution is only paper. It can only stand up if people are willing to stand up for it. And with rare exceptions that is not happening.

[MasterJedi]

Hell no!

[A18]

Our constitution is in danger. Neither congress nor the president nor the supreme court care much about it. For that matter neither do the people. Member of this forum excluded, I suspect that most people have very little idea of what is in the constitution. Laws are passed which clearly violate the constitution and no one gives a damn.

It is through this gradual erosion of our rights that freedom may eventually be lost in America.

The constitution is only paper. It can only stand up if people are willing to stand up for it. And with rare exceptions that is not happening.

What does that have to do with any of this? Libertarians just think things they don't like are unconstitutional.

[AkSaber]

Destroying it would be unconstitutional.

Exactly!

[David S]

Our constitution is in danger. Neither congress nor the president nor the supreme court care much about it. For that matter neither do the people. Member of this forum excluded, I suspect that most people have very little idea of what is in the constitution. Laws are passed which clearly violate the constitution and no one gives a damn.

It is through this gradual erosion of our rights that freedom may eventually be lost in America.

The constitution is only paper. It can only stand up if people are willing to stand up for it. And with rare exceptions that is not happening.

What does that have to do with any of this? Libertarians just think things they don't like are unconstitutional.

The question is "should we destroy the constitution?" I think I made it rather clear that my aswer is empahtically no.

[MaC]

What does that have to do with any of this? Libertarians just think things they don't like are unconstitutional.

What do you mean by this? What is it that we dislike personally that is Constitutional, that we call unconstitutional?( given that anyone within the realm of reality knows that some kind of tax is inevitable)

[A18]

They say the income tax is unconstitutional, even though the 16th amendment explicitly authorizes taxes on income "from whatever source derived."

[Brandon H]

Here is why the 16th Amendment is un-Constitutional:

http://www.apfn.net/Doc-100_bankruptcy20.htm

http://www.wcool.com/mo96/0326.html

[MissCatholic]

if we start playing with things like the constuition then whats next?

what type of impact would it have on us culturally? it could be a disaster. people want change becasue they want something in the short term. .

[David S]

I can't speak for all Libertarians, but as for me I have called the income tax despicable, but I have not called it unconstitutional.

I'm aware of the claim that the 16th amendment was not ratified, but I don't know how the issue could be forced so that the courts would have to address it. It would be entertaining to see how congress would react if it turned out the amendment was never ratified. "Lucy you got some 'splaining to do!"