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| |-+  2016 U.S. Presidential Election (Moderators: AndrewTX, Likely Voter, TJ in Wisco)
| | |-+  Democrats: all things considered, who are you most afraid of?
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Poll
Question: ?
Trump   -30 (28.6%)
Cruz   -23 (21.9%)
Rubio   -29 (27.6%)
Carson   -1 (1%)
Bush   -1 (1%)
Christie   -4 (3.8%)
Kasich   -1 (1%)
Fiorina   -1 (1%)
Paul   -0 (0%)
Huckabee   -0 (0%)
Graham   -1 (1%)
Pataki   -0 (0%)
Santorum   -0 (0%)
Gilmore   -0 (0%)
Clinton   -2 (1.9%)
Sanders   -1 (1%)
O'Malley   -1 (1%)
Not a Democrat   -10 (9.5%)
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Total Voters: 105

Author Topic: Democrats: all things considered, who are you most afraid of?  (Read 2732 times)
Crumpets
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« on: December 16, 2015, 07:18:25 pm »
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Not necessarily who you think is the worst person running, but who do you think has the combination of abhorrent views, electability, and shrewd ability to push their agenda through? Trump, for example, has horrible policies, but is polling terribly, and would have a sizeable majority in Congress against his proposals. Originally, I thought Scott Walker would best fit this mold, but now I'm leaning more towards either Cruz or Rubio - Cruz seems less electable, but has worse policies, and is very politically able.

So, all things considered, who are you most afraid of?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 07:31:58 pm by Thinking Crumpets Crumpet »Logged

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Ebsy
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« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2015, 07:20:25 pm »
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Pretty close between Cruz and Rubio, but I voted Rubio because he might actually be able to make a sale of his snake oil to the American people.
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Fritz
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« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2015, 07:25:54 pm »
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Trump, not because of his likelihood of getting elected (he's not), but just because he is  scary.
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Prime Minister Truman
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« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2015, 07:47:53 pm »
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Trump. His general election prospects aside, the mere fact that an overtly racist, entirely unqualified demagogue stands a good chance of winning the nomination of one of the two largest political parties in the country is terrifying.
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« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2015, 08:13:17 pm »
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Cruz is easily the scariest of the bunch. Carson would be next but he seems to be fading as of late so he no longer seems viable. Cruz has an excellent chance of winning the Iowa caucus and will get a ton of publicity but I don't see him being able to go the distance. Still scary though. Iowa Republicans sure do love Conservatives though. Not afraid of any Republican this cycle.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 08:14:52 pm by ♥♦ 3peat 2016 ♣♠ »Logged

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« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2015, 08:21:42 pm »
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Easily Rubio
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Torie
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« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2015, 08:23:03 pm »
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I can't see how Cruz gets elected. He's just not likable beyond everything else. With Trump, I guess anything is possible. He has charisma. He's a performer. And he will dial back a lot his more outrageous stuff if and when he secures the nomination. So it conceivable that he could get elected. And thus ... well you get the drift.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2015, 08:38:37 pm »
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I think TRUMP is a ham who plays it up for television. Cruz is for real. That's what makes Cruz so frightening. I think Cruz could potentially win - if he scares enough voters. Not to mention the guy is a grade A debater.
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« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2015, 08:40:21 pm »
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Dems arent gonna have a night like 2012, more like 2004. When, we had to wait on CO, NV & OH. Rubio, makes things more difficult, but not impossible.
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« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2015, 08:44:49 pm »
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Not a registered democrat, but Trump.  I don't think you have to be a democrat or a republican to be scared of Trump.  That dude is creepy enough for anyone.
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Penelope
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« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2015, 08:58:29 pm »
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Not a registered democrat, but Trump.  I don't think you have to be a democrat or a republican to be scared of Trump.  That dude is creepy enough for anyone.


Cruz is FAR creepier.
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publicunofficial
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« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2015, 09:03:41 pm »
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It scares me how many people believe Carson to both intelligent politically and qualified, even among those who view Trump as an insane racist. But Carson's chance of winning is very low, so I voted for Cruz.
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Fmr. Pres. Griff
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« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2015, 09:44:16 pm »
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So obviously all of the Republicans have abhorrent views, but let's pretend that I'm "fair" or whatever by not automatically labeling them all as such.

ABH = Abhorrent views
ELE = Electability
AGN = Shrewd ability to push their agenda through

Cand.ABHELEAGN
TrumpYESNOYES
CruzYES?-?-?NO
RubioYESYESYES
CarsonYESNONO
BushNOYESYES
ChristieNOYESYES
KasichNOYESYES
FiorinaYESNOYES
PaulYESNONO
HuckabeeYESNONO
GrahamYESYESYES
PatakiNOYESNO
SantorumYESNONO
GilmoreNOYESNO
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To some extent, Griffin was in many ways elected as a War time President because he viewed, not as the guy you want a beer with, but the guy you would go to a bar fight with.

I'm not crazy by the way.
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« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2015, 09:51:48 pm »
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Surprised Graham is not up there with the rest for you Dems.

"Hawk" is an understatement. He has the Hitler of foreign policies in contrast with leftist ideals.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 09:53:29 pm by EliteLX »Logged

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publicunofficial
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« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2015, 10:39:40 pm »
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Surprised Graham is not up there with the rest for you Dems.

"Hawk" is an understatement. He has the Hitler of foreign policies in contrast with leftist ideals.

No one's afraid of him winning an election though. He's got as much chance at winning the R primary as he does the D one.
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Castro
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« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2015, 10:40:30 pm »
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Rubio. He's one of the few Republicans that could win a general election, has a decent shot at winning the primary, and is much more dangerous than he seems.
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clash
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« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2015, 10:48:32 pm »
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They myth of Rubio's electability is alive and well, I see.
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« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2015, 11:06:25 pm »
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They're all varying levels of terrible, of course. I see 4 candidates who right now have a plausible shot at the nomination: Cruz, Trump, Rubio, and Christie. I can't see Cruz winning the general, and I don't see Trump actually managing to work with Congress in any meaningful way. (Though Trump somehow getting elected terrifies me on a more symbolic level far more than any other candidates do.) Christie and Rubio both have equally horrible foreign policy, but Rubio seems more likely to pass something damaging domestically than Christie, so my vote goes to him.
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Young Conservative
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« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2015, 11:08:53 pm »
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So obviously all of the Republicans have abhorrent views, but let's pretend that I'm "fair" or whatever by not automatically labeling them all as such.

ABH = Abhorrent views
ELE = Electability
AGN = Shrewd ability to push their agenda through

Cand.ABHELEAGN
TrumpYESNOYES
CruzYES?-?-?NO
RubioYESYESYES
CarsonYESNONO
BushNOYESYES
ChristieNOYESYES
KasichNOYESYES
FiorinaYESNOYES
PaulYESNONO
HuckabeeYESNONO
GrahamYESYESYES
PatakiNOYESNO
SantorumYESNONO
GilmoreNOYESNO
LOL Graham is electable? Not to conservatives. My parents would  vote constitution instead and so would I. Millions more would just stay home. Also, Carson is more electable according to polling than one might think..it is worth notation.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2015, 11:20:11 pm »
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If a Republican candidate can't win the primary they can't win the general.
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Fmr. Pres. Griff
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« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2015, 11:35:54 pm »
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So obviously all of the Republicans have abhorrent views, but let's pretend that I'm "fair" or whatever by not automatically labeling them all as such.

ABH = Abhorrent views
ELE = Electability
AGN = Shrewd ability to push their agenda through

Cand.ABHELEAGN
TrumpYESNOYES
CruzYES?-?-?NO
RubioYESYESYES
CarsonYESNONO
BushNOYESYES
ChristieNOYESYES
KasichNOYESYES
FiorinaYESNOYES
PaulYESNONO
HuckabeeYESNONO
GrahamYESYESYES
PatakiNOYESNO
SantorumYESNONO
GilmoreNOYESNO
LOL Graham is electable? Not to conservatives. My parents would  vote constitution instead and so would I. Millions more would just stay home. Also, Carson is more electable according to polling than one might think..it is worth notation.

Well then I guess they're in the same group and of the same number as the people who won't vote for Hillary if Bernie isn't the nominee. A negligible sum that will only affect the closest of races. It's not "millions": you guys really need to get over the whole "if they're not real conservatives then 'millions' will stay home!" shtick. You're literally hardcore Bernie Sanders supporters, albeit with the ideological preferences flipped. You're confusing the actual electorate with your personal and biased viewpoints, as well as individual and subjective experiences (the same broad behavior is why Inhofe thinks throwing a snowball on the Senate floor disproves climate change). I can't wait to hear the whole "we need to nominate a real conservative" line if/after Trump loses the general, from the same people who said we needed a real conservative like Trump in the first place.

Republican electability is really simple - in fact, it's the simplest of all variables to calculate. Do they stand a chance at making inward roads with genuine moderate and independent voters? If so, then yes, they are electable. If it's a matter of sheer abnormally-high turnout, then the Republicans lose every time. Obviously Democrats are not going to vote for any Republican, so that's a non-factor.

Republican turnout in a given election cycle is a constant; likely Republican voters always show up and they always vote for their party. You can pretty much bank on a given number of votes in a national race from Republicans these days (60,000,000) - just look at the past three elections. There's been only two million votes' worth of variance (compared to ten million for Democrats). In part, that's because of the demographics and alienation of your party; there is now one voter dying off for every new voter you obtain. This isn't a structural problem the Democrats currently have. Despite conservative posturing, virtually none sit at home and boycott the election (or lodge protest votes, for that matter) because "real conservatives" didn't get the nod. That's something Democrats and leftists actually do in much greater numbers, but it's still around the margins.

If a Republican candidate can't win the primary they can't win the general.

Nope nope nope
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To some extent, Griffin was in many ways elected as a War time President because he viewed, not as the guy you want a beer with, but the guy you would go to a bar fight with.

I'm not crazy by the way.
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« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2015, 11:43:29 pm »
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They myth of Rubio's electability is alive and well, I see.

lol
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ProgressiveCanadian
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« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2015, 02:20:10 am »
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Cruz...he's the more calm version of Trump but still terrible. Rubio is a boy he will never win let alone be the nominee.
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« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2015, 03:15:09 am »
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Trump. His general election prospects aside, the mere fact that an overtly racist, entirely unqualified demagogue stands a good chance of winning the nomination of one of the two largest political parties in the country is terrifying.

I really wanted to say Cruz, but Trump has unexpectedly beat him. What a strange election.
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« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2015, 03:40:22 am »
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If I were a Democrat, I'd probably say Carson just over Trump. Donald is smart, reasonable and liberal while Carson is a dumb, far right wing savant who people seem to like out of some inexplicable pity that I can't understand (and it permeates ideology)
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