Balance of Power II (Poll) - Ready for a new game

[Lumine]

Okay, since we're having some various issues with the game I've decided to start this poll to make a collective decision on the matter. Options are fairly obvious, with the clarification that suspend/restart would imply the game taking a few days of a rest and then restarting (from the beginning, resuming the current situation or even on a different context if the interest is there).

Anyway, 48 hours for this, please comment if you have voted!

[windjammer]

Everyone is busy. So I voted restart later.

[NeverAgain]

Option 2. For me personally, I have had about 3 weeks of hell and have not been able to focus. I really love the game and would love to continue playing, just not at this present time.

[Lumine]

Option 2. For me personally, I have had about 3 weeks of hell and have not been able to focus. I really love the game and would love to continue playing, just not at this present time.

Everyone is busy. So I voted restart later.

Fair enough. Just curious, by restarting you would prefer taking over from the current situation, change the date/context of the game, or leaving things as they are?

[Dereich]

My vote was to suspend. Speaking as a mod, I've only been seeing PMs from three people since turn one ended. Three active players and a bunch of zombies isn't a good formula for a fun game. It's especially frustrating when you have major players in conflicts either gone or NPCs. Several planned crises for the American Civil War, for example, are just not worth it without a USA player.

[windjammer]

Option 2. For me personally, I have had about 3 weeks of hell and have not been able to focus. I really love the game and would love to continue playing, just not at this present time.

Everyone is busy. So I voted restart later.

Fair enough. Just curious, by restarting you would prefer taking over from the current situation, change the date/context of the game, or leaving things as they are?

Well, a reboot, but keeping this period, and not necessarly keeping the same players.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I think we should start over, maybe at some diffrent point of time. The truth is current geopolitical setting is just too complex, with literally hundreds of NPC to cover and even if Lumine and Dereich could devote more time to this (and we all have more important things to handle in the RL) is still would be too lengthily of a process to keep the game going. I've always like the idea of continuing the original BoP some decades later, but it's up to Lumine what he prefers.

Despite my previous activity I simply can't be distracted now and it seems other important players can't devote much time either.

[Lumine]

Well, it's a fairly clear result, we suspend the game and then consider how to restart later on. I happen to think Kalwejt made a lot of great points, in the sense that this setting was surprisingly more complex than originally planned, which certainly was a complicated factor.

Anyway, feel free to bump this later on, once it seems plausible to have a player base larger one, or should you have any ideas or proposals.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I have no doubts Lumine and Dereich would be able to handle the complex set. But, given the sheer amount of time covering this would take, they would have to resign from pretty much every other forum activity and we would still be having weeks-long turns.

The first BoP was a smoothly running success for two reasons mostly: there was no hundreds of small NPC to cover and we were actually posting on a regular basis. And we, the players, really f**ked up on the latter.

Unless we have a team of moderators larger than a number of players, we won't be able to cover this setting.

I still think it would be cool to do a continuation of the first game (like 20-30 years later). We've already cleared a path for this and we can have most of original players (Clarence is, sadly, not around these days and Sagestalker is happily banned, though I would miss his "ZOMGZ TEUTONIC HORDES" antics).

[Lumine]

I have no doubts Lumine and Dereich would be able to handle the complex set. But, given the sheer amount of time covering this would take, they would have to resign from pretty much every other forum activity and we would still be having weeks-long turns.

The first BoP was a smoothly running success for two reasons mostly: there was no hundreds of small NPC to cover and we were actually posting on a regular basis. And we, the players, really f**ked up on the latter.

Unless we have a team of moderators larger than a number of players, we won't be able to cover this setting.

I still think it would be cool to do a continuation of the first game (like 20-30 years later). We've already cleared a path for this and we can have most of original players (Clarence is, sadly, not around these days and Sagestalker is happily banned, though I would miss his "ZOMGZ TEUTONIC HORDES" antics).

It's certainly not impossible (the sequel setting, I mean) as it would allow a large degree of freedom and would allow us to simplify everything (it seems one of my weaknesses hosting games is my ocassional obsession for detail), provided a decent base is given. I had written some thoughts of my own on the sequel a few months ago, should I post them here to see what you think?

[NeverAgain]

Something I thought would be interesting would be the end of WW1 with Versailles and the build-up to the rise of fascism.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

If we were to consider a sequel to the original BoP (let's see 20 years forward), here are some of my ideas:

United States: I don't think isolationism would pass anymore, since McKinley and Hay got the U.S. just too involved in the international affairs, interests and commitments to back away, but under some more-domestic minded administrations, there may be lesser degree of interest in pursing such an active policy. I imagine the U.S. alliance with Germany/Ottoman Empire would stand but again, level of interest may vary from administration to administration

Russia: I'd imagine that after all the s**t Russia had to take there would be a period of isolation, perhaps with an efficient and ruthless ruler using the isolation to impose reforms at all costs (kind of like Peter the Great or even Stalin)

United Kingdom: After the war, I'd imagine the British Empire going into a "splendid isolation", focusing on colonial affairs and perhaps some colonial wars of expansions in non aligned countries

France: Oh boy, that's gonna be funny. Badly humiliated after the last war and loss of possessions, France is wildly revanchist, to the extend that a fascist ideology is born here. Currently, we may have a Mussolini-style regime (perhaps under Colonel de La Rocque?) which might have been able to get some lost possessions back via diplomacy.

Germany: Germany obviously became the preeminent power in the continental Europe.

Austria-Hungary: Now, here's the new sick man of Europe with a s**tload of serious domestic and institutional problems with the government begin able to hold on due to German and Ottoman help.

Italy: It's a wild card, since Italy wasn't really aligned. Going to be fun to watch.

Japan: Still on the rise, expanding it's influence in Asia and becoming a serious naval competition to both British Empire and the United States.

Ottoman Empire: Largely reformed, retaining the position of power it achieved in the previous game. Still very closely allied with Germany and Austria-Hungary. I may reveal I was planning to get Persian Azerbaijan, but the war prevented me from realizing these plans, so it might have happened during the 20 years period that followed. Constantinopole would sure be interested in turning Hejaz into an independent and allied state and something might have been worked out with the British. The problems are Armenian and Kurdish minorities, but the real challenge are those Saudi motherf**kers in the south, becoming more and more of a nuisance.


Also, as I remember, major players were able to control the actions of lesser allies and pupper states. I'd advocate to retain this to make the game easier, but the moderators would be able to end such control.

Here how it stood when we ended:

German allies/puppets: Poland, Lithuania, Livonia, Ukraine
British allies/puppets: basically the entire commonwealth
American allies/puppets: Certain Latin American countries
Italian allies/puppets: Greece, Montenegro
Ottoman allies/puppets: Armenia, Bulgaria, Crimea (as Lumine may remember, Austria agereed to cede Crimea as a protectorate, but game ended before it was made official. Sevastopol remained Russian)

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

IIRC, there were original players:

UK: Spamage (available)
France: Dr. Cynic (haven't seen him in ages)
USA: Clarence (not around )
Germany: Windjammer (available)
Austria: Cranberry (hopefully available)
Russia; Snowstalker (banned)
Italy: Sawx (banned)
Japan: SJoyce (is he around?)
Ottoman; Yours truly

I imagine Kingpoleon might be interested in France and NeverAgain with Russia. I certainly am interested in the Ottoman Empire XD

[Cranberry]

If I might pop in shortly, I would love to see a continuation of BoP as envisioned here and would love to participate again, though just after May 13 (final written exam of high school ). Also, if I remember correctly (not sure if I do, it's two years ago), didn't I play as Germany and Windjammer as Austria?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

If I might pop in shortly, I would love to see a continuation of BoP as envisioned here and would love to participate again, though just after May 13 (final written exam of high school ). Also, if I remember correctly (not sure if I do, it's two years ago), didn't I play as Germany and Windjammer as Austria?

I believe you played Austria (after we got rid off Oldiesfreak), but Windjammer fill in for you when you were absent.

[windjammer]

Well, the problem Kalwejt is that Germany would have become too powerful to be stopped

[Kingpoleon]

The best part about being France is that all the players want an alliance with you, whether it's Russia, Prussia, the U. K., or Austria.

Lumine, I was on AH.com Shared Worlds, but my reputation there got pretty iffy. They moved to a new website.

[Cranberry]

If I might pop in shortly, I would love to see a continuation of BoP as envisioned here and would love to participate again, though just after May 13 (final written exam of high school ). Also, if I remember correctly (not sure if I do, it's two years ago), didn't I play as Germany and Windjammer as Austria?

I believe you played Austria (after we got rid off Oldiesfreak), but Windjammer fill in for you when you were absent.

No, I really did play as Germany. I remember that I f-ed up big at the beginning, than had Windjammer play for a short time as Germany while I was absent, yes; but in the end I was again Germany, and Windjammer took over Austria.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

If I might pop in shortly, I would love to see a continuation of BoP as envisioned here and would love to participate again, though just after May 13 (final written exam of high school ). Also, if I remember correctly (not sure if I do, it's two years ago), didn't I play as Germany and Windjammer as Austria?

I believe you played Austria (after we got rid off Oldiesfreak), but Windjammer fill in for you when you were absent.

No, I really did play as Germany. I remember that I f-ed up big at the beginning, than had Windjammer play for a short time as Germany while I was absent, yes; but in the end I was again Germany, and Windjammer took over Austria.

I'm sorry, you're right. I was confused because windjammer was around all the time, but mostly as assistant GM,.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Well, the problem Kalwejt is that Germany would have become too powerful to be stopped

Something may be devised to make it more even, like giving some major problems for victorious powers (I mean Germany, U.S. and the Ottomans). In Germany's case it may be problem to hold their rule in puppet states like Poland and Lithuania. As of the Ottoman Empire I already mentioned Saudi assholes and the Kurds. The United States may have problems in the Pacific, such as naval rivarly with Japan and dissent in Latin America.

[Lumine]

It seems I've lost most of my notes for that potential sequel, but I've saved a few details. All in all, plans back there had a sequel being called "The Sword of Damocles", set in 1932, around 25 years after the Treaty of Amsterdam (1907, the one restablishing an uneasy peace in Europe):

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Pretty much. For irony points I envisioned it as the bastion of democracy, with the Reichstag eventually winning more powers as Wilhelm III proves much friendlier than his father, perhaps a short lived SPD led coalition manages to liberalize the country a bit more during the 1920's. The current government (getting closer to constitutional monarchy) would be a Zentrum led grand coalition, with Marx, Brüning or Adenauer as possible Chancellors. Alternatively, it could be a militaristic regime ala OTL Japan, trying to hold onto the eastern ermpire they have carved out, but the Democracy idea is more interesting.

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Yes, the Empire would be mostly isolated and not having as much tension with the colonies as the strain of WWI never was there. For fun, I wanted 1932 to see the first Labour victory in a General Election, giving us... reformist, charismatic and popular Prime Minister Oswald Mosley.

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As stated by the end of the first game, the US public learnt that McKinley had William Jennings Bryan killed, leading to the complete, utter collapse of the Republicans in 1912. To make matters worse, La Follette was president then, bringing the progressive wing down as well. So broadly speaking the US would probably see a lot of turnmoil trying to turn the clock back and abandon interventionism and executive abuse. Assuming the US to go under a heavy economic and social crisis, I devised three routes to make things different: Route 1: a MacArthur led Junta. Route 2: A stronger US left in response to the actions of the GOP and Democratic independence, leaving us with President Upton Sinclair (?). Route 3: Isolationism becomes the leading force in politics, and we have President Henry Ford.

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Toughest of them all, Russia is such a wildcard... I didn't want to go with an extremely powerful dictatorship and neither I wanted the USSR, so I considered having Russia implode during the 1910's or 1920's and still be divided in a number of states. You could have a rump Tsarist state under young Alexis II (not suffering from his OTL disease) and an ambitious First Minister, a Ukranian Hetmanate or anarchist state, a minor Republican state in say, Arkhangelsk, aTransbaikal state led by Kolchak or some other warlord, a lot of other warlords across Siberia (we could even have an OTL Nazi leading German Volga), minor independent states in the Caucasus (like Kaiserreich, a Stalin or Beria led Georgia would be fun), and so on.

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YES! You can't go wrong with revanchist fascist France, the idea is just too much fun. I never settled on a dictator (De Gaulle is too obvious and too unlikely to ever rise to power in a different world), but I considered Franchet d’Esperey as a Hindenburg-style puppet President and a younger officer ruling France to... greatness, so to speak.

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The "sick man" analogy is a very good one. I considered having the Empire collapse like Russia, but the whole area is such a mess... I did consider Charles I being monarch of Austria (or the Empire, if still ongoing), and I speculated around a Chancellor Hitler, but of Austria.

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Well, I settled on Italy for the country with a succesful revolution. By my original plan, Italy was to be turned into a "Roman Commune", with Gramsci being a martyr of the revolution that serves as a Lenin analogy. His successor, General Secretary Bordiga, would take whatever parts of Gramsci's writings he liked, ignore the rest, add something from his own and settle with Gramcist-Socialism. This is, of course, a very insane idea, but it was fun.

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Yes, the only change I thought of here was Japan going democratic and facing the trouble of Korea and Philippines (whether to federalize), with Hamaguchi as PM and Hirohito as Emperor.

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I can get behind this, all I got done on the Ottomans was another militaristic regime led by Enver Pasha. Chances are you could combine and make Enver Pasha an extremely effective dictator leading the Ottomans to renewed prominence despite some internal trouble, having a puppet sultan (Mehmed VI).

Beyond that, I decided to make anarchism a far more powerful force than OTL (not because of Kaiserreich, though, although its Syndicalism is fascinating), set back the nuclear arms race to far, far beyond, have China go a different civil war in which monarchism is very much alive... and that's probably it, I never got beyond basic ideas and a minor list of tentative heads of state.

[Kingpoleon]

The SoD sounds interesting. I'd suggest waiting about two months for summer for much higher activity.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

This is great, Lumine!

I'm not wild about the U.S. going full isolationist, since it would make game a bit more boring. Military junta or a leftist government are, on the other hand, extremely fascinating ideas (as a player, I'd probably favor the junta, politically, I'd obviously favor the left-wing government). I'd certainly want German-Ottoman alliance to hold at the start, given we won the last war. 

As of Germany, a dual nature of the government would be interesting: liberal at home and more militaristic in foreign policy and in regard to eastern puppet states.

As of Russia, a breakup is interesting, but I'd certainly keep one of these states (preferably the strongest one) as playable.


Also, I must agree with Kingpoleon: if we go with this, we should wait until we can be more committed.

[Cranberry]

I can add to that, great ideas! I'd absolutely love to return playing as Germany (but as said, not really before mid-May) in such a game. I like your ideas regarding Germany as a centre of democracy - should the player than rather be the Kanzler instead of the Kaiser?

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I understand if I take the Ottoman Empire, I'd play as Enver Pasha instead of Sultan.