Secession

[Ben.]

Had you been a state representative at the various conventions called to discus secession in most of the southern states (only Delaware and Maryland had no convention what so ever concerning secession ) how would you have voted?

[Nation]

Off topic, but I think there's something in the Texas Constitution that lets it remove itself from the union and become a separate country.

Jmfcst, agcat, correct me if I'm in error.

[ShapeShifter]

Remain a part of the Union

[JohnFKennedy]

Off topic, but I think there's something in the Texas Constitution that lets it remove itself from the union and become a separate country.

Jmfcst, agcat, correct me if I'm in error.

I know there is something in the constitution that will let it split into 4(?) smaller states.

[tigerfan04]

Abstain.  I would not have favored secession, in 1860 the North was far ahead in terms of population and industry.  Since the North would have to invade, I knew it would be the South that would be devastated by the fighting.  The only reason I would abstain would be as a protest against leaving; voting no at the time would have ended my political career, perhaps even my life.

[angus]

Off topic, but I think there's something in the Texas Constitution that lets it remove itself from the union and become a separate country.

Jmfcst, agcat, correct me if I'm in error.

I know there is something in the constitution that will let it split into 4(?) smaller states.

I have read that it was five.  Not sure about the secession part.  Jmfcst is a pretty astute student of Texas history, maybe he knows.

Sam Houston is one of my favorite heroes of San Jacinto and the whole Texas saga for independence, then later statehood.  Not in small measure because he was such an outspoken Unionist.  Of course, that would ultimately be his political downfall, at the hands of secessionists like Mirabeau Bonaparte Lamar.  

Take a look in the contemporary literature, such as newspapers of the time.  You'll notice that the phrase "These United States are..." had been completely supplanted by the phrase "The United States is..." by around 1840, more than two decades before the issue of states-rights vs. strong central government was settled at the point of a gun.  The supremacy of DC over the various legislatures had been established by 1860.  Don't kid yourself.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

word.

[Platypus]

It's five states, with the capitals Austin, Houston, Dallas, Amarillo and Midland, IIRC. I know for sure that it is five states, but i'm not so sure about the capitals.

[angus]

ofthisnation,
It seems you were right about the number four, but that refers to four additional states.  So Hugento was correct and there's no mention of the right of secession.  The Republic had been given diplomatic recognition by the United States, France, Great Britain, and The Republic of Yucatan, but annexation was in the cards all along, I suspect.  The annexation treaty included two unique provisions.  First, the treaty gave the new state the right to divide itself into as many as five states with approval of its legislature.  Second, the state did not have to surrender its public lands to the federal government.  This means that generally, the only lands owned by the federal government within Texas have actually been purchased by the government.  Here's the answer.  From none other than Senator John Kerry's and President George Bush's Alma Mater:

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/texan01.htm

[12th Doctor]

I'll be honest.  I would have seceded.

[Chiahead]

Fight for what's right, but wouldn't sucede

[Blerpiez]

I probably would have voted to secede, but to help show southern unity and not look like a traitor to the south

[12th Doctor]

But if I had been living in Erie, PA at the time, I would have fought for the Union.


83rd Pennsylvania- one of the best regiments in the federal army.

[KEmperor]

Not being a southerner, that's hard to answer.  I would probably have fought for the Union.

[Kodratos]

I would have voted for secession. I had six ancestors who fought for the Confederacy

[The Dowager Mod]

i had relatives on both sides.
personaly i would have gone for the south.

[12th Doctor]

I would have voted for secession. I had six ancestors who fought for the Confederacy

Is that all?  I had 28 total that I know of and only 9 came back without being killed or badly wounded.

[angus]

I would have voted for secession. I had six ancestors who fought for the Confederacy

Is that all?  I had 28 total that I know of and only 9 came back without being killed or badly wounded.

whoa.  pretty dismal odds.  war is hell.

union all the way.  go republicans!

[KEmperor]

I might have ancestors that fought on both sides, I wouldn't know.  I do know that I have ancestors that lived in New York at the time and ancestors that lived in Georgia at the time.

[12th Doctor]

I might have ancestors that fought on both sides, I wouldn't know.  I do know that I have ancestors that lived in New York at the time and ancestors that lived in Georgia at the time.

Out of my Northern family, I think 3 served.  I think that they all made it back in one piece and out of a box.

[opebo]

I would definitely have seceded, but if Lincoln called my bluff (as it turned out he did), I would've immediately surrendered and fled to Costa Rica.

[??????????]

One of my wifes ancestors took the Oath of allegiance 6 times and each time afterwards went back to fight the North. That dude flip flopped more then Kerry.

[Kghadial]

Secede definitely

And if I was a Northern politician i would have opposed crushing the Confederacy too.  We'd wait a generation and then take the Mississippi River back. The leave them alone, forever and ever.

[??????????]

No one yet here has mentioned that both New England wanted to secede during the 1830s, Daniel Webster believe it was a States RIGHT to secede and that West Point taught up until 1861 in its law courses that secession is a inherent right of the state. BTW, Maryland voted not to vote on the issue of secession. But had it not been for the Western Maryland Germans and Lincolns unconstitutional "laws", Maryland would have been the 12th Southern State.

[Ben.]

No one yet here has mentioned that both New England wanted to secede during the 1830s, Daniel Webster believe it was a States RIGHT to secede and that West Point taught up until 1861 in its law courses that secession is a inherent right of the state. BTW, Maryland voted not to vote on the issue of secession. But had it not been for the Western Maryland Germans and Lincolns unconstitutional "laws", Maryland would have been the 12th Southern State.

Yeah when Lee invaded in 1862, the reason he had so little success in gaining recruits was 1.) he did not win a crushing victory and two he invaded that potion of MD which was staunchly unionist and similar economically to west Virginia... had the south won Maryland would have probably ended up being partitioned with the west of the state remaining in the union and holing a corridor open to Washington and the east of the state and Baltimore joining the confederacy...

Don’t know if your interested but Newt Gingrich and William Forstchen wrote and excellent alternative history about Lee winning in the 1863 campaign in Pennsylvania and Maryland http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/031230935X/qid=1082798572/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_2/103-9185077-4232660


they also have a follow up book http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312309376/qid=1082798572/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/103-9185077-4232660

Really well written there is a lot of poor alternative history out there but these are really well written and plausible, if your interested very good reads…    

[??????????]

Also I must say that the creation of West Virginia was unconstitutional. The constitution says no state can be created out of a state or territory. The reason the western Virginia counties voted to become their own state was because they were threatened by the Union w/an option. Stay with Virginia and you will lose your booming railroad economy. Leave and form your own state and you will be able to keep the railroads and gain Union military support. Since in that time period the Eastern counties (Where the railroads were) far outweighed the west in population the formation of WVA was fairly easy. After the war the Federal govt offered WVA back to Virginia. The Federal govt told Virginia they could have the Western counties back if they paid back all their prewar and war debts or let WVA remain a state and split the debts in half with the new state.