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Author Topic: "See you at the pole" Christian prayer group  (Read 5607 times)
Platypus
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« on: May 11, 2005, 08:08:52 am »
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Tomorrow morning, at school, the school's christian group, Students Alive* will be running a prayer service at the school flagpoles.

This really irritates me. I have no problem with personal prayer in schools. But at a state school, it is my opinion that no grup can commandeer the area around our national flag.

The group that organises this event, which will be happenning at hundreds of schools nationwide, is SYTAP and it's pretty bloody fundamental. Their website has kids saying things like:

"Our friends, school and nation need our prayers"

If this was totally apolitical, i'd be fine with it. But in light of recent Howard attacks on state schools for their moral character, this is offensive. In a school with many many different ethnic backgrounds, and religious beliefs, I don't think one group should be able to comandeer a part of the school to pray for all the heathens and undesirables like those awful, condemned homosexuals :p

As I said, if you want to pray for that kinda stuff, fine. You'd still be an idiot, but it's your right. Public prayer at a state school, comandeering the flagpole is not on though. So, I'm going to get to school rather too early and sit in front of it.


Myeh.


*My mate wanted to start a Buddhist group, Students Re-alive, but was declined. There is a Jewish group, though.
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Richard
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« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2005, 10:06:24 am »
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So free speech should be banned at schools?
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minionofmidas - supplemental forum account
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« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2005, 10:11:43 am »
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Why wasn't the Buddhist group allowed? Now that's really anti-free speech.
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« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2005, 10:40:54 am »
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I don't think there's anything wrong with such a group, but not allowing the Buddhist group IS discriminatry and wrong.
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Gabu
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« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2005, 12:51:26 pm »
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Would the school allow anyone else to do something by the flagpoles?  If so, then this isn't really a big deal.  If not, then you have a case.
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« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2005, 03:12:58 pm »
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So free speech should be banned at schools?

Not if you read the ACLU definition of freedom of speech.
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Citizen James
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« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2005, 04:31:48 pm »
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So free speech should be banned at schools?

Not if you read the ACLU definition of freedom of speech.

Actually, the ACLU defends the right for students to engage in "see you at the pole" prayers.

From thier religious liberties page:

Quote
11. Student participation in before- or after-school events, such as "see you at the pole," is permissible. School officials, acting in an official capacity, may neither discourage nor encourage participation in such an event. 

from earlier on the same page, they define this in more general terms:

Quote
1. Students have the right to pray individually or in groups or to discuss their religious views with their peers so long as they are not disruptive. Because the Establishment Clause does not apply to purely private speech, students enjoy the right to read their Bibles or other scriptures, say grace before meals, pray before tests, and discuss religion with other willing student listeners. In the classroom students have the right to pray quietly except when required to be actively engaged in school activities (e.g., students may not decide to pray just as a teacher calls on them). In informal settings, such as the cafeteria or in the halls, students may pray either audibly or silently, subject to the same rules of order as apply to other speech in these locations. However, the right to engage in voluntary prayer does not include, for example, the right to have a captive audience listen or to compel other students to participate.

Are you actually aware of the positions of the ACLU, or do you simply assume their position will be one that disagrees with you?
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« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2005, 09:20:00 am »
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As I said, if you want to pray for that kinda stuff, fine. You'd still be an idiot, but it's your right. Public prayer at a state school, comandeering the flagpole is not on though. So, I'm going to get to school rather too early and sit in front of it.



Ja wohl!  Let's not let these undesirables peacibly assemble.

Actually, I have a better idea.  Let them assemble, then we can mark them with crosses tattooed on their foreheads, so that they're easier to identify when we begin to eliminate them from society.  Nasty filthy christians.  Opebo can bring his lions.  And you bring a big bullwhip.  It'll be grand.
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Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon
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« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2005, 09:54:56 am »
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Quote
This really irritates me. I have no problem with personal prayer in schools. But at a state school, it is my opinion that no grup can commandeer the area around our national flag.

Doesn't this argument sound a lot like the "Well I have no problem if the fag stays in the closet, but they shouldn't go around parading or being gay in public or together or anything" that a lot of bigots say?

Quote
The group that organises this event, which will be happenning at hundreds of schools nationwide, is SYTAP and it's pretty bloody fundamental. Their website has kids saying things like:

"Our friends, school and nation need our prayers"

Then what should they be praying for?

Quote
I don't think one group should be able to comandeer a part of the school

So you don't believe that any club or group should meet anywhere on school property?  Or does this bigotry only apply to Christians?

Quote
As I said, if you want to pray for that kinda stuff, fine.

As long as you aren't praying for your friends, school, or nation - of course.

Quote
Public prayer at a state school, comandeering the flagpole is not on though.

Comandeering?  Are they coming with rifles and bayonets and raising the protestant flag?

Quote
*My mate wanted to start a Buddhist group, Students Re-alive, but was declined. There is a Jewish group, though.

If your friend was specifically denied the ability to have a group just because it was Buddhist, then that is clearly discrimination and you should file a law suit.   Though I would probably deny the request for such a group with that name as the name either A) mocks the name of the Christian group or B) mocks a central belief of the Buddhist faith.
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« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2005, 06:53:55 am »
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Excellent post Don
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J. J.
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« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2005, 07:07:26 am »
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Excellent post Don

Agreed.  I don't have a problem with any group praying.
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« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2005, 02:17:26 pm »
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Why is it offensive to people when Christians want to pray? It isn't like they're forcing you to join in.
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« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2005, 12:21:29 pm »
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we have one at our school at the beginning of each school year, heavily attended by students, administrators, and teachers.  I've never been, and I don't have a problem with it.
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opebo
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« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2005, 01:08:15 pm »
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Why is it offensive to people when Christians want to pray? It isn't like they're forcing you to join in.

The exact same thing could be said of public nudity or having sex on the recess grounds!  If I am expected to refrain from sexual activities in public, then I think I can expect the religious not to flaunt their primitive rites in my face.  Talk about something you don't want your children to see!
« Last Edit: May 14, 2005, 01:10:28 pm by opebo »Logged

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