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  Structure, size and elections of Senate/House (Debating)
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Author Topic: Structure, size and elections of Senate/House (Debating)  (Read 23574 times)
tmthforu94
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« Reply #225 on: November 19, 2015, 07:49:45 pm »

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No.
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Well, if we are doing the Senate via regions, I would be open to electing these seats via at-large.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #226 on: November 19, 2015, 10:08:48 pm »

Damn it, I was a couple hours too late.


I think At-Large is the best option for an obvious reason. Getting enough candidates for nine one an one elections would be a nightmare as you would need at least 18 candidates to make the thing work. What is worse, you would have to pull those candidates from a narrow tract of voters making it even more difficult. There is just no feasible or practical way to elect a 9 member house from a district based system.

At-Large allows you to pull from the entire nation, you can have a competative election with 12 to 15 candidates, and there will be greater ability to compete because you find your best voters anywhere in the country as opposed to just a handful of states.

Assuming I am doing my math right, the quota would be 12 under STV assuming 120 votes and 10 votes at 100 voters. Such a low threshold would mean you almost always have an opening for at least one independent House member, if not more. Granted, we might go with a different system, but STV works a lot better at 9 or 11 seats than it does at 5.
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Chromium R Florida
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« Reply #227 on: November 20, 2015, 06:52:00 am »

Yay, let's have only marginally-predictable elections with a 9-member chamber instead of entirely-predictable elections with a 5 or 7-member chamber. Roll Eyes

And why is everyone now talking about variable-sized chambers? We just had a principle vote on the size of the chamber. It's over.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #228 on: November 20, 2015, 06:18:46 pm »

     I like at-large elections for the House, but we should think about the possibility of not electing it all at once. There are lots of possibilities here, so let's not hem it in.
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Leinad
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« Reply #229 on: November 21, 2015, 05:17:44 am »

I like PiT's idea to not elect them all at once. Maybe split it into 3 classes of 3 members, and if the number changes we can either have different-numbered classes (like how one of the US Senate's classes is 34 and the others are 33) or if, say, it's for 3-month terms and we have 10, we can have 4-winner elections each time, but 4th-place only gets a third of a term and is up next election.

Just throwing stuff at the convention wall to see what sticks.

And why is everyone now talking about variable-sized chambers? We just had a principle vote on the size of the chamber. It's over.

The point of the convention isn't to set a number to end all numbers, and leave it there for all eternity. The point of the convention is to bring more activity and interest to Atlasia, so when it comes to choosing the number of seats in a chamber it needs to be based on how many seats one forum-based elections game can sustain. Activity fluctuates, and even if it didn't it's hard to choose the Magic Number without seeing how things work, so why on earth would we want to set it to something we can't change without passing a constitutional amendment? It would make much more sense to have it naturally adjust to the activity.

And saying "we already had a vote" makes no sense when this option wasn't included, and wasn't even suggested until after the vote started. (Also, this is another example of the painfully annoying tendency of people to shoot down any debate simply because their prefered choice is the current status quo.)
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #230 on: November 21, 2015, 08:01:32 am »

I don't think we should let the number of seats in the House to fluctuate in proportion to the number of candidates.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #231 on: November 21, 2015, 12:28:59 pm »

I would prefer that the entire House be elected every two months. In order for bicameralism to have a meaningful effect on the game (beyond making it harder to pass legislation), the structure of the two houses needs to be significantly different. If we expand House terms to 3 months and divide it into two Classes, we're left with a lower house that is essentially a slightly larger version of the Senate. A two month term, combined with a single class of Representatives, ensures that the lower house will quickly respond to shifts in the electorate, with the Senate balancing these shifts against the rights of the Regions.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #232 on: November 22, 2015, 03:43:15 pm »

A vote is now open on the following proposals. Voting will last 48 hours or until all delegates have voted.

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Oakvale
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« Reply #233 on: November 22, 2015, 03:44:30 pm »

Abstain, at-large
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Chief Justice windjammer
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« Reply #234 on: November 22, 2015, 03:51:05 pm »

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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #235 on: November 22, 2015, 03:53:34 pm »

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Clark Kent
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« Reply #236 on: November 22, 2015, 04:07:56 pm »

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bore
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« Reply #237 on: November 22, 2015, 04:29:51 pm »

No, At large
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MadmanMotley
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« Reply #238 on: November 22, 2015, 05:03:32 pm »

[quote]
OFFICIAL BALLOT
Principle Vote on Fluctuating House Membership
Should the number of seats in the House of Representatives fluctuate in proportion to the number of candidates in the most recent election?
[   ] YES
[X] NO
[   ] Abstain

Principle Vote on House Elections
How should the House of Representatives be elected? (Please use STV)
[3] At-Large
[2] Regionally
[1] From Districts
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NeverAgain
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« Reply #239 on: November 22, 2015, 05:41:32 pm »

Should the number of seats in the House of Representatives fluctuate in proportion to the number of candidates in the most recent election?
[ X ] YES
[   ] NO
[   ] Abstain

Principle Vote on House Elections
How should the House of Representatives be elected? (Please use STV)
[ 1 ] At-Large
[ 2 ] Regionally
[ 3 ] From Districts
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #240 on: November 22, 2015, 05:46:41 pm »

[quote]
OFFICIAL BALLOT
Principle Vote on Fluctuating House Membership
Should the number of seats in the House of Representatives fluctuate in proportion to the number of candidates in the most recent election?
[   ] YES
[X] NO
[   ] Abstain

Principle Vote on House Elections
How should the House of Representatives be elected? (Please use STV)
[1] At-Large
[2] Regionally
[3] From Districts
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Clyde1998
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« Reply #241 on: November 22, 2015, 05:48:21 pm »

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VPH
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« Reply #242 on: November 22, 2015, 06:15:27 pm »

OFFICIAL BALLOT
Principle Vote on Fluctuating House Membership
Should the number of seats in the House of Representatives fluctuate in proportion to the number of candidates in the most recent election?
[  ] YES
[ X ] NO
[   ] Abstain

Principle Vote on House Elections
How should the House of Representatives be elected? (Please use STV)
[  3 ] At-Large
[ 1  ] Regionally
[ 2  ] From Districts
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MyRescueKittehRocks
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« Reply #243 on: November 22, 2015, 06:25:51 pm »


OFFICIAL BALLOT
Principle Vote on Fluctuating House Membership
Should the number of seats in the House of Representatives fluctuate in proportion to the number of candidates in the most recent election?
[  ] YES
[ X ] NO
[   ] Abstain

Principle Vote on House Elections
How should the House of Representatives be elected? (Please use STV)
[ 3 ] At-Large
[ 1 ] Regionally
[ 2 ] From Districts
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #244 on: November 22, 2015, 06:39:53 pm »

No, at large
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Leinad
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« Reply #245 on: November 22, 2015, 06:47:03 pm »

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I don't get why almost everyone's voting against the fluctuating seat proposal. The idea wasn't to pick a number and set it, completely ignoring actual activity results post-convention, but to have the right number to allow for competitive, exciting elections. This is the way to do that.

What if we miscalculate and 9 is too much, or too little? This is the way to keep that from happening. If we don't allow for variable seats, we're just stuck with the number whether it works or not. Hopefully we got it right, and this faith everyone's placing in the number 9 is justified, but I'm skeptical.
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Lincoln Republican
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« Reply #246 on: November 22, 2015, 10:40:38 pm »

No

At-Large
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SUSAN CRUSHBONE
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« Reply #247 on: November 23, 2015, 01:11:26 am »

abstain

1 from districts
2 at large
3 regionally
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Chromium R Florida
Adam Griffin
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« Reply #248 on: November 23, 2015, 02:16:27 am »

No, at-large
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #249 on: November 23, 2015, 03:05:25 am »

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