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  Number of Regions/Regional Governments (DEBATE CLOSED)
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Author Topic: Number of Regions/Regional Governments (DEBATE CLOSED)  (Read 38227 times)
Senator Cris
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« on: October 08, 2015, 10:36:41 am »
« edited: February 17, 2016, 10:29:54 am by Speaker Cris »

This is what the Constitution said about our regions.

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Senator Cris
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« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2015, 10:38:51 am »

I think we should insert in the Constitution the number of new regions and what states are included in a region. Also we should work about Section 1.
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SUSAN CRUSHBONE
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« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2015, 10:41:29 am »
« Edited: October 08, 2015, 11:19:15 am by low-energy loser evergreen »

proposed amendment:

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Clyde1998
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« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2015, 10:42:55 am »

Seconded.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2015, 11:16:48 am »

To all delegates: please specify if it's an amendment or just a suggestion.
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Lumine
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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2015, 11:40:46 am »

Three, I think, would be the absolute most we can sustain.

And for the record, I am fully against the last "secession" proposal. To enact something like that would be to invite the dissolution of Atlasia within five minutes, not to mention seccession itself is beyond pointless in the context of this game.
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Chief Justice windjammer
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« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2015, 12:06:24 pm »

Three, I think, would be the absolute most we can sustain.

And for the record, I am fully against the last "secession" proposal. To enact something like that would be to invite the dissolution of Atlasia within five minutes, not to mention seccession itself is beyond pointless in the context of this game.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2015, 12:09:48 pm »

There are obviously a number of changes that ought to be made to our current Regional system; however, our first step must be to strike out the existing text entirely. A piecemeal repair job, consisting of changing a few lines of text and crossing out an odd phrase here and there, will do little to remedy the malaise afflicting our current Republic.

As such, I offer the following amendment to the current text:

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Oakvale
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« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2015, 12:14:41 pm »

I would support 2 regions as outlined in Bore's plan of a couple of months ago.

I fully support Cylde's proposal - it's absurd that people would attempt to suppress democracy and, more importantly, activity by outlawing something that would inevitably make the game more entertaining and create a whole new range of issues.

I move we adopt Truman's proposal by acclamation to save time on a vote.
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rpryor03
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« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2015, 12:15:38 pm »

I second oakvale's motion.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2015, 12:22:14 pm »

I'd like to remember: when you present an amendment, please specify that it's an amendment. The same for when you'll object to amendments. Please specify that it's an objection.

These are the rules:

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Delegates have 24 hours to object to Evergreen's amendment:

proposed amendment:

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rpryor03
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« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2015, 01:09:32 pm »

I object to Evergreen's amendment. This is an important matter, and it needs to be discussed.
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Classic Conservative
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« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2015, 01:52:40 pm »

I also object.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2015, 02:01:32 pm »

I'll let the debate going on today.
Tomorrow, I'll open a 48-hours vote.
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bore
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« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2015, 02:23:01 pm »

I'm in favour of two regions.

We need to ask ourselves why we want regions? I think the answer is a combination of multiple things, to be a place where newcomers can get started easily, to be a place with a different political culture to the large senate and to have something which the federal government can interact with. None of these things require the regions to really interact with each other and it's telling that they almost never do.

One of the main points we can all agree on is there are too many offices in atlasia so we shouldn't have 3 regions, because regions take up an enormous amount of offices unless we have to, and given the purposes of regions, we don't have to.
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Lincoln Republican
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« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2015, 03:38:29 pm »

proposed amendment:

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I object to evergreen's proposed amendment.

This amendment sets a dangerous precedent.  All regions are part of one nation, and therefore the federal government, which represents the entire nation, should have input into such an important and far reaching action as secession. 

Seceding from the nation should not be a simple procedure.  There should be more input in this matter than, for example, a referendum in the region that passes by one vote, or whatever.
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Lincoln Republican
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« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2015, 03:51:42 pm »

I believe there should be three regions in Atlasia.

We definitely have to get away from having five regions.  Even four regions would be too many.
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Classic Conservative
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« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2015, 03:57:37 pm »
« Edited: October 08, 2015, 04:42:46 pm by Classic Conservative »

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This is an Admendment.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2015, 03:58:27 pm »

     I don't think secession should be allowed too easily, but at the same time the legalistic current in recent years has led to people being prosecuted for joke secessions. Secession can lead to important social change, I know about that firsthand. If it is allowed, it gives dissatisfied citizens an avenue to be heard.
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Clark Kent
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« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2015, 04:01:57 pm »

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This is an Admendment.
I second this. Secession should be constitutionally banned. The Union Forever.

Anyways, I also support reducing Atlasia down to three regions.
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Clyde1998
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« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2015, 04:03:08 pm »

proposed amendment:

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I object to evergreen's proposed amendment.

This amendment sets a dangerous precedent.  All regions are part of one nation, and therefore the federal government, which represents the entire nation, should have input into such an important and far reaching action as secession. 

Seceding from the nation should not be a simple procedure.  There should be more input in this matter than, for example, a referendum in the region that passes by one vote, or whatever.
The United Nations charter supports self-determination, should the voters of an area want that. It would be undemocratic to deny the rights of a region to become independent.
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Classic Conservative
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« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2015, 04:05:53 pm »

proposed amendment:

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I object to evergreen's proposed amendment.

This amendment sets a dangerous precedent.  All regions are part of one nation, and therefore the federal government, which represents the entire nation, should have input into such an important and far reaching action as secession. 

Seceding from the nation should not be a simple procedure.  There should be more input in this matter than, for example, a referendum in the region that passes by one vote, or whatever.
The United Nations charter supports self-determination, should the voters of an area want that. It would be undemocratic to deny the rights of a region to become independent.
Hate to tell you but Atlasia isn't governed by the UN charter it's governed by our constitution.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2015, 04:25:48 pm »

To quote Jefferson, "Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes," and in that vein I cannot support Evergreen's amendment. Giving the Regions the right to unilaterally withdraw from the Union, without placing a single restriction on how this might be done, completely upends the balance of power in a federal system. Not only does this proposal make for a very unstable Republic (the E.U., the Holy Roman Empire, and the U.S. under the Articles of Confederation all come to mind), it would effectively castrate the national legislature, allowing a majority of one Region to block legislation with the threat of separation.

On top of that, it is unclear to me why any Region would need a right to secede. With all due respect to the NNP, talk of the "cultural heritage" of the Regions is absurd: these are imaginary divisions created by posters on an online forum, a fair number of whom don't even live in their Atlasian Region IRL. Unlike the 13 Colonies or French Indochina, no Region has been deprived of the right to representation in the government, nor has any been forced to join Atlasia against their will. Maybe, if the president decides to declare himself dictator or the army leads a coup, there might hypothetically be a need for separation, but those instances are hardly commonplace enough to necessitate Constitutional protections (and in any case, a would-be dictator isn't likely to respect the Constitution).
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Lincoln Republican
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« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2015, 04:39:55 pm »

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This is an Admendment.

I support this amendment, perhaps re-worded

6.  Regions, states, or groups shall not have the right to secede from Atlasia or any of its territories.
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Classic Conservative
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« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2015, 04:41:10 pm »

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This is an Admendment.

I support this amendment, perhaps re-worded

6.  Regions, states, or groups shall not have the right to secede from Atlasia or any of its territories.
I'll reword it.
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