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  Powers of federal govt (Senate) and of regional govts. (Debating)
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Author Topic: Powers of federal govt (Senate) and of regional govts. (Debating)  (Read 15824 times)
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
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« Reply #125 on: November 03, 2015, 07:13:12 pm »

I can understand why some people might object to the energy policy and medical care parts of my proposal; I am bemused, however, as to why anyone would oppose having a federal minimum wage, or to having a national bank.

As conservatives are so fond of point out, Regions unilaterally raising and lowering the minimum wage will cause wages and employment to plummet, as companies will inevitably move their base of operations to the Region with the lowest minimum wage. The only way to prevent that is to have a national minimum wage that is the same in every Region. (If there is anyone who thinks that we should abolish the minimum wage entirely, I would remind them of the Gilded Age as an excellent example of why this does not work).

Likewise, it is quite obvious that we need some kind of Federal Reserve to keep borrowing and lending from getting out of control. I realize that many conservatives like to lambast the Fed as an evil, job-killing cabal controlled by bankers and lobbyists, but that's not actually how it works. If we deny the federal government the right to establish some kind of national bank, I guarantee that the economy will crash before the end of the next decade.
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MyRescueKittehRocks
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« Reply #126 on: November 03, 2015, 07:34:03 pm »

I can understand why some people might object to the energy policy and medical care parts of my proposal; I am bemused, however, as to why anyone would oppose having a federal minimum wage, or to having a national bank.

As conservatives are so fond of point out, Regions unilaterally raising and lowering the minimum wage will cause wages and employment to plummet, as companies will inevitably move their base of operations to the Region with the lowest minimum wage. The only way to prevent that is to have a national minimum wage that is the same in every Region. (If there is anyone who thinks that we should abolish the minimum wage entirely, I would remind them of the Gilded Age as an excellent example of why this does not work).

Likewise, it is quite obvious that we need some kind of Federal Reserve to keep borrowing and lending from getting out of control. I realize that many conservatives like to lambast the Fed as an evil, job-killing cabal controlled by bankers and lobbyists, but that's not actually how it works. If we deny the federal government the right to establish some kind of national bank, I guarantee that the economy will crash before the end of the next decade.

I'm not exactly a fan of minimum wage but I'm looking at this convention with severe skepticism towards giving the federal government more power than what was given in the 2009 constitutional convention.

As for a centralized federal bank, I have some serious concerns about having one. Look at the Federal Reserve (irl). If the Atlasian one had some strict mechanisms requiring transparency I would be open to it. A full reforming of our governmental financial system would need regulations like Audit the Fed or Glass Steegal to prevent or minimize any possibility of graft and corruption. Also a mandate requiring the House (where all financial bills start from) and the Senate to balance the budget
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NeverAgain
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« Reply #127 on: November 03, 2015, 09:45:33 pm »

I can understand why some people might object to the energy policy and medical care parts of my proposal; I am bemused, however, as to why anyone would oppose having a federal minimum wage, or to having a national bank.

As conservatives are so fond of point out, Regions unilaterally raising and lowering the minimum wage will cause wages and employment to plummet, as companies will inevitably move their base of operations to the Region with the lowest minimum wage. The only way to prevent that is to have a national minimum wage that is the same in every Region. (If there is anyone who thinks that we should abolish the minimum wage entirely, I would remind them of the Gilded Age as an excellent example of why this does not work).

Likewise, it is quite obvious that we need some kind of Federal Reserve to keep borrowing and lending from getting out of control. I realize that many conservatives like to lambast the Fed as an evil, job-killing cabal controlled by bankers and lobbyists, but that's not actually how it works. If we deny the federal government the right to establish some kind of national bank, I guarantee that the economy will crash before the end of the next decade.

I'm not exactly a fan of minimum wage but I'm looking at this convention with severe skepticism towards giving the federal government more power than what was given in the 2009 constitutional convention.

As for a centralized federal bank, I have some serious concerns about having one. Look at the Federal Reserve (irl). If the Atlasian one had some strict mechanisms requiring transparency I would be open to it. A full reforming of our governmental financial system would need regulations like Audit the Fed or Glass Steegal to prevent or minimize any possibility of graft and corruption. Also a mandate requiring the House (where all financial bills start from) and the Senate to balance the budget

A Mandated Balanced Budget would not work. If every congress, we were forced to cut important government programs to safe a couple dollars here or there, just for the sake of the "deficit", it would be lunacy. Now don't get me wrong, we should control our deficit, but not mandate it in our constitution. The constitution is about what is doing best for the people, not abandoning good plans for the betterment of Atlasia because we project a deficit.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #128 on: November 03, 2015, 11:19:45 pm »

     My concern with Truman's proposal is the redundancy involved. Setting a minimum wage is covered by the commerce clause IIRC; not including it as an explicit power of the federal government isn't going to stop us from having one.
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MyRescueKittehRocks
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« Reply #129 on: November 04, 2015, 12:02:17 am »

     My concern with Truman's proposal is the redundancy involved. Setting a minimum wage is covered by the commerce clause IIRC; not including it as an explicit power of the federal government isn't going to stop us from having one.

How is a minimum wage covered under the commerce clause? Is there US court precedent that interpreted it that way?
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #130 on: November 04, 2015, 02:59:30 am »

We are going to vote on all proposals, not on Truman's and JCL's texts.
So IIRC we'll vote on 19 proposals. But there's still time to propose other powers that should belong only to fed govt.
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MyRescueKittehRocks
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« Reply #131 on: November 04, 2015, 11:44:52 am »

We are going to vote on all proposals, not on Truman's and JCL's texts.
So IIRC we'll vote on 19 proposals. But there's still time to propose other powers that should belong only to fed govt.

Truman and I are proposing seperate yet frameworks to start from. Please don't treat them as mere texts.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #132 on: November 04, 2015, 11:58:32 am »

We are going to vote on all proposals, not on Truman's and JCL's texts.
So IIRC we'll vote on 19 proposals. But there's still time to propose other powers that should belong only to fed govt.

Truman and I are proposing seperate yet frameworks to start from. Please don't treat them as mere texts.
Yes, I'm not treating them as texts, but as simple proposals.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #133 on: November 04, 2015, 05:19:46 pm »

     My concern with Truman's proposal is the redundancy involved. Setting a minimum wage is covered by the commerce clause IIRC; not including it as an explicit power of the federal government isn't going to stop us from having one.

How is a minimum wage covered under the commerce clause? Is there US court precedent that interpreted it that way?

     United States v. Darby (1941) provides for a federal minimum wage, albeit in somewhat restricted circumstances.
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MyRescueKittehRocks
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« Reply #134 on: November 04, 2015, 10:10:50 pm »
« Edited: November 04, 2015, 10:17:18 pm by Assemblyman JCL and the geologist »

    My concern with Truman's proposal is the redundancy involved. Setting a minimum wage is covered by the commerce clause IIRC; not including it as an explicit power of the federal government isn't going to stop us from having one.

How is a minimum wage covered under the commerce clause? Is there US court precedent that interpreted it that way?

     United States v. Darby (1941) provides for a federal minimum wage, albeit in somewhat restricted circumstances.

The decision got unanimous support from the court. Both conservatives and progressive justices which is impressive of a feat.
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President Griffin
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« Reply #135 on: November 04, 2015, 11:21:22 pm »

Does anybody (who is not opposed to the concept as a matter of principle) think that we need to add something to this that clarifies the ability for the government to regulate regional legislative seat allocation based on its population? Currently, it's in the document, but...
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #136 on: November 05, 2015, 04:44:06 am »

     My concern with Truman's proposal is the redundancy involved. Setting a minimum wage is covered by the commerce clause IIRC; not including it as an explicit power of the federal government isn't going to stop us from having one.

And the Fed as well would be covered under the financial regulation clause if not the currency one.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #137 on: November 05, 2015, 04:46:02 am »

Does anybody (who is not opposed to the concept as a matter of principle) think that we need to add something to this that clarifies the ability for the government to regulate regional legislative seat allocation based on its population? Currently, it's in the document, but...


Probaby so I would imagine.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #138 on: November 05, 2015, 05:29:27 pm »

Does anybody (who is not opposed to the concept as a matter of principle) think that we need to add something to this that clarifies the ability for the government to regulate regional legislative seat allocation based on its population? Currently, it's in the document, but...


Probaby so I would imagine.

    Isn't the point to be vague now and clarify in statute? That's what I've been gathering here.
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Senator Cris
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« Reply #139 on: November 06, 2015, 08:52:48 am »
« Edited: November 07, 2015, 02:47:33 pm by Speaker Cris »

A 48-hours vote is now open.

Should the following powers be granted to the federal government?
Remember that all remaining powers (those not granted to federal government) will be granted to regional governments.

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tmthforu94
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« Reply #140 on: November 06, 2015, 02:43:16 pm »

1. AYE
2. AYE
3. AYE
4. AYE
5. AYE
6. AYE
7. AYE
8. AYE
9. AYE
10. AYE
11. AYE
12. AYE
13. AYE
14. AYE
15. AYE
16. AYE
17. AYE
18. AYE
19. AYE
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
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« Reply #141 on: November 06, 2015, 02:54:57 pm »

1. AYE
2. AYE
3. AYE
4. AYE
5. AYE
6. AYE
7. AYE
8. AYE
9. AYE
10. AYE
11. AYE
12. AYE
13. AYE
14. AYE
15. AYE
16. AYE
17. AYE
18. AYE
19. AYE
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Lincoln Republican
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« Reply #142 on: November 06, 2015, 03:51:30 pm »

Aye to all with the exception of 14

14.  Nay

Minimum wage should be set by the regions for their own region
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #143 on: November 06, 2015, 04:37:24 pm »

Aye to all with the exception of 14

14.  Nay

Minimum wage should be set by the regions for their own region
That's all right in theory, but in reality this will only drive down wages. Regional politicians gunning for a short-term drop in unemployment will seek to pass lower and lower minimum wage laws, creating a cycle where other Regions have to lower their minimum wage to stay competitive. A national standard is the only way to go on this issue.
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bore
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« Reply #144 on: November 06, 2015, 05:12:21 pm »

1. AYE
2. AYE
3. AYE
4. AYE
5. AYE
6. AYE
7. AYE
8. AYE
9. AYE
10. AYE
11. AYE
12. AYE
13. AYE
14. AYE
15. AYE
16. AYE
17. AYE
18. AYE
19. AYE
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MadmanMotley
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« Reply #145 on: November 07, 2015, 12:46:54 am »

1. AYE
2. AYE
3. AYE
4. AYE
5. AYE
6. AYE
7. AYE
8. AYE
9. AYE
10. AYE
11. AYE
12. AYE
13. AYE

14. NAY
15. AYE
16. AYE
17. AYE
18. AYE
19. AYE

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MyRescueKittehRocks
JohanusCalvinusLibertas
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« Reply #146 on: November 07, 2015, 12:56:55 am »


1. AYE
2. AYE
3. AYE
4. AYE
5. AYE
6. AYE
7. AYE
8. AYE
9. AYE
10. AYE
11. NAY
12. NAY
13. NAY
14. NAY
15. AYE
16. AYE
17. NAY
18. AYE
19. AYE

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Negusa Nagast 🚀
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« Reply #147 on: November 07, 2015, 01:02:03 am »

1. AYE
2. AYE
3. AYE
4. AYE
5. AYE
6. AYE
7. AYE
8. AYE
9. AYE
10. AYE
11. AYE
12. AYE
13. AYE
14. AYE
15. AYE
16. AYE
17. AYE
18. AYE
19. AYE
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Prince of Salem
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« Reply #148 on: November 07, 2015, 01:16:10 am »

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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #149 on: November 07, 2015, 04:22:24 am »

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