Solve Income Inequality (user search)
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  Solve Income Inequality (search mode)
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Author Topic: Solve Income Inequality  (Read 6736 times)
Gustaf
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Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -0.70

« on: December 04, 2015, 07:21:13 AM »

I don't think it's a real problem. Poverty is a problem and inequality is sometimes a proxy for this but it's silly to get caught up in the wrong part of the issue.

Anyway, various forms of regulated capitalism is the only model we've ever tried that has a huge impact on reducing poverty so I think carrying on with that is the main tool.
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Gustaf
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Posts: 29,779


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -0.70

« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2016, 04:30:08 AM »

Step 1: First World countries return the billions (trillions) of dollars they've expropriated from Third World countries over the years (and affluent areas within the First and Third Worlds do the same to the impoverished ares within them).

Step 2: Keep most future wealth within the communities that produce them.

Problem solved.

I'm sorry but a) that is nonsense and b) Step 2 doesn't actually work. You'd have to be completely ignorant of the history of economic development and macroeconomics to think that would be a solution. Reforming institutions in 3rd world countries would help though.


Elect Bernie Sanders.

The fact that the USA does not have free education for University is an issue. Only the rich can afford it.

Look at countries which have very low income inequality.

Norway, Sweden, Finland.

Study their political system, and the answers you will find for the question you propose.

University tuition certainly plays a part, not sure if it's the biggest issue for inequality though. I'd agree it can be important to solve a real problem, namely lack of opportunity for the poor.
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Gustaf
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Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,779


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -0.70

« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2016, 08:49:53 PM »

Step 1: First World countries return the billions (trillions) of dollars they've expropriated from Third World countries over the years (and affluent areas within the First and Third Worlds do the same to the impoverished ares within them).

Step 2: Keep most future wealth within the communities that produce them.

Problem solved.

I'm sorry but a) that is nonsense and b) Step 2 doesn't actually work. You'd have to be completely ignorant of the history of economic development and macroeconomics to think that would be a solution.

...or is that just what you WANT us to think?

No, it's what is clear from observing reality. Differences in capital endowment or resources isn't a great predictor of national wealth.
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Gustaf
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Atlas Star
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Posts: 29,779


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -0.70

« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2016, 03:20:24 PM »

Differences in capital endowment or resources isn't a great predictor of national wealth.

But isn't that because of the exploitation I mentioned?

Huh? You wanted to redistribute things to rectify poverty. I pointed out that since the current distribution isn't the main driver of the inequality it'd not be the best solution to the problem.
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Gustaf
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Atlas Star
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Posts: 29,779


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -0.70

« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2016, 06:18:28 AM »

Yes, differences in capital endowment explain only a tiny fraction of GDP per capita differences. We can also look at things like development aid having pretty much zero correlation with economic growth for poor countries.

We also observe that access to natural resources tends to have a negative impact on growth in developing countries.

What we do know is that institutions matter a lot. Countries that embraced capitalism, like South Korea or West Germany saw tremendous growth and became essentially Western countries while those that chose paths closer to your preferred system, like East Germany or North Korea remained in abject poverty.

Note that among people who study these things the above facts are fairly elementary. And taken together they strongly indicate that just dumping a pile of money into some African dictatorship would do basically nothing to improve the situation for the people of that country.
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Gustaf
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Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,779


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -0.70

« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2016, 10:24:53 PM »

If someone asks about advice because they want to understand a field they are not familiar with I wouldn't sneer at them. But when someone takes a dogmatic ideological position that will make already impoverished people worse off because they couldn't bother to learn about the world I won't be particularly respectful because I find that attitude difficult to respect.

I don't think direct cash transfers or universal basic income are comparable to the concept that was being discussed. I agree there are interesting results there, though I'm personally ideologically biased in favour of cash transfers, so I try not to get too excited.

Your point that development economists often like to claim that development aid is good might well be true. People like to prop up their field. Now, I'm not saying there should be no aid. What I'm pointing out is that aid has not been an important factor in alleviating poverty. If it were, countries that received lots of it (like Ghana or Tanzania) would have been lifted out of poverty, not places like China or South Korea.

The impacts of other things, like stable property rights, functioning capital markets, rule of law, accountability in government, some basic level of social justice is much larger. At least, this is true to all the research I've seen on the subject (admittedly I haven't been looking much at this field in the last few years). If you have data backing the notion that transfers of capital of the sort advocated by MOP has huge impacts on economic growth, feel free to present them.

But again, the reason some countries are really poor and others really rich isn't primarily that someone gave the latter group a lot of money and is withholding that bunch of money from the former. That isn't negating the existence of historical injustices or even saying we shouldn't do something to redress those injustices. But it is intellectually lazy to make that the scapegoat for economic inequality in the world.

Getting people out of poverty in developing countries is really important. The very least moral obligation one can put on people with the relatively high level of power and Western citizen has is to educate oneself sufficiently on it so as to not argue for policies that will keep them poor. So, yeah, I might be snarky about that. I don't mind it if you get all madz about it, that's your prerogative. But I'd find it more interesting if you spent less time attacking my personal character and more engaging with the substance of the issue.

The tangent on trade seems a bit off-topic, to me, but I'll comment briefly. There are nuances to trade policy but I'm yet to see a convincing argument for deviations from free trade, especially when put in the real world that some economists avoid. Tongue
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