Canada General Discussion: Trudeau II

[warandwar]

Speaking for myself, I don't care about these 'hereditary chiefs.'  There is a reason that the 'divine right of kings' was done away with, and this situation is no different.

I don't care about these "representatives" of a "community" who say it's their "native" "land." My government committed a lot of genocides  to get it - that means we can do whatever we want to it!

Really, this situation is no different? The bourgeois democratic revolutions of the 1700s-1800s are "no different" than settlers pillaging their way through unceded Wet'suwet'en land in 2019?

[136or142]

Speaking for myself, I don't care about these 'hereditary chiefs.'  There is a reason that the 'divine right of kings' was done away with, and this situation is no different.

I don't care about these "representatives" of a "community" who say it's their "native" "land." My government committed a lot of genocides  to get it - that means we can do whatever we want to it!

Really, this situation is no different? The bourgeois democratic revolutions of the 1700s-1800s are "no different" than settlers pillaging their way through unceded Wet'suwet'en land in 2019?

"Bourgeois democracy" yawn.  Sure thing, Stalin.

[warandwar]

Speaking for myself, I don't care about these 'hereditary chiefs.'  There is a reason that the 'divine right of kings' was done away with, and this situation is no different.

I don't care about these "representatives" of a "community" who say it's their "native" "land." My government committed a lot of genocides  to get it - that means we can do whatever we want to it!

Really, this situation is no different? The bourgeois democratic revolutions of the 1700s-1800s are "no different" than settlers pillaging their way through unceded Wet'suwet'en land in 2019?

"Bourgeois democracy" yawn.  Sure thing, Stalin.

?? Read a history book - it's what they were - the third estate led the revolutions (French, American, &c) that ended divine-right monarchies.

[136or142]

Speaking for myself, I don't care about these 'hereditary chiefs.'  There is a reason that the 'divine right of kings' was done away with, and this situation is no different.

I don't care about these "representatives" of a "community" who say it's their "native" "land." My government committed a lot of genocides  to get it - that means we can do whatever we want to it!

Really, this situation is no different? The bourgeois democratic revolutions of the 1700s-1800s are "no different" than settlers pillaging their way through unceded Wet'suwet'en land in 2019?

"Bourgeois democracy" yawn.  Sure thing, Stalin.

?? Read a history book - it's what they were - the third estate led the revolutions (French, American, &c) that ended divine-right monarchies.

Sure, and then the franchise was steadily expanded and so were respect for human rights.  What gives these hereditary chiefs any authority and how are these unelected leaders any different than kings or even dictators?

The elected chiefs have all come to agreements with the company.  It's easy for these hereditary chiefs to oppose everything since they don't have to stand for election or accomplish anything.

Do you support divine right monarchies?  Do you think indigenous people support divine right monarchies or that they are any less likely to want a say in how their communities are run?

[warandwar]

Speaking for myself, I don't care about these 'hereditary chiefs.'  There is a reason that the 'divine right of kings' was done away with, and this situation is no different.

I don't care about these "representatives" of a "community" who say it's their "native" "land." My government committed a lot of genocides  to get it - that means we can do whatever we want to it!

Really, this situation is no different? The bourgeois democratic revolutions of the 1700s-1800s are "no different" than settlers pillaging their way through unceded Wet'suwet'en land in 2019?

"Bourgeois democracy" yawn.  Sure thing, Stalin.

?? Read a history book - it's what they were - the third estate led the revolutions (French, American, &c) that ended divine-right monarchies.

Sure, and then the franchise was steadily expanded and so were respect for human rights.  What gives these hereditary chiefs any authority and how are these unelected leaders any different than kings or even dictators?

The elected chiefs have all come to agreements with the company.  It's easy for these hereditary chiefs to oppose everything since they don't have to stand for election or accomplish anything.

Do you support divine right monarchies?  Do you think indigenous people support divine right monarchies or that they are any less likely to want a say in how their communities are run?

Not sure expansion of the franchise went alongside respect for human rights in a linear fashion! Many bumps in that road, I say that as a Jew...


Do you think the Wet'suwet'en are suffering under the yoke of dictators? Were the RCMP acting as liberators? C'mon bruh... saying traditional chiefs are dictators, when they're the ones who've got the barrels pointed at them...

Anyways, Most of your questions can be answered by this video.

Anyways

[warandwar]

Speaking for myself, I don't care about these 'hereditary chiefs.'  There is a reason that the 'divine right of kings' was done away with, and this situation is no different.

I don't care about these "representatives" of a "community" who say it's their "native" "land." My government committed a lot of genocides  to get it - that means we can do whatever we want to it!

Really, this situation is no different? The bourgeois democratic revolutions of the 1700s-1800s are "no different" than settlers pillaging their way through unceded Wet'suwet'en land in 2019?

"Bourgeois democracy" yawn.  Sure thing, Stalin.

?? Read a history book - it's what they were - the third estate led the revolutions (French, American, &c) that ended divine-right monarchies.

Sure, and then the franchise was steadily expanded and so were respect for human rights.  What gives these hereditary chiefs any authority and how are these unelected leaders any different than kings or even dictators?

The elected chiefs have all come to agreements with the company.  It's easy for these hereditary chiefs to oppose everything since they don't have to stand for election or accomplish anything.

Do you support divine right monarchies?  Do you think indigenous people support divine right monarchies or that they are any less likely to want a say in how their communities are run?

Not sure expansion of the franchise went alongside respect for human rights in a linear fashion! Many bumps in that road, I say that as a Jew...


Do you think the Wet'suwet'en are suffering under the yoke of dictators? Were the RCMP acting as liberators? C'mon bruh... saying traditional chiefs are dictators, when they're the ones who've got the barrels pointed at them...

Anyways, Most of your questions can be answered by this video and these articles
 

[136or142]

Speaking for myself, I don't care about these 'hereditary chiefs.'  There is a reason that the 'divine right of kings' was done away with, and this situation is no different.

I don't care about these "representatives" of a "community" who say it's their "native" "land." My government committed a lot of genocides  to get it - that means we can do whatever we want to it!

Really, this situation is no different? The bourgeois democratic revolutions of the 1700s-1800s are "no different" than settlers pillaging their way through unceded Wet'suwet'en land in 2019?

"Bourgeois democracy" yawn.  Sure thing, Stalin.

?? Read a history book - it's what they were - the third estate led the revolutions (French, American, &c) that ended divine-right monarchies.

Sure, and then the franchise was steadily expanded and so were respect for human rights.  What gives these hereditary chiefs any authority and how are these unelected leaders any different than kings or even dictators?

The elected chiefs have all come to agreements with the company.  It's easy for these hereditary chiefs to oppose everything since they don't have to stand for election or accomplish anything.

Do you support divine right monarchies?  Do you think indigenous people support divine right monarchies or that they are any less likely to want a say in how their communities are run?

Not sure expansion of the franchise went alongside respect for human rights in a linear fashion! Many bumps in that road, I say that as a Jew...


Do you think the Wet'suwet'en are suffering under the yoke of dictators? Were the RCMP acting as liberators? C'mon bruh... saying traditional chiefs are dictators, when they're the ones who've got the barrels pointed at them...

Anyways, Most of your questions can be answered by this video.

Anyways

1.I don't know if the hereditary chiefs are considered to be dictators by the people they claim to represent or not since they don't have to face elections.

2.I don't know what the Supreme Court would say about hereditary chiefs these days. Since 1997 there has been a great deal of effort at reconciliation between indigenous peoples and British Columbia and the principle of representative elected band councils and chiefs seems to be generally accepted.  The indigenous people themselves also seem to clearly want elected representatives and not chiefs who claim some divine right.

[warandwar]

I really don't know why you keep calling hereditary chiefs "divine right" dude - it's just not what they are...I was an anthropology major - give me some credit here! (it's true that they're not elected in the "every four years, vote in a designated place" sense, but they're chosen through consensus at potlachs and can be recalled...)

hereditary chiefs have authority over unceded traditional land, court precedent (and UNDRIP!) points to consulting w/ hereditary chiefs as well as band councils, and Trudeau's government has stated they want to move to consulting w/ First Nations on a "nation-to-nation" basis - aside from all of this - a militarized response was clearly inappropriate and brings back bad memories of Lake Gustafson and Oka...

[136or142]

I really don't know why you keep calling hereditary chiefs "divine right" dude - it's just not what they are...I was an anthropology major - give me some credit here! (it's true that they're not elected in the "every four years, vote in a designated place" sense, but they're chosen through consensus at potlachs and can be recalled...)

hereditary chiefs have authority over unceded traditional land, court precedent (and UNDRIP!) points to consulting w/ hereditary chiefs as well as band councils, and Trudeau's government has stated they want to move to consulting w/ First Nations on a "nation-to-nation" basis - aside from all of this - a militarized response was clearly inappropriate and brings back bad memories of Lake Gustafson and Oka...

1.Hereditary chiefdom is passed down as an heir: just like a king.

http://fngovernance.org/resources_docs/TraditionalGovernance_Wetsuweten2.pdf

2."Militarized response" i.e maintaining the rule of law. This is a situation of hereditary chiefs claiming to speak on behalf of an area of land who are responsible to nobody and who have therefore have no incentive to negotiate or otherwise act responsibly.  

It has certainly been shown to not be the case that these hereditary chiefs speak on behalf of even the majority of the people on the land.  One thing mentioned in that link is the 'father clan' vs the 'mother clan' and how the 'father clan' is favored.  There was a Supreme Court decision just a few years ago striking down the preferential treatment given to children of the male member of indigenous tribes when an indigenous person marries a non native.

https://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1467227680166/1467227697623

With obviously recognizing the gross mistreatment indigenous people have received, that does not negate that indigenous people are not above nepotism, sexism or obstructionism among other negative things and that these things are more likely to occur when you have hereditary chiefs who, in fact, are no different than divine right kings.

[Smid]

I just read of Paul Dewar's passing, another life taken too soon by cancer. May he rest in peace. Thinking of his family at this terribly tough time for them.

Edit: If I recall correctly, EarlAW used to be active on his riding committee, and perhaps would care to share a memory or two with us.

[DC Al Fine]

Trudeau under fire over claim he pressured justice minister to intervene in SNC-Lavalin fraud case

[RogueBeaver]

Yuge: JWR resigns from Cabinet due to SNC. Don Martin reported an emergency Cabinet meeting happening this afternoon.

https://twitter.com/InklessPW/status/1095361380109045760

[DabbingSanta]

https://twitter.com/MaximeBernier/status/1095333349227409408

https://twitter.com/MaximeBernier/status/1095378261096378368

Mad Max....... Why would you say this?? Not the right kind of attention the PPC needs.

[Obama-Biden Democrat]

https://twitter.com/MaximeBernier/status/1095333349227409408

https://twitter.com/MaximeBernier/status/1095378261096378368

Mad Max....... Why would you say this?? Not the right kind of attention the PPC needs.

High energy guy!

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

Trudeau under fire over claim he pressured justice minister to intervene in SNC-Lavalin fraud case

He was pretty vehement in his denial so either it's true or he thinks they covered up enough of their tracks. If someone has a smoking gun, he's probably finished.

[mileslunn]

https://twitter.com/MaximeBernier/status/1095333349227409408

https://twitter.com/MaximeBernier/status/1095378261096378368

Mad Max....... Why would you say this?? Not the right kind of attention the PPC needs.

He has no chance of winning, he wants to appeal to 5-10% of the population who are racists so he is going after that group.  I don't think his goal is to ever be PM, rather he is bitter he lost the Conservative leadership race and so wants to ensure Scheer never becomes PM thus laying a trap for him; stay moderate and risk a split on the right like the 90s, or move rightward to appeal to PPC supporters and scare away the key swing voters he needs to win.

[DC Al Fine]

Trudeau under fire over claim he pressured justice minister to intervene in SNC-Lavalin fraud case

He was pretty vehement in his denial so either it's true or he thinks they covered up enough of their tracks. If someone has a smoking gun, he's probably finished.

Yes, that is the $1,000,000 question.

Also, the scandal broke a week ago, and we still don't have any polls. Very irritating.

[DC Al Fine]

First post scandal poll is out from Campaign Research

Conservative: 37%
Liberal: 32%
NDP: 14%
Green: 7%
Bloc: 5%
People's: 3%

Large change from pre-scandal polling but not a major shift from the last Campaign Research poll, which had the Liberals and Tories statistically tied.

[RogueBeaver]

Butts resigned yesterday. https://twitter.com/sunlorrie/status/1097889945346142210

[Lumine]

It seems the minister who resigned dropped the bomb: Trudeau refuses to resign over claims officials interfered in bribery prosecution.

Asking out of ignorance, can Trudeau survive without his government being crippled or could the pressure lead to his actual resignation/implosion?

[DC Al Fine]

It seems the minister who resigned dropped the bomb: Trudeau refuses to resign over claims officials interfered in bribery prosecution.

Asking out of ignorance, can Trudeau survive without his government being crippled or could the pressure lead to his actual resignation/implosion?

We're only eight months from a scheduled election, so I suspect he stays on. He has a majority in parliament and Canada doesn't have as much of a history parties of knifing their own leaders like say Australia.

[DC Al Fine]

To add to my previous comment, the PM is in deep, deep trouble, and could still resign if things get bad enough. I still think he stays on until at least E-day. Time to wait and see.

[RogueBeaver]

https://twitter.com/ty_olsen/status/1101205162947796992

[Suburbia]

I think Trudeau will win another federal term as Prime Minister, or in Beltway/Westminster speak: The Liberal Party will win another term, or keep seats.

[RogueBeaver]

https://twitter.com/janephilpott/status/1102660614307172352