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  The Judicial Branch (Supreme Court) PASSED
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Author Topic: The Judicial Branch (Supreme Court) PASSED  (Read 12932 times)
Kingpoleon
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« Reply #150 on: March 23, 2016, 04:02:05 pm »

I ask the delegates find a way to confirm the current Associate Justices as regional ones.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #151 on: March 23, 2016, 06:05:35 pm »

I ask the delegates find a way to confirm the current Associate Justices as regional ones.
This would invalidate the results of the last principle vote to retain those Justices, would it not?
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President Griffin
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« Reply #152 on: March 24, 2016, 06:03:16 am »

I just...don't like where the court is headed

Yeah, me either, but of all of those options presented, I feel like Plan A was the least bad.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #153 on: March 24, 2016, 11:06:25 am »

Why exactly do we need regions having a say in who sits on the federal Supreme Court? Where are all my separation of power regionalists here? What if the federal government had a say on who sits on regional courts?
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #154 on: March 24, 2016, 11:48:42 am »

What if the federal government had a say on who sits on regional courts?
Well, actually, it does now. That was the point of the "Associate Justices" adopted a few votes ago.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #155 on: March 24, 2016, 06:25:06 pm »

What if the federal government had a say on who sits on regional courts?
Well, actually, it does now. That was the point of the "Associate Justices" adopted a few votes ago.

I know, but that doesn't mean I agree with it. Tongue

Well, I have gotten my way most of the time here, so if I don't win here, oh well. But I'll fight my hardest to try to win
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #156 on: March 24, 2016, 06:39:56 pm »

Here is what we have so far for this Article:

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Are there any further amendments/suggestions for principle votes?
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #157 on: March 24, 2016, 07:02:16 pm »

Look, it looks really bad as it is, okay. The SCOA will consist of 2 justices and 3 associates? Partly nominated by the regions? The Supreme Court is not a regional court. No idea why regions should be putting their judges on it and taking that power away from the president/senate.

People can't think this is a good idea, right?
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President Griffin
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« Reply #158 on: March 24, 2016, 08:23:00 pm »

The argument in part is that it consolidates offices: each of the three Justices from the Regions also serves as their CJO. This convention - due entirely to the time in which it was originated based on the voter rolls - has increasingly encroached more and more upon federal powers by expanding regional influence above and beyond what is necessary or prudent. I've tried time and time again to make the point that the Regions are why we're here in the first place: they are not healthy nor highly-functional laboratories in this game. They are mostly a liability and their lack of functionality is why we needed a new game.

My goal for this ConCon was to reduce the amount of damage they could do to the game, not expand it. This convention has thwarted that goal at almost every turn. I have resigned myself to the fact that this convention won't produce "the game to end all games" and that future generations of Atlasians will find themselves facing some of the same problems that we have been facing because we didn't get it 100% right.
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Türkisblau
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« Reply #159 on: March 25, 2016, 08:08:47 am »

Just end this travesty quickly. Did you all really have to give Atlasia such a drawn out death?
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Leinad
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« Reply #160 on: March 25, 2016, 09:33:14 am »

Why exactly do we need regions having a say in who sits on the federal Supreme Court? Where are all my separation of power regionalists here? What if the federal government had a say on who sits on regional courts?

Ideally, no one will get confirmed for those three seats who isn't approved by both the federal and regional governments.

A major argument in favor is that the Supreme Court will be better due to having more offices--more balance in ideas and more chances of dissents, making for a more interesting court. And it does this while decreasing the overall office total by merging into it an office that, let's face it, is about as eventful as "A New Start" party meetings. I appointed Small L Judicial Overlord in August, and his successor just took office. In that time, he had literally zero cases. None. Now the office is one that gives the regions a voice in federal law, and from how I see it makes the Supreme Court better and more interesting.

At this point, it's passed, and due to the "iron fisted" approach that has been prescribed by some, it will be very hard to overturn the result of the principle votes without a large consensus to do so, especially since this was after considering all the angles (unlike the previous principle vote--surely everyone sees the difference).

I wish everyone could agree on everything, but obviously that's not the case. After going through the circus that was the South American Last Will and Testament Provisional Parliament, I certainly know what it's like to have minority opinions in a group such as this. Trust me, you're handling it better than I did! Tongue



Just end this travesty quickly. Did you all really have to give Atlasia such a drawn out death?

We discussed the idea that Atlasia is dead. And that argument decisively lost. Atlasia is on a much better course due to this Convention than due to any of the dissolutionist movements that sprang up last year.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #161 on: March 25, 2016, 07:41:56 pm »

If this Convention is a bust, a good person would easily crush the Constitution it creates. However, if is not, this defeatist federalist attitude is only dragging it down. Those such as Turkisblau have betrayed Atlasia before, and now they want our trust. An iron fist here is holding us strongly here, and we need it to let go. Mr. President, you pledged to end this Convention fast. Now, you are holding it back. Do you want a quick rush so you can have great power, or do you want a good document upheld by the delegates here?
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #162 on: March 25, 2016, 10:26:38 pm »

There's a lot of pessimism floating around, and while I understand why some are frustrated with how the last few votes have panned out, two things need to be made clear:
     • This Convention will not fail, if for no other reason than that I will not allow it to fail. Whatever imperfections have been adopted, the document we have drafted thus far is fundamentally stronger and more durable than the present government. Disagreements - even strong disagreements - are not a reason to throw up our hands and cry "uncle." We have made a painful decision, and now we will move on.
     • I don't believe that the reforms to the Judiciary are doomed to go wrong, but even if this were so, it would be a great leap to suggest that they will drag the new Constitution down with it. The Three-fifths Compromise did not destroy the U.S. Constitution, and neither will excessive Regionalism scuttle this effort to rebuild the game. If Duke and others are right, and this turns out to be a colossal mistake, we will be able to correct it through a Constitutional Amendment later.

I suggest we move ahead with the matter of the Chief Justiceship: while the U.S. Constitution did not specify how the Chief Justice is to be selected, some delegates have proposed including such a clause in Section 1. As I see it, there are two reasonable ways to go about this: a) allow the President to designate one of the jurists "Chief Justice"; or b) allow the Court to elect the Chief Justice from among its members. I prefer option (a) because it gives the president an extra dash of influence over the court, and a strong presidency is essential to ensuring that the Regions don't become too powerful (this would also be a good concession to the folks who opposed the Bore Plan).
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Ted Bessell
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« Reply #163 on: March 25, 2016, 11:42:17 pm »

I agree. We voted, and this is what we got. Now, let's keep it moving so we can get things finished up soon. We won't let this slow us down.

I would be inclined to support (A) as well, for the reasons Truman stated. Additionally, IRL Chief Justices are picked by the President (to say, separately from Associate Justices), and an extra element of realism in the game is always a nice touch.
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Leinad
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« Reply #164 on: March 26, 2016, 01:40:44 am »

Yes, this Constitution is how we're saving Atlasia. I'm completely fine with people disagreeing about how to do it, but this is a document that will do far more good than bad, and it will not fail because Atlasia needs it to succeed. Those of us who want to play Atlasia, such as myself, Truman, and many others, will make it succeed, and those who disagree...well, why would you care if you don't want to participate anymore? Rhetorical question, of course, because we had that debate last year. Again, the results were conclusive.

I would be inclined to support (A) as well, for the reasons Truman stated. Additionally, IRL Chief Justices are picked by the President (to say, separately from Associate Justices), and an extra element of realism in the game is always a nice touch.

Yeah, they are picked by the President, and the difference of A and B didn't change that. The question was about the retention of the current justices (bgwah, TJ, and windjammer).
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Türkisblau
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« Reply #165 on: March 26, 2016, 02:28:54 am »

If this Convention is a bust, a good person would easily crush the Constitution it creates. However, if is not, this defeatist federalist attitude is only dragging it down. Those such as Turkisblau have betrayed Atlasia before, and now they want our trust. An iron fist here is holding us strongly here, and we need it to let go. Mr. President, you pledged to end this Convention fast. Now, you are holding it back. Do you want a quick rush so you can have great power, or do you want a good document upheld by the delegates here?



tfw people here think the Convention lasting this long is acceptable... fiddling while Rome burns!
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #166 on: March 26, 2016, 04:52:30 am »

Third Convention - lasted two seasons, had no direction and people disagreed and never resolved those disagreements. Didn't even draft a final product.

Fourth Convention - Lasted two/three months (IIRC), everybody agreed, little was changed. Final product became the third constitution.

Granted, I didn't expect nine months either, but conditions in which we are operating and the differences that need to be settled to succeed, means that a shorter one probably would not have passed a successful product.
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Ted Bessell
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« Reply #167 on: March 26, 2016, 01:18:12 pm »

Yes, this Constitution is how we're saving Atlasia. I'm completely fine with people disagreeing about how to do it, but this is a document that will do far more good than bad, and it will not fail because Atlasia needs it to succeed. Those of us who want to play Atlasia, such as myself, Truman, and many others, will make it succeed, and those who disagree...well, why would you care if you don't want to participate anymore? Rhetorical question, of course, because we had that debate last year. Again, the results were conclusive.

I would be inclined to support (A) as well, for the reasons Truman stated. Additionally, IRL Chief Justices are picked by the President (to say, separately from Associate Justices), and an extra element of realism in the game is always a nice touch.

Yeah, they are picked by the President, and the difference of A and B didn't change that. The question was about the retention of the current justices (bgwah, TJ, and windjammer).

I was referring to selection of the Chief Justice.
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Leinad
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« Reply #168 on: March 26, 2016, 02:37:15 pm »

Yes, this Constitution is how we're saving Atlasia. I'm completely fine with people disagreeing about how to do it, but this is a document that will do far more good than bad, and it will not fail because Atlasia needs it to succeed. Those of us who want to play Atlasia, such as myself, Truman, and many others, will make it succeed, and those who disagree...well, why would you care if you don't want to participate anymore? Rhetorical question, of course, because we had that debate last year. Again, the results were conclusive.

I would be inclined to support (A) as well, for the reasons Truman stated. Additionally, IRL Chief Justices are picked by the President (to say, separately from Associate Justices), and an extra element of realism in the game is always a nice touch.

Yeah, they are picked by the President, and the difference of A and B didn't change that. The question was about the retention of the current justices (bgwah, TJ, and windjammer).

I was referring to selection of the Chief Justice.

Ah, right, sorry, I somehow missed that in Truman's post! My bad, Governor, my bad.

Yeah, I'm with Ted and Truman in letting the President choose the Chief Justice.
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Ted Bessell
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« Reply #169 on: March 26, 2016, 03:48:39 pm »

^^^ lol, 's ok
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #170 on: March 26, 2016, 03:51:57 pm »

     Some folks are hard to please. When we don't change anything, they complain. When we change lots of things, they complain. It's obvious that some here are just wedded to getting their particular brand of change.
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Türkisblau
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« Reply #171 on: March 26, 2016, 07:25:30 pm »

     Some folks are hard to please. When we don't change anything, they complain. When we change lots of things, they complain. It's obvious that some here are just wedded to getting their particular brand of change.

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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #172 on: March 26, 2016, 07:27:23 pm »

Are we still pretending to care about Turkisblau's trolling? I hadn't noticed.
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Türkisblau
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« Reply #173 on: March 26, 2016, 07:36:04 pm »

Are we still pretending to care about Turkisblau's trolling? I hadn't noticed.

Your mismanagement and destructive behavior has caused far more harm than I ever could have done!
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #174 on: March 26, 2016, 07:37:04 pm »

I offer the following amendment:

Quote
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Quite plainly, this amendment allows the president to appoint the Chief Justice from among the existing justices. I limited his choices to the two federal Justices (as the Associate Justices already have two jobs), but I'd be willing to change that if the Convention would prefer.

Delegates have 24 hours to object.
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