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Senator Cris
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« on: October 08, 2015, 07:40:34 am »

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President Griffin
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« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2015, 10:21:42 am »

I would like to propose the first matter of discussion be a concrete agreement on the number of regions that will exist in the new Constitution.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2015, 10:26:39 am »

I would like to propose the first matter of discussion be a concrete agreement on the number of regions that will exist in the new Constitution.
A thread will be opened soon.
Delegates can continue to propose matters of discussion, but I prefer to not face all these matters at the same time. It would be chaotic.
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Chief Justice windjammer
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« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2015, 12:08:37 pm »

I would like to open a thread about the diplomatic relations with the other political simulation.
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« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2015, 12:14:54 pm »

I would like to open a thread about the diplomatic relations with the other political simulation.

Seconded.
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Oakvale
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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2015, 12:15:23 pm »

I'd like to have a thread on a "blank slate" clause that would wipe out all current legislation - the fabled legislative reboot.
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Classic Conservative
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« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2015, 01:51:24 pm »

I'd like to have a thread on a "blank slate" clause that would wipe out all current legislation - the fabled legislative reboot.
Seconded
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2015, 02:03:23 pm »

I'd like to have a thread on a "blank slate" clause that would wipe out all current legislation - the fabled legislative reboot.
What do you mean?
Are you referring to the legislative system (the Senate, its composition)?
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Lincoln Republican
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« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2015, 04:00:24 pm »

I wish to propose a thread wherein it is confirmed that Atlasia has a clear separation of church and state.

The purpose of this would be to ensure that religious beliefs are protected under the constitution. 
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Classic Conservative
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« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2015, 04:07:38 pm »

I'd like to have a thread that guarantees that the Atlasian Constitution is above all foreign charters, treaties and agreements.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2015, 05:20:05 pm »
« Edited: October 08, 2015, 05:22:17 pm by Senator Truman »

To avoid cluttering the convention with two dozen or so threads dealing with minute details of the Constitution, I would propose opening five main "mega-threads" on the following subjects:

1. The Regions (consolidation, devolution, powers held by the Regions vs. the feds, etc.) NOTE: ALREADY CREATED
2. The Bill of Rights (rights held by citizens, powers denied to the government)
3. Plan of Government (structure, size, and powers of the federal government)
4. Elections (regulations and methods for electing the federal government)
5. Transition (transferring power from the new government to the old, possibility of a reboot, etc.)

Once a rough draft has been agreed to, I would also suggest appointing a "Committee on Style" to put it all together into a concise, logical document.
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Classic Conservative
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« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2015, 05:29:09 pm »

To avoid cluttering the convention with two dozen or so threads dealing with minute details of the Constitution, I would propose opening five main "mega-threads" on the following subjects:

1. The Regions (consolidation, devolution, powers held by the Regions vs. the feds, etc.) NOTE: ALREADY CREATED
2. The Bill of Rights (rights held by citizens, powers denied to the government)
3. Plan of Government (structure, size, and powers of the federal government)
4. Elections (regulations and methods for electing the federal government)
5. Transition (transferring power from the new government to the old, possibility of a reboot, etc.)

Once a rough draft has been agreed to, I would also suggest appointing a "Committee on Style" to put it all together into a concise, logical document.
Seconded.
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Oakvale
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« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2015, 06:47:47 pm »

I'd like to have a thread on a "blank slate" clause that would wipe out all current legislation - the fabled legislative reboot.
What do you mean?
Are you referring to the legislative system (the Senate, its composition)?

No. We wipe all laws passed from the books.
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Classic Conservative
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« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2015, 06:49:51 pm »

I'd like to have a thread on a "blank slate" clause that would wipe out all current legislation - the fabled legislative reboot.
What do you mean?
Are you referring to the legislative system (the Senate, its composition)?

No. We wipe all laws passed from the books.
So regional laws also?
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Lincoln Republican
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« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2015, 07:19:53 pm »

I'd like to have a thread on a "blank slate" clause that would wipe out all current legislation - the fabled legislative reboot.
What do you mean?
Are you referring to the legislative system (the Senate, its composition)?

No. We wipe all laws passed from the books.
So regional laws also?

If we are going to do this, I believe it would be a good idea to have both federal and regional laws wiped off the books, since there are so many stupid laws now on the books.

There are as well, of course, some very good laws, but some really stupid, stupid ones as well.

With a clean slate, that would enable the federal and regional governments to begin afresh with laws for the good of the people of the nation. 

Along this line, I would like to see, if possible, a law on the books banning stupid, ridiculous, trivial laws from being introduced or passed.   
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Leinad
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« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2015, 04:18:07 am »

I would like to propose a thread where we discuss the ban on holding offices in other nations.

As Oakvale pointed out, this is actually in the Constitution (Article I, Section 6). That's not a good thing, because (as myself and others have explained ad nauseum--I suppose I could rehash it if need be) it's a destructive policy to both us and our friends to the south.

Along this line, I would like to see, if possible, a law on the books banning stupid, ridiculous, trivial laws from being introduced or passed.   

I suppose this isn't the place for debate, but I can't help asking: how on earth would you objectively determine what's stupid, ridiculous, or trivial?
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2015, 08:54:09 am »

I started various threads on the following matters:

- Structure and size of the Senate;
- Structure, size and powers of Presidency and Vice Presidency;
- Powers of fed. govt (Senate) and reg. govts;
- Federal elections (President, Senate);
- Number of regions and regional governments;
- Diplomatic relationships with other countries;
- Wiping current laws.

I don't want to overloop a lot of matters, so threads about ban of holding offices and separation of Church and State will be opened in the next days, not now. I hope you'll understand.

Other matters that are inserted in the Constitution and that might be discussed soon (if delegates want):

- Separation of Church and State and generally people's rights;
- Ban of holding offices in other nations;
- Structure, size and powers of Cabinet;
- Structure, size and powers of Court;
- New Constitutional Convention;
- Candidacy and Office Holding Rules;
- Voter Registration and Voting Rules;
- Other things.
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President Griffin
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« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2015, 08:00:38 pm »

I think we need to implement some sort of self-imposed maximum number of discussions that are on the floor at any given time. There are currently 7.
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Leinad
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« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2015, 10:48:31 pm »

- Separation of Church and State and generally people's rights;
- Ban of holding offices in other nations;
- Structure, size and powers of Cabinet;
- Structure, size and powers of Court;
- New Constitutional Convention;
- Candidacy and Office Holding Rules;
- Voter Registration and Voting Rules;
- Other things.

Good ideas.

Here's another proposal: the rules regarding Presidential Pardons. I recently used the citizen initiative thing in an attempt to slightly reform the pardon system, but it didn't work in the Senate, somehow.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2015, 02:46:56 am »

I deleted the federal elections thread and I insterted the Senate elections part on the Senate thread and the Presidential elections part on the Presidential thread.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
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« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2015, 01:47:42 pm »

Mr. President and fellow Delegates:

While I heartily commend Cris for his thus-far phenomenal performance as Presiding Officer of this Convention, I must object to the current direction - or rather structure- of the ongoing debates. We have made the mistake of tying ourselves too closely to the model and text of the existing Constitution, with the result that debate has become chaotic and proposed reforms mired in the inadequacies of the status quo. I have attempted, over the last few days, to remedy this situation by proposing amendments to scrap each Article of the current Constitution individually; however, it has become evident that this approach is inadequate. I therefore propose the following resolution:

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Senator Cris
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« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2015, 02:26:54 pm »

I think that wiping the existing text is the right thing to do, it's only that we divided the debate on Article I into 2 threads (one for structure, size and elections of Senate and the other for powers of Senate and regions).

I think we can wipe all Article I and then rephrase it. It's only that we should respect the current formulation.

That's my proposal:

- Thread on Structure, size and elections of Senate: wipe and rephrase Sections 1, 2, 3, 4 of Article I.
- Thread on powers of Senate and regions: wipe and rephrase Sections 5, 6 of Article I. Also we might wipe Section 7 and create another Article interely focused on powers denied to the regions, instead of keeping it in Article I (there's not a real link). Also we might insert Section I of Article VII (about Amendments, that's a Senate thing) in Article I in place of Section 7.

What do you think?
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2015, 03:05:51 pm »

I think that wiping the existing text is the right thing to do, it's only that we divided the debate on Article I into 2 threads (one for structure, size and elections of Senate and the other for powers of Senate and regions).

I think we can wipe all Article I and then rephrase it. It's only that we should respect the current formulation.

That's my proposal:

- Thread on Structure, size and elections of Senate: wipe and rephrase Sections 1, 2, 3, 4 of Article I.
- Thread on powers of Senate and regions: wipe and rephrase Sections 5, 6 of Article I. Also we might wipe Section 7 and create another Article interely focused on powers denied to the regions, instead of keeping it in Article I (there's not a real link). Also we might insert Section I of Article VII (about Amendments, that's a Senate thing) in Article I in place of Section 7.

What do you think?

I'm fine with this, but I still think it would be best if we agreed to erase the existing Constitution entirely before going any further.
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bore
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« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2015, 07:11:13 am »

I strongly agree with Truman here.

I think we should have one debate on the structure of atlasia because these things aren't really separable. I might support having no VP if there is a large cabinet and large senate but support having one if there's a small cabinet and small senate, say.

So I think we should have one large debate on the number of regions, the number of offices in those regions, how the supreme court cabinet and senate work in terms of numbers and, once that is voted on and decided we can focus on the nitty gritty.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2015, 12:46:43 pm »

As of now, the current Constitution articles are under discussion:

- Article I (Senate and its powers, powers denied to regions: Sections 1, 2, 3, 4 being discussed in a thread; Sections 5, 6, 7 in another thread)
- Article II (Presidency, VP: all Sections in one thread)
- Article IV (Regions: all Sections in one thread)
- Article VII (only Section 1 about Amendment Procedure: being discussed in Senate powers thread, along with Sections 5, 6, 7 of Article I)

Not being discussed right now:

- Article III (Supreme Court and Trials)
- Article V (Candidacy/Office Holding Rules and Voter Registration/Voting rules)
- Article VI (Ethical issues)
- Section 2 of Article VII (New Convention, already changed by the Senate some weeks ago)
- Article VIII (Continuity of Government and Citizenship and Miscellaneous Carry-overs)

Also there are various amendments to the Constitution (about Cabinet for example).

You can find all here: https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Third_Constitution_(single_page)
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