Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
December 15, 2019, 09:21:37 pm
News: 2020 U.S. Senate Predictions are now active.

  Atlas Forum
  Atlas Fantasy Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Government
  Constitutional Convention (Moderators: Gustaf, Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee)
  Structure, size and elections of Senate/House (Debating)
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 ... 14 Print
Author Topic: Structure, size and elections of Senate/House (Debating)  (Read 23278 times)
Senator Cris
Cris
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5,539
Italy



Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: October 09, 2015, 08:01:25 am »
« edited: November 26, 2015, 09:25:36 am by Speaker Cris »

This thread will be about structure and size of the Senate.

Constitution articles about it:

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Logged
SUSAN CRUSHBONE
evergreen
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9,752
Antarctica


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2015, 08:36:19 am »

might be an interesting idea to replace the senate with an amalgam of every regional legislature, meeting together. would certainly rekindle interest in regional governments, although obviously there'd have to be some kind of regulation on the sizes of regional legislatures.
Logged
Senator Cris
Cris
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5,539
Italy



Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2015, 08:47:15 am »

If someone wants to discuss about bicameralism, this is the right thread.
Logged
Lincoln Republican
Winfield
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 13,963


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2015, 10:35:37 am »
« Edited: October 09, 2015, 10:41:06 am by Lincoln Republican »

In my view, a bicameral legislature is not practical for Atlasia at this time.

I do not believe we should be adding another layer of government to consider and debate legislation, unless increased activity warrants such a move.

If we do go to three regions, then we should have a Senate of nine, in order to have three Senators per region.  

I realize there may be some who would prefer two Senators per region, for a Senate of six.

Both of these options should be considered.
Logged
Associate Justice PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28,850
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2015, 03:39:25 pm »

might be an interesting idea to replace the senate with an amalgam of every regional legislature, meeting together. would certainly rekindle interest in regional governments, although obviously there'd have to be some kind of regulation on the sizes of regional legislatures.

     This is a really cool idea, and one that I would support. It would efficiently cut down on the number of offices while also maintaining a real place for the regions.
Logged
Classic Conservative
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5,649
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2015, 03:44:26 pm »

might be an interesting idea to replace the senate with an amalgam of every regional legislature, meeting together. would certainly rekindle interest in regional governments, although obviously there'd have to be some kind of regulation on the sizes of regional legislatures.
Thing is it would be very confusing, I couldn't really support this I thing the two regional senators per region and then 2 at large senators would be a much better idea.
Logged
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Politician
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 10,341


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2015, 07:09:23 pm »

As I said in the Regional thread, we really need to wipe the slate clean before rebuilding the government. I therefore propose the following amendment:

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Logged
Senator Cris
Cris
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5,539
Italy



Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2015, 02:48:49 am »

As I said in the Regional thread, we really need to wipe the slate clean before rebuilding the government. I therefore propose the following amendment:

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Delegates have 24 hours to object.
Logged
President Griffin
Adam Griffin
Atlas Politician
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15,649
Greece


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2015, 02:52:23 am »

We can definitely accommodate bicameralism in the new game - as I have explained like fifty-eight times at this point - but it will require firm regulation as to how many (legislative) offices each region can have at a given time, preferably through a formula that reduces the number of legislators for a region if it becomes either too small or too large as a percentage of the game's population.

Something like:

Idea #1 (My Favorite Idea)
  • <25% of the game's population = 3 Legislators
  • 25-40% of the game's population = 5 Legislators
  • >40% of the game's population = 3 Legislators
Logged
Senator Cris
Cris
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5,539
Italy



Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2015, 02:53:17 am »

I object to the Truman's amendment, only because Sections 5, 6, 7 of this Article are being discussed in another thread.
I'd suggest to wipe only Sections 1, 2, 3, 4 of this Article.
Logged
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Politician
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 10,341


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2015, 01:11:35 pm »

I object to the Truman's amendment, only because Sections 5, 6, 7 of this Article are being discussed in another thread.

If my fellow delegates would prefer, I would be happy to introduce a separate amendment dealing with Sections 5, 6, and 7 in the Senate Powers thread.
Logged
Marokai Backbeat
Marokai Blue
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 17,489
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.42, S: -7.39


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2015, 03:20:54 pm »

I think there's room for bicameralism, especially with one of the houses being formed by the regions in some way which people have been arguing for in one form or another since like 2008, and I support the idea in theory, but the devil is in the details.
Logged
Lumine
LumineVonReuental
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11,354
Chile
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2015, 03:29:13 pm »

I don't feel the problem with bicameralism is the number of offices, it's the legislative process.

Look, there are constant complains of the Senate legislative process being slow and "byzantine" to some, and considering the lenght of the terms it takes time to get things done. Wouldn't having two legislative chambers to debate the bills just slow down the legislative process too much?
Logged
Senator Cris
Cris
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5,539
Italy



Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2015, 03:30:16 pm »

I object to the Truman's amendment, only because Sections 5, 6, 7 of this Article are being discussed in another thread.

If my fellow delegates would prefer, I would be happy to introduce a separate amendment dealing with Sections 5, 6, and 7 in the Senate Powers thread.
I think it would be fine.
Should I interpretate that as a withdraw of your amendment and then a new amendment to wipe Sections 1, 2, 3, 4?
Logged
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Politician
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 10,341


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2015, 04:24:57 pm »

I object to the Truman's amendment, only because Sections 5, 6, 7 of this Article are being discussed in another thread.

If my fellow delegates would prefer, I would be happy to introduce a separate amendment dealing with Sections 5, 6, and 7 in the Senate Powers thread.
I think it would be fine.
Should I interpretate that as a withdraw of your amendment and then a new amendment to wipe Sections 1, 2, 3, 4?

Yes, I withdraw my first amendment and introduce this one in its stead:

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Logged
Senator Cris
Cris
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5,539
Italy



Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2015, 04:36:17 pm »

Delegates have 24 hours to object to the new Truman's amendment.
Logged
Associate Justice PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28,850
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2015, 05:25:44 pm »

We can definitely accommodate bicameralism in the new game - as I have explained like fifty-eight times at this point - but it will require firm regulation as to how many (legislative) offices each region can have at a given time, preferably through a formula that reduces the number of legislators for a region if it becomes either too small or too large as a percentage of the game's population.

Something like:

Idea #1 (My Favorite Idea)
  • <25% of the game's population = 3 Legislators
  • 25-40% of the game's population = 5 Legislators
  • >40% of the game's population = 3 Legislators

     Formula approach is nice, but it would probably benefit from also depending on the size of the country. Say, make the number of Legislators relate to the number of voters in the last Presidential election.
Logged
Senator Cris
Cris
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5,539
Italy



Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2015, 10:43:06 am »

The amendment has been adopted.
Logged
Senator Cris
Cris
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5,539
Italy



Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2015, 12:20:22 pm »

When speaking of Senate, this is my preferred plan:

- 3 regions;
- 7 Senate seats: 3 per region and 1 elected At-Large.

At-Large elections for 5 seats are one of the evils of this game. At-Large elections for 1 seat are one of the most beautiful things of this game, so this is my preferred plan.
Logged
Fmr. Pres. Duke
AHDuke99
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21,268


Political Matrix
E: -0.84, S: -3.04

P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2015, 02:19:13 pm »

6 member senate and a 9-11 member House of Representatives. One elected entirely at large and the other entirely at the regional level. We've had this plan in place for years. Now is the time to implement it.
Logged
Talleyrand
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,275


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2015, 03:22:43 pm »

Bicameralism is totally unsustainable (and I say this as someone who thinks it would be enjoyable), and we need to be cutting down the number of offices, not increasing them.

I have two proposals here.

If we are going with 3 regions-

3 regional Senators in Class A elected with the president.

6 district Senators (2 per region) elected in Class B midterms.

If we are going with 2 regions.

4 district senators (2 per region) elected with the President.

5 at-large Senators elected in the Class B midterms.

Logged
Fmr. Pres. Duke
AHDuke99
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21,268


Political Matrix
E: -0.84, S: -3.04

P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2015, 03:27:31 pm »

The plan that implements a bicameral government does not increase the amount of offices. I wrote a full memo explaining this years ago. I'd never advocate any system where we increase the number of offices. We have too many already.
Logged
Talleyrand
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,275


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2015, 03:54:19 pm »

The plan that implements a bicameral government does not increase the amount of offices. I wrote a full memo explaining this years ago. I'd never advocate any system where we increase the number of offices. We have too many already.

Alright, but remind me how big of a change that would create again (I don't really remember). The plan I've proposed would create somewhere between 24-30 offices total.

The other issue with bicameralism is that with such a big federal government, you might see the same bills stay bogged down in the legislature for a long period of time over technicalities. I do like the idea of some organized partisanship or the like, but I feel like it would be hard to work through in this game.
Logged
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Politician
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 10,341


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2015, 03:57:02 pm »

As much as I think bicameralism would be fun, I worry that it would slow the legislative process while only minimally reducing the number of offices.
Logged
Associate Justice PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28,850
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2015, 04:02:16 pm »

As much as I think bicameralism would be fun, I worry that it would slow the legislative process while only minimally reducing the number of offices.

     It's not like we're in a hurry to push through bills dealing with real crises. Slowing the legislative process is alright if it makes the game more fun.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 ... 14 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length
Logout

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

© Dave Leip's Atlas of U.S. Elections, LLC