Solve Income Inequality

[Free Bird]

Interested to see how this will work out

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Free trade, free movement of persons, global Marshall plan, global progressive income taxes and FTA, universal worldwide basic income, less reliance on sales tax, land redistribution especially in developing world, mutualisation of corporations, wage capping, comprehensive and affordable education and healthcare, slum elimination etc.

[Blue3]

Interested to see how this will work out

1.
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=217191.msg4685465#msg4685465

2.
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=219068.msg4724384


Other forums but same answers.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Bring Manufacturing and Blue Collar Jobs Back to the US, Train everyone on welfare in mid way paying jobs and if they refuse to get trained cut them of welfare, Give Businesses major tax cuts if they hire more people in the US with good wages

[courts]

Free trade, free movement of persons,global Marshall plan, global progressive income taxes and FTA, universal worldwide basic income, less reliance on sales tax, land redistribution especially in developing world, mutualisation of corporations, wage capping, comprehensive and affordable education and healthcare, slum elimination etc.

agree on most of this tbh

[muon2]

I'm cross posting this from US General Politics since it seems relevant here, too. This chart should help guide one's attempts at a solution. The drift of the upper three quintiles away from the lower two quintiles has been generally slow and steady over the last 35 years. The decade before Reagan isn't appreciably different than the decade after, despite considerable differences in national policy.

It seems clear that wealth has migrated towards the skilled professions, even in the middle class, as the global information age has progressed. The greater the skills required, the more rapid the increase in wages. To me that suggests the most effective changes would direct more resources towards education for the skills needed in the current economy, not large scale wealth redistribution or an investment in jobs in less skilled sectors from economies of the past.

Here's a better chart in response to Ernest. This is also from the historical household income data at the US Census. I found that the top of the second quintile (40%) was the most stable in real dollars, only increasing 5% from 1969 to 2014, so I used that to compare the other quintiles. The bottom quintile remained almost unchanged compared to the second quintile during that span of years and is very close to half the second quintile.

The growth is in the upper three quintiles. The middle quintile grew about 17% compared to the bottom two quintiles. Since the bottom two quintiles had little growth in real dollars, that 17% is close to the growth in real dollars since 1967.  The fourth quintile grew at 35% compared to the bottom two quintiles, or about double the rate of the middle. The limit for the upper 5% grew at 54% compared to the bottom two quintiles, or about triple the rate of the middle. My apologies for the year sequence which looked fine until the software rendered it to a bitmap.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Looking at the issue of inequality through the prism of one nation state is a bit absurd no? It'll be like saying inequality is solved because everbody in Andorra owns their own ski lodge.

And there really isn't any better way to reduce inequality between nations than by reducing the distorting effect of borders to nil.

[muon2]

Looking at the issue of inequality through the prism of one nation state is a bit absurd no? It'll be like saying inequality is solved because everbody in Andorra owns their own ski lodge.

And there really isn't any better way to reduce inequality between nations than by reducing the distorting effect of borders to nil.

Except that when US politicians or activists are talking about income inequality, it almost always means inequality within the US. Debates over the minimum wage or more aggressive tax tables are clearly about one country, not the world.

BTW can I get in on one of those ski lodge deals?

[Torie]

Destroy the teachers' unions.

[TJ in Oregon]

Before we "solve" the problem, what are the standards for a solution? Does everyone literally have to have the same income? What's the tolerance of deviation? Without defining these variables, we wouldn't be able to distinguish a solution even if we found one.

[muon2]

Before we "solve" the problem, what are the standards for a solution? Does everyone literally have to have the same income? What's the tolerance of deviation? Without defining these variables, we wouldn't be able to distinguish a solution even if we found one.

One model of the income distribution is to start with the same number of households in each range of income. For example, the same number would make from 0-20K as from 20-40K, and so on. For the lowest quintiles this is close to the current distribution, and 50 years ago extended all the way up to the 80%-ile. Today it extends upward to only about the 50%-ile.

The second part of the model involves the higher income groups. Those can be modeled with an exponential fall off. For example one might find that for every 80K in income there are half as many households - the number of households making 160K-240K is half the number making 80K-160K.

So, there are two variables one can adjust to create an income distribution. One is the percentile where the even distribution changes to an exponentially decreasing distribution. The other is the amount of drop off in the exponential region. The drop off can be stated as to how much of an income increase (in units of the income at the first variable) results in a decrease of households by a factor of two. A larger first number and smaller second number results in a distribution with less inequality.

[Murica!]

Abolish the State, Capitalism and Currency.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Abolish the State, Capitalism and Currency. socialism and communism

Fixed that for you

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I thought the complaint about socialism from rightists was that it makes everybody equally worse off, that it failed to alleviate inequality?

@muon. Such is the perils of living in the safe spaces that are nation states, I guess. Still, I think economics shows growth in other countries supports domestic growth (as an expanded base for exports etc) so I think removing other countries from the conversation is a flawed solution (like the economic nationalism in computer's answer)

[Murica!]

Abolish the State, Capitalism and Currency. socialism and communism

Fixed that for you

lol ok beep boop

[Gustaf]

I don't think it's a real problem. Poverty is a problem and inequality is sometimes a proxy for this but it's silly to get caught up in the wrong part of the issue.

Anyway, various forms of regulated capitalism is the only model we've ever tried that has a huge impact on reducing poverty so I think carrying on with that is the main tool.

[Hillary pays minimum wage]

Interested to see how this will work out

Then you posted on the wrong site.  All anyone here wants is to sit around and not have to work while Barack hands them other people's money.  Best way to do it is to encourage innovation and starting our own businesses, infrastructure, proper education, and yes some safety nets for the poor.  Regardless of what the former state senator from Illinois says, income inequality is still a big problem.  He doesn't care though.  He just says he cares to sell to the left.

[Sumner 1868]

Interested to see how this will work out

Then you posted on the wrong site.  All anyone here wants is to sit around and not have to work while Barack hands them other people's money.  Best way to do it is to encourage innovation and starting our own businesses, infrastructure, proper education, and yes some safety nets for the poor.  Regardless of what the former state senator from Illinois says, income inequality is still a big problem.  He doesn't care though.  He just says he cares to sell to the left.

What a lovely sock.

[Hillary pays minimum wage]

Interested to see how this will work out

Then you posted on the wrong site.  All anyone here wants is to sit around and not have to work while Barack hands them other people's money.  Best way to do it is to encourage innovation and starting our own businesses, infrastructure, proper education, and yes some safety nets for the poor.  Regardless of what the former state senator from Illinois says, income inequality is still a big problem.  He doesn't care though.  He just says he cares to sell to the left.

What a lovely sock.

Thanks for proving my point.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Adjust minimum wage to inflation. It wont get people into skilled labor, but jobs they already have, will be paying bills

[Enduro]

How about freedom? Let people experience economic freedom.

[ingemann]

The minimum wage following inflation would be a nice start, but also limit the number of unskilled workers. In general income equality have increased when the supply of unskilled workers didn't exceed the demand too much.

[Virginiá]

How about freedom? Let people experience economic freedom.

What exactly does this mean?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

How about freedom? Let people experience economic freedom.

What exactly does this mean?

Cherished freedoms like choosing between feeding your children or getting them healthcare; I assume. How liberating.

So ingemann would that entirely be based around education then?

[parochial boy]

Looking at the issue of inequality through the prism of one nation state is a bit absurd no? It'll be like saying inequality is solved because everbody in Andorra owns their own ski lodge.

And there really isn't any better way to reduce inequality between nations than by reducing the distorting effect of borders to nil.

I think this is a good point, because it isn't really just about inequality between nations, but also impacts inequality within nations.

If we live in a world where, thanks to the free movement of capital, technological advancement etc, the power of the nation state to implement redistributive policies has declined; then inequality between and within nations are really the same issue.

We would never be able to fully solve inequality on a nation by nation basis, as any redistributive policies around taxation or corporate and economic structures could always be undermined by a "competing" nation. The real answer has to lie in, at the very leaf, a global taxation structure and global regulations on corporate practice and ownership.

That said, nations still do have the ability to implement tax or regulatory structures, or even use mechanisms like subsidies, that could help reduce inequality. Such as tax breaks to co-operatives, or lending to help employees buy out their employers.