Confirmation of Bacon King as Justice (Debating)

[Classic Conservative]

We can also see here ladies and gentleman that the so called supports of the working class are scared of the truth and scared of people waking up from this la-la land that they have been falsely accusing senators and other distinguished members of the Regional and Federal Government just beacuse they disagree politically.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

With all due respect Senator Truman, the world does not revolve around you. I believe Patriot Talleyrand is referring to Senator Strom Thurmond and Senator PiT.

Senator Talleyrand's post was a poor attempt to categorically dismiss his political opponents as obsolete dinosaurs. Clearly, this is counterfactual hogwash, as several new citizens (such as myself) have expressed reservations over this nomination and several older users (such as Mr. Talleyrand) have supported it. I don't take such silly attacks personally, but the Atlasian people deserve to hear the truth.

[Maxwell]

We can also see here ladies and gentleman that the so called supports of the working class are scared of the truth and scared of people waking up from this la-la land that they have been falsely accusing senators and other distinguished members of the Regional and Federal Government just beacuse they disagree politically.

That couldn't be further from the truth. I'm supporting the most qualified nominee in history because of his qualifications and his knowledge, your crew is performing a witch hunt, the likes of which we haven't seen. I can't tell you how many way worse nominees we've just let through this body, and thanks to the same crew that smells suspicion just because the great Justice Oakvale wants to end his tenure on his own terms. The truth is simple. The political theater on your side is much more complicated.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     While Bacon King is a fine fellow with strong qualifications, there are nevertheless legitimate concerns over Bacon King's record on this forum that I have touched on, along with Senators Truman and Yankee and Governor tmth. My colleagues are free to argue in favor of Bacon King's confirmation, but it is not productive to pretend that those concerns are not legitimate.

[Barnes]

I must ask that the Speaker restore some order in the Senate!

Non-senators are fully entitled to take their comments to the appropriate threads, but I don't think it reflects well on us to have a free-for-all in this thread.  The same goes for all members of this body who are at present snipping at one another.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

First off, not one damn message has been sent by me or anyone else that I know of making mention of BK's personal life. Especially, after the dreadful treatment I received during the worst year of my life, by the some of the esteemed troll players in this thread, I would not ever go to that length.

Every matter that has been discussed has dealt with BK's competence to serve as an effective and independent Justice. I would invite those who insist on lying about this, to accept my invitation to (TOS Compliance Censor).

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

There's also the obvious fact that we're clearly going to do away with life terms in the ConCon so cool your jets, folks.

What more do you expect from these clowns???

 Since they have gotten their behinds handed to them on every issue of substance ever since they joined the game ten-odd years ago, they are now impugning the character of one of our most respected public servants. What a JOKE!!!

LOL!

I've heard some absurd claims over the course of the last four months, but this one takes the cake. You do realize that Cris has been playing this game for roughly two years and I only joined in January, whereas yourself and Oakvale have been playing for a combined 8 years?

Nobody here is "smearing" Bacon King's character, but I'm not sure why you'd care if they were: if your actions over the last four months are any indication, you like nothing better than to spread falsehoods and libelous rumors about the people you dislike.

It is especially galling considering the smeers and lies that were sent out by Oakfail's machine in his futile attempt to destroy me as a force in this game. Some people have been very naughty and they are lucky I am nice guy to not make that public. This socialist is going to nationalize his power, and shut it off.

There's also the obvious fact that we're clearly going to do away with life terms in the ConCon so cool your jets, folks.

What more do you expect from these clowns???

 Since they have gotten their behinds handed to them on every issue of substance ever since they joined the game ten-odd years ago, they are now impugning the character of one of our most respected public servants. What a JOKE!!!

How is that partisan Senate adminstration working for ya! Oh wait... Or that all At-Large Senate, the left and their troll player allies promised us back in 2009. Or the districts some of the same people said were needed  because At-Large now apparently sucks. And of course there is that little matter of secession, The many attempts to destroy and abolish regions, etc etc.

The courtyard is littered with my prostrate victims and you have the nerve to call me a loser. I have been kicking @%@ for a hell of a long time on a range of issues. What item of substance have you ever won on? You have three times been on the losing side of an issue I won on. You cannot say the same about me.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The McCarthy trio in the Senate does nothing to surprise me anymore. This nominee is among the most qualified in history, and speaks to that experience rather eloquently. I have no questions and will vote for him as promptly as this witch hunt is called to a vote.

Just like Al.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

There's also the obvious fact that we're clearly going to do away with life terms in the ConCon so cool your jets, folks.

That would be a dreadful error on the part of the Con-Con.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Several people have come forward to inform me that you have been privately sharing an edited IRC transcript in an attempted character assassination, failing to provide any semblance of an accurate contact.

Everything I have discussed with my colleagues is stuff you have said, and if you lose confirmation, it will be your own words that hanged you, Mr. Kingman.

On October 25th, you cast a vote in the Northeast Regional Election in favor of the region seceding. You also voted for a slate of candidates who likewise supported secession. Was this vote an "informed" decision on your part?

No, to be perfectly honest with you it was not an informed decision in the slightest.

For several years now, whenever I am faced with a ballot where I have no strong opinion on how to vote (which, to be clear, is a rare occurrence), I'll log in to IRC and take the first good suggestion someone in the chat gives me - I did so for both the Federal and Regional elections in this most recent election. I believe Adam Griffin personally told me to vote for him, and I think it was Talleyrand who told me how to vote in the Northeast but I'm not entirely certain on that because several other were saying the same thing as Talleyrand at the same time.

I recall that you were in chat at the time, and I would have probably taken your suggestion if you spoke first, because I trust your judgement, and I recall at least two times in the past when I did vote by your suggestion when I asked in IRC.

Adam Griffin asked you to vote for Blair. I figured if anyone had a chance of swaying you it would be Griffin. Also, it seemed clear that you were only interested in one person's opinion, as you mentioned Talleyrand by name when asking how to vote and you ignored (in your own words), a long time political ally and fellow Georgian, and voted down the line for the pro-secession slate recommended.

Let me correct the record now - yes it's unorthodox but it's no different than the dozens of voters you and other candidates PM every election. If they trust your judgement, they listen to your electoral recommendations. The only difference with me is that I'm proactive enough to openly solicit requests for campaign materials, in an effort to make a semi-informed decision, even if it is just by proxy.

I found what I saw in #Atlasforum sickening. From people asking the notorious echo chamber how to vote, to outright lying about results to get someone to vote. 

If it were a vote on assembly and you didn't know the latest count, then I can understand asking a trusted ally how best to vote to achieve the desired results. But this is different, because NE Secession was perhaps the most important vote in Atlasian history, or at least in the last several years. And contrary to your dimissive reaction to the concerns, it was hardly an open and shut case and likely would have gone to the Supreme Court as to whether or not secession is legal, and hence why this matters.

Also ftr, I am notoriously lame with GOTV messaging, primarily because I don't feel comfortable telling people how to vote. They read more like campaign ads. And when I have convinced people in IRC, which is rare because I find it sickening most of the time, it is always conditional. "Well if you want this, then you probably want to vote for X". Naturally, I stood no chance of convincing you of the merits of opposing secession, when your radical friends were shouting out spoon fed votes left and right to anything with a pulse.

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Regarding "secession": you and I both know that even if that vote had passed, absolutely nothing would have come of it.

Actually, I didn't know that, because with one justice an avowed secessionist and another who is well notorious for doing some really crazy things at times, I couldn't be sure of anything.

One thing I do want to make clear, though, is that in all my years of assorted shenanigans I have not once ever done anything of the sort when I held office. When I swear an oath to the Atlasian people to faithfully execute the responsibilities of my office, to preserve and protect and defend the Constitution, I take that oath completely seriously. For example, when I was Pacific Justice I single-handedly saved the Pacific region from collapse via critical activity failures, when I could have easily done nothing and let it die (or, if I was the irresponsible troll you're clearly claiming I am, I could have passed a verdict that would have screwed everything up even worse). Instead of doing that, though, I took my sworn responsibility seriously, and I faithfully executed the powers of my office to protect and preserve Constitional law in the Pacific at a time when a single blow would have ended it.

Is it not true that why you authored the infamous Fourth and Final Constitutions of the Pacific (which were struck down by the Supreme Court unanimously)? Was that done in the same vein of "little Shenanigans"?

I apologize for such an extensive tangent into my personal life, but I feel it was necessary in order to put the "BACON KING IS INACTIVE" meme to rest once and for all. I know that objection has been raised elsewhere and I think it's appropriate to clarify why activity has been a problem in the past, and why it won't be one now. I'll be an active Justice, and I can say that with certainty.

I am glad you are doing better and as you will recall, I supported you 100% back in July and thought that although you made mistakes, the treatment you received was outrageous, especially initially. #FreetheDeleGAtion!!!

[Senator Cris]

Don't forget that the debate will last until November 7, 03.00 AM (Senate rules).

I'm sorry, but I can't vote to confirm Bacon King.

He's a person full of skills, but there are two big things: first of all, the timing of this nomination. Why not waiting for President-elect Griffin's decision? He'll swear in tomorrow.

Secondly, but most important: Bacon King admited that he voted in a such important vote as the vote for Northeast independence following the first good suggestion someone gave to him. And there's an evidence about that. I'll not share that evidence, but the fact that he asked about how to vote on Northeast Cabinet Amendment and his "adviser" said "who care" and then he voted "who care" is disturbing.
Again, with all due respect, I know he's a prepared person, but who can guarantee that he will not follow the "first good suggestions someone gives to him" when he'll have to handle with important Court cases?

[Talleyrand]

The buffoonery in this thread is not surprising!!!

No legitimate reasons have been given to stop the nomination of Bacon King. The mongrel weasels trying to stop him out of jealousy and bitterness from their own failures have decided to take a hatchet to his name!!!

I wonder if people are not supposed to give advice on how to vote now, or take any of that advice if it is offered? Rich coming from people who regularly send 100s (and from Cris this is literally the case) of PMs to "zombies" to vote for them. Should we disqualify those individuals from voting too???

Mr. Kingman is the most qualified candidate for this post and he has my FULL support.

Also, there is nothing wrong with the timing of this appointment.

Rpryor resigned his post on the constitutional convention to prevent the next Senate from voting on his replacement so that he would be replaced by a fellow clown like JoMCaR. I didn't see any of you raising any objection to that!!!

Looks like I've hurt Yankee's feelings!!! The only "ass" that has been kicked in this game has been his. Poor man. My advice to him, take an English class. You will be all the better for it!

[Oakvale]

Senate logic:

1. Bacon King voted based on the advice of someone, i.e. how a good 80-90% of the Atlasian population vote when they received their marching order via PM.

2. This disqualifies him from being a Supreme Court Justice despite his literal years of Atlasian legal work and impeccable qualifications.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

Oh Christ y'all

[Senator Cris]

I have nothing against Bacon King.

The fact is that he admitted that he followed the first indication that someone gave to him and that it wasn't an informed decision. He has not said "what is your advice?" or "how do you think I should vote?". He said "How do I vote here, [adviser name]". Someone also said to him "who care" about a Northeast amendment and he copied and pasted "who care" in the voting booth. Can I have some doubts, some reservations? I have the fear that Bacon King might follow the first IRC indication on a Supreme Court case.

[Senator Cris]

It's a question about trust.

IRC is a bad adviser and looks like IRC it's the origin of past conspirancies.
I hope that who needs to understand will understand.

[Negusa Nagast 🚀]

If you ever wanted an example for someone making a mountain out of a molehill, look no further than this thread.

[Lincoln Republican]

I would rather take views from associates on the front line than take marching orders from party bosses sitting in smoke filled rooms in the murky underworld of the Atlasian establishment.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I would rather take views from associates on the front line than take marching orders from party bosses sitting in smoke filled rooms in the murky underworld of the Atlasian establishment.

     That is fine, but then the character of those associates becomes a fair question. When you are taking views from persons of ill repute, it reflects poorly on yourself. Especially when, as Senator Cris posited, you are not even soliciting an informed opinion from them, but just looking for another form of "marching orders".

[Bacon King]

As an aside, I'd like to note that I believe it sets a very dangerous precedent to oppose a nominee for a nonpartisan office on account of how they have voted - I strongly urge the Senate against politicizing the Judiciary in this manner. That said, I do understand that several members of the Senate have concerns about my independence and my decision making process, so I'd like to answer your concerns all together in one post here.

1. I voted "who care" as a joke, because I would have abstained anyway and I thought it was funny to parrot the exact wording - I didn't think anybody noticed I abstained because I personally dislike the idea of a regional cabinet, but if enough people like the idea and are willing to serve in one, I wouldn't wish to keep them from that.

2. If I had voted without entering chat or asking anybody, I still would have voted for the candidates Talleyrand recommended. I supported the Northeast independence movement because it seemed fun so I obviously would have voted for their slate of candidates, which is exactly what was recommended to me. I'd like to reiterate that I wasn't literally asking to be told how to vote - I was asking for information about the candidates in what I considered to be a humorous and jocular manner. I'm entirely capable of making up my own mind. It appears you don't share my sense of humor, which I'll admit is a bit odd at times, but rest assured that if I was actually requesting "marching orders" of any kind, I wouldn't be so dumb as to literally shout it across a chat room filled with my political opponents.

3. I've already stated I supported the northeast independence movement in an attempt to bring excitement to the game; whenever I'm not in office that's always how I've most enjoyed Atlasia. Yes, I wrote the Deathstitution in the Pacific - and the sixth months following that stunt were the most active that the Pacific Region has ever been in the entire history of Atlasia and I'm damn proud of causing that. Like I said, I'm entirely willing to play the heel if it makes Atlasia more fun or entertaining - as long as I'm not in office at the time. I assure you all, if I'm not confirmed tomorrow I'll definitely be pursuing more shenanigans but only because I won't be holding office - but if you do confirm me as a member of the Supreme Court, I'll take the job entirely seriously, as I always have.

4. Just to make it perfectly clear, if I were on the Supreme Court I would have joined the opinion that reinstated the Third Constitution in the Pacific, and in the event of Northeast Secession I would write an opinion denouncing it as criminal and illegal. If I'm in a position of responsibility, I promise to all of you I would not in any circumstance violate my oath of office. I will always strive to defend, protect, and serve the Atlasian Constitution - and I sincerely hope you would impeach me if I ever failed to do so


PiT, Cris, Truman, Lumine, Yankee, and any other Senators who have legitimate questions regarding my vote:

You're entirely right. It was stupid of me to solicit instructions on how to vote. There's no justification for it and it casts a very poor light on Atlasian democracy as well as my own integrity. Regardless of how funny I thought it was, or how little it actually affected my judgement, it was dumb. It's always been dumb when I've done it before, too. For what little my word might mean to you now, I can promise I won't do it again.

I respectfully ask that you look past that incident, so you can see the intense passion I hold for the laws of Atlasia. I didn't know I'd be nominated until after it already happened - any one else would have probably turned it down, especially considering the number of Senators who immediately objected to the fact that the nomination even happened. But I wanted to serve in a genuine and serious capacity, to make Atlasia better. I do genuinely believe I'd make a better Justice than anyone else - and I merely wanted to offer that talent and give back to the Atlasia that has given me so much enjoyment over the years.

You have the votes to block my nomination. If I were anyone else, I'd have given up by now. But I'm me. I'm a fighter, and I hope if nothing else, that you can respect that. I know you all respect the breadth and depth of my legal knowledge (I remember more than a few times that a certain President Pro Tem from North Carolina needed me to bail him out when he needed a loophole ) and I understand you rightfully don't trust my intentions or my integrity. You don't need to, though - as a Justice of the Supreme Court, I'll be writing lengthy opinions so you can follow my legal reasoning from start to finish. Even if I agree with the majority opinion, I'll still author my own concurrence so you will know where I'm coming from. You'll be able to audit my decision-making process any time you desire, and I'll voluntarily resign if there's ever a single question about my integrity. With such a safeguard in place, I respectfully ask that you grant me this opportunity to build Atlasia up, because I'm tired of playing the bad guy.

If you confirm my nomination, my first act as a Justice will be to submit an undated resignation letter to President Griffin. The very second he wants me gone, he will be able to put a date on it and accept it, thus allowing him to force my immediate resignation whenever he wants. This method is done IRL with US Cabinet appointees, which is where I got the idea. That way, you don't have to worry about anything because the President would be able to kick me out of office if I ever did anything questionable. Hell, maybe he will accept the resignation as soon as he gets it - but I'd like to think he'd at least give me a shot. If you'd like, I could also leave a letter with the Speaker of the Senate to give y'all direct oversight as well. I understand this is an unorthodox action but I want to make it abundantly clear that I won't be messing around.

I hope I've successfully addressed your concerns, and I hope you will support my confirmation. Regardless of what happens, I'd like to thank every Senator for your consideration and for the impressive diligence you all share as stewards of the Atlasian people's trust. If anyone else has any questions I'll be happy to answer, but until, then thank you and God bless.

[Ebowed]

You know, it's the sort of situation where if you had voted in a consistent and "informed" way 100% of the time, they'd be asking you questions about whether or not you're too partisan to rule on cases objectively.

This game is constantly under pressure to fill its positions; we can hardly find people willing to serve in the Cabinet and most of the regional elections go uncontested and yet we are going to throw out one of the most qualified nominees for the Supreme Court that I have yet seen.  It's astonishing.

[Talleyrand]

So, Cris, if someone on IRC had told him to vote for you and he had, would you be striking the same tone? I am totally lost here. You are grasping at straws for any excuse to vote against Mr. Kingman and it's pathetic!!!

Also, apparently the latest argument from opponents of this nomination is that a Justice shouldn't know too much about the law, because then they will abuse it!!! What an IDIOTIC suggestion.

[Senator Cris]

Senator Trump Talleyrand, looks like you are not getting my point. Honestly, I don't care about his choices (Yes or No on Northeast amendment, me or Griffin or SWE or someone else on the presidential race) but it looked to me that he was asking for an order and I have the fear that someone might do the same when he'll have to face Court cases.

I haven't doubts on his skills. I have a lot of doubts about his independence when he'll decide and I have the fear that his decisions might be affected by someone.

However, even without this issues, I'd still vote against the confirmation because of the timing of this nomination. I think that the President elect shall decide who is the new Justice, not a President in the final days of his (inactive, can I say this?) term.

[Barnes]

This debate has become truly absurd.  Bacon King is an eminently qualified person for this position, and at a time when we are desperate for active officeholders, it would be exceedingly foolish of the Senate to reject such a nomination.

Now, if the President-elect chooses to act on this nomination, that is his prerogative.  However, until he does such a thing, and indeed if he does such a thing, I will have no reservations at all for voting to confirm the nominee.

[Lincoln Republican]

The outgoing President had full constitutional authority to make this nomination, and in fact he made the right nomination.  

It has become increasingly clear this current Senate is nothing more than an establishment clique bent on self preservation and flaunting their perceived authority.

The behavior and arrogance of this Senate is disgraceful.