Number of Regions/Regional Governments (DEBATE CLOSED)

[NeverAgain]

3 Regions sounds good to me. I also say we make a constitutional amendment banning attempts to secede.

[NeverAgain]

I personally prefer three regions.

When it comes to secession I think the two extremes here are both stupid. If a region wishes to secede it should be able to do so, through fair and proper procedure. Completely banning the concept or saying we shouldn't interfere, ever, are both shortsighted approaches.

I agree partially. The Atlasian democracy has been and is based on fair representation, and with that goes the opportunity to free speech and talking to your representative. Secession is an extreme and frankly,  disastrous idea for Atlasia, and even the Northeast. I do agree that we should not ban the concept completely or ban the threat there of, but there is a limit. The people of Atlasia don't need government bureaucrats attempting to fight against its own government, just to have laws that they want enacted faster. If we allow secession, we are allowing any and all groups who feel they "do not belong" in Atlasia to just skip right out. With this in mind I am proposing a counter amendment to CC's.

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I know this was badly worded, I will fix it if anyone supports this.

[NeverAgain]

I can only support this Admendment if you get rid of the national referendum and then change the wording to 'local assembly and have been passed by a referendum.

Changed.

[NeverAgain]

But I still believe that the regions signed on to be part of this Union and with that they don't have the right to secede. Much, like the Confederacy and the Northeast is the Confederacy at this time.

tsss

the vast, vast majority of present-day northeasterners were not around at the founding of atlasia. and even if they had been, everything is entirely different now than it was then.

Yes. It is. Does that mean the Northeast should secede though? Also, how do you feel on my amendment? As you and CC are the most outspoken on the issue, albeit from different sides, if you guys agree on this, (with modifications) the hope for this convention will grow stronger.

[NeverAgain]

I would caution my fellow delegates against becoming fixated on a single aspect of the Regional system so early in the Convention. I don't discount the important of answering the secession question, but it's hardly the only issue before us.

Judging from the conversation in this thread, this seems to be where we stand at the moment:
- A majority support 3-Region consolidation
- An even split between those who favor a right to secede, those who oppose it, and those who want to make sure the process is carefully regulated
- No word on devolving more powers to the Regional governments

It makes the most sense to settle the issues we agree on first: therefore, I suggest that our next move (after my amendment to strike the current text has been adopted/rejected) be to settle on a map. For reference, here is the map adopted by the CARCA a few weeks ago, submitted by Griffin:



Assuming we go with a three-region system, how does everyone feel about this proposal?

Looks good. I would consider Kansas being part of the south, Minnesota + Iowa being part of the West, and Maryland, Delaware, + (possibly) Missouri part of the Northeast. Just a few ideas.

[NeverAgain]

Give or take MN or IA.

[NeverAgain]

Also, how do you feel on my amendment? As you and CC are the most outspoken on the issue, albeit from different sides, if you guys agree on this, (with modifications) the hope for this convention will grow stronger.

at least it establishes a clear procedure?
but nah i'm not a big fan of the senate (especially, but not only, the current senate) being the arbiters of independence.

You would support a referendum then?

[NeverAgain]

Abstain.

[NeverAgain]

I oppose NeverAgain's amendment. Should a region choose to secede, they should not have to go through the senate, much less the president, to do so.

I had a national referendum in there. Would you agree with that?

[NeverAgain]

Abstain.

[NeverAgain]

Yes, but we must have it as a referendum or governmental procedure. Disrupting Atlasia with willy-nilly secessionist movements will destroy us.

[NeverAgain]

I urge the existence of 4 regions.

     The geography of Atlasia does lend itself rather naturally to four regions. Especially if one abandons the notion of equal states in each region, which wasn't even actually followed once we introduced Puerto Rico and Oceania to the mixed.

Simply playing devils advocate, I don't think it is necessary that every region has an equal number of states - including D.C., this map has between 12-14 states in each region and looks aesthetically pleasing. It also, for the most part, keeps each state in a region most identifiable to its people.

I really like this map here.

[NeverAgain]

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[NeverAgain]

Aye

[NeverAgain]

Aye.

[NeverAgain]

Aye.

[NeverAgain]

Aye.

[NeverAgain]

What are we voting on exactly this time? I'm so lost

Whether to continue debate in this thread.

[NeverAgain]

Aye.

We're not voting yet (the vote will begin in ~24 hrs if there are no objections).

I didn't read the timestamp. Apologies.

[NeverAgain]

Nay. States should be allowed to make their own names, but not be forced to be acknowledged by the Federal Government.

[NeverAgain]

Nay, I think legislatures must be able to eb and flow with the population at the time. That being said some restrictions must be in place (like regional referendum) to stop unruly assemblies from getting out of hand. Mr. President, maybe this was already addressed, but what is the "manner prescribed by Congress" for regional legislature change, as this may clear up some things for me.

[NeverAgain]

Aye.

[NeverAgain]

The people in the regions can look out for themselves. We don't need to be treating them like small children.

No, they literally cannot: the proof that such is true is the entire reason why we're having to have this process occur in the first place. You guys were wrong two years ago; I was right. You're wrong today; I'm right. Unfortunately, I'll only get to brag with evidence about being right today after we've implemented yet another ed-up government and it comes to fruition once again.

Mr. President, would you mind explaining the benefits of the Federal Government controlling legislatures instead of Regions? I voted Aye to this being repealed due to the non-specificity of the "manner prescribed by Congress" could you maybe explain to me what this would entail and why this is so vital?

[NeverAgain]

Aye