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Author Topic: Bill of Rights (PASSED)  (Read 8738 times)
Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
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« on: March 31, 2016, 06:49:10 pm »
« edited: April 12, 2016, 11:06:11 pm by Senator Truman »


Hear ye! Hear ye! Having seen the adoption of the Article establishing the judicial branch of this government, the Convention will now proceed to address the federal Bill of Rights. In the interests of timeliness, we will go about composing this particular Article in a highly streamlined manner, so listen up:

Beginning immediately, and continuing for exactly 48 hours, every delegate will be allowed to propose Rights that they believe should be included in the Constitution. At the end of said 48 hours, we will immediately proceed to a principle vote: all those rights endorsed by a majority of voting delegates will be included in the final document.

I now open the floor for debate.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
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« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2016, 08:02:11 pm »

My proposals:

All persons born or naturalized in the Republic of Atlasia, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the Republic of Atlasia and of the Region in which they reside, and shall in all cases be afforded equal protection under the law.

Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech, nor of the press, nor withholding the freedom to peaceably assemble and to petition for the redress of grievances.

Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, nor obstructing the freedom of worship.

The right of citizens of the Republic of Atlasia to vote shall not be denied, except in regards to persons whose account is fewer than 168 hours old, or in consequence of failing to meet such requirements for activity as may be established by law.

No person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.

Neither slavery, nor involuntary servitude, except as punishment for crimes of which the accused has been duly convicted, shall exist within the Republic of Atlasia, nor in any place under its jurisdiction.

No citizen shall be subjected to warrantless search or seizure of the persons, homes, records, or possessions, and no warrants shall be issued without probable cause, supported by oath of affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

No person accused of crimes under the laws of this Republic, or of the several Regions, shall be compelled to bear witness against himself, nor subjected to excessive bail, nor cruel or unusual punishment.

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall have right to a speedy and public trial by an impartial jury of their peers in the Region wherein the crime shall have been committed, to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation, to be confronted with the witnesses against him, to have a compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel in his defense.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the armed forces.

In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any court of the Republic of Atlasia.

The enumeration of certain rights in this Constitution shall not be construed as to deny or disparage those natural rights and liberties herein unlisted.

(Keep in mind that the RL 10th Amendment has already been adopted as part of the Article on the Regions.)
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
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« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2016, 11:13:29 pm »

May I suggest we only vote on one right at a time? It will still go by pretty quickly.
Considering that there will likely be ~20 or so clauses before we're done, I'm afraid I can't allow that. This is the process we used to enumerate the powers of the executive and legislative branches (another section with multiple clauses all pertaining to the same subject), so we'll stay the course for this as well.

I've yet to comb through the current document, but how many of these are transferred over/how many are new proposals?
This is mainly based on the U.S. Bill of Rights, plus the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments to that Constitution. I haven't yet scanned through the BoR in the current Constitution, but I expect there's a healthy amount of overlap.

I also would like something allowing the ownership of guns in the bill of rights and a admendment banning late term abortion. But I would be fine with the first and not the second
I'm okay with a right to bear arms, but under no circumstances should this Convention take on the abortion issue. We were elected for the express purpose of overhauling the national government, and as such I do not believe we have the appropriate mandate to tackle such controversial issues on which the Atlasian public is so sharply divided. Any attempt to enshrine a particular ideology in stone would be a serious betrayal of the trust placed in this body by the Atlasian people.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
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« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2016, 06:40:18 pm »

The period for proposals having expired, we will now proceed with a principle vote on the Bill of Rights. Please vote AYE, NAY, or Abstain on each of the following proposals. Voting will last 48 hours or until all delegates have voted.


OFFICIAL BALLOT
Principle Vote on the Bill of Rights

1. "All persons born or naturalized in the Republic of Atlasia, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the Republic of Atlasia and of the Region in which they reside, and shall in all cases be afforded equal protection under the law."
[   ] AYE     [   ] NAY     [   ] Abstain

2. "Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech, nor of the press, nor withholding the freedom to peaceably assemble and to petition for the redress of grievances."
[   ] AYE     [   ] NAY     [   ] Abstain

3. "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, nor obstructing the freedom of worship."
[   ] AYE     [   ] NAY     [   ] Abstain

4. "The right of citizens of the Republic of Atlasia to vote shall not be denied, except in regards to persons whose account is fewer than 168 hours old, or in consequence of failing to meet such requirements for activity as may be established by law."
[   ] AYE     [   ] NAY     [   ] Abstain

5. "No person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law."
[   ] AYE     [   ] NAY     [   ] Abstain

6. "Neither slavery, nor involuntary servitude, except as punishment for crimes of which the accused has been duly convicted, shall exist within the Republic of Atlasia, nor in any place under its jurisdiction."
[   ] AYE     [   ] NAY     [   ] Abstain

7. "A well-regulated militia being necessary for the security of a free people, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be withheld."

8. "No citizen shall be subjected to warrantless search or seizure of the persons, homes, records, or possessions, and no warrants shall be issued without probable cause, supported by oath of affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
[   ] AYE     [   ] NAY     [   ] Abstain

9. "No person accused of crimes under the laws of this Republic, or of the several Regions, shall be compelled to bear witness against himself, nor subjected to excessive bail, nor cruel or unusual punishment."
[   ] AYE     [   ] NAY     [   ] Abstain

10. "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall have right to a speedy and public trial by an impartial jury of their peers in the Region wherein the crime shall have been committed, to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation, to be confronted with the witnesses against him, to have a compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel in his defense."
[   ] AYE     [   ] NAY     [   ] Abstain

11. "No person shall be held to answer for a capital or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the armed forces."
[   ] AYE     [   ] NAY     [   ] Abstain

12. "In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any court of the Republic of Atlasia."
[   ] AYE     [   ] NAY     [   ] Abstain

13. "The enumeration of certain rights in this Constitution shall not be construed as to deny or disparage those natural rights and liberties herein unlisted."
[   ] AYE     [   ] NAY     [   ] Abstain
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
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Posts: 10,536


« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2016, 06:48:14 pm »


OFFICIAL BALLOT
Principle Vote on the Bill of Rights

1. "All persons born or naturalized in the Republic of Atlasia, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the Republic of Atlasia and of the Region in which they reside, and shall in all cases be afforded equal protection under the law."
[ X ] AYE     [   ] NAY     [   ] Abstain

2. "Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech, nor of the press, nor withholding the freedom to peaceably assemble and to petition for the redress of grievances."
[ X ] AYE     [   ] NAY     [   ] Abstain

3. "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, nor obstructing the freedom of worship."
[ X ] AYE     [   ] NAY     [   ] Abstain

4. "The right of citizens of the Republic of Atlasia to vote shall not be denied, except in regards to persons whose account is fewer than 168 hours old, or in consequence of failing to meet such requirements for activity as may be established by law."
[ X ] AYE     [   ] NAY     [   ] Abstain

5. "No person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law."
[ X ] AYE     [   ] NAY     [   ] Abstain

6. "Neither slavery, nor involuntary servitude, except as punishment for crimes of which the accused has been duly convicted, shall exist within the Republic of Atlasia, nor in any place under its jurisdiction."
[ X ] AYE     [   ] NAY     [   ] Abstain

7. "A well-regulated militia being necessary for the security of a free people, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be withheld."
[   ] AYE     [   ] NAY     [  X ] Abstain

8. "No citizen shall be subjected to warrantless search or seizure of the persons, homes, records, or possessions, and no warrants shall be issued without probable cause, supported by oath of affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
[ X ] AYE     [   ] NAY     [   ] Abstain

9. "No person accused of crimes under the laws of this Republic, or of the several Regions, shall be compelled to bear witness against himself, nor subjected to excessive bail, nor cruel or unusual punishment."
[ X ] AYE     [   ] NAY     [   ] Abstain

10. "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall have right to a speedy and public trial by an impartial jury of their peers in the Region wherein the crime shall have been committed, to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation, to be confronted with the witnesses against him, to have a compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel in his defense."
[ X ] AYE     [   ] NAY     [   ] Abstain

11. "No person shall be held to answer for a capital or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the armed forces."
[ X ] AYE     [   ] NAY     [   ] Abstain

12. "In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any court of the Republic of Atlasia."
[ X ] AYE     [   ] NAY     [   ] Abstain

13. "The enumeration of certain rights in this Constitution shall not be construed as to deny or disparage those natural rights and liberties herein unlisted."
[ X ] AYE     [   ] NAY     [   ] Abstain

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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
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Posts: 10,536


« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2016, 06:54:35 pm »

I'm sorry but I think the time amount wasn't long enough. Two days for proposals then a final vote isn't fair but with this I vote NAY on all unless we have a time extension for more proposals.
Um, this is the exact same amount of time that was given for proposing Legislative and Executive powers. I don't see why we should break precedent for this particular Article, especially seeing as virtually none of these proposals are in any way controversial.

Anyways, if you thought the time provided "wasn't fair," why didn't you say something in your earlier post? The OP made it very clear that the proposal period would last for 48 hours.

As for JCL's edits, I'm fine if people want to make syntactical edits to the proposals in their votes and/or write in additional options, so long as it doesn't get out of hand.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
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Posts: 10,536


« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2016, 08:58:40 pm »

I'm with JCL on the withheld/infringed thing, also I made an addition to #6 to further underline that mandatory "service" is not allowed.
A blanket ban on the draft? I don't know... I don't think we're going to be in a major war anytime soon, but if one were to arise, it might be necessary to draft non-criminals into the armed forces.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
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Posts: 10,536


« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2016, 10:48:14 am »

As for JCL's edits, I'm fine if people want to make syntactical edits to the proposals in their votes and/or write in additional options, so long as it doesn't get out of hand.

You know that's going to happen - kind of already is. How are we going to count different variations of each when there may only be 1 or 2 people advocating for that particular change?
Good point. The edits won't affect the results of this particular principle vote - they merely let me know which sections of the BoR are complete and which need adjustments before we move to a final vote. If one of these proposals passes "with edits," we will hold a second principle vote between the amended proposal and the original version.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
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« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2016, 07:24:17 pm »

RESULTS of the FIRST PRINCIPLE VOTE on the BILL OF RIGHTS
Number of Delegates Voting: 20

1. "All persons born or naturalized in the Republic of Atlasia, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the Republic of Atlasia and of the Region in which they reside, and shall in all cases be afforded equal protection under the law."
PASSED without edits

2. "Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech, nor of the press, nor withholding the freedom to peaceably assemble and to petition for the redress of grievances."
PASSED without edits

3. "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, nor obstructing the freedom of worship."
PASSED with edits

4. "The right of citizens of the Republic of Atlasia to vote shall not be denied, except in regards to persons whose account is fewer than 168 hours old, or in consequence of failing to meet such requirements for activity as may be established by law."
PASSED without edits

5. "No person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law."
PASSED without edits

6. "Neither slavery, nor involuntary servitude, except as punishment for crimes of which the accused has been duly convicted, shall exist within the Republic of Atlasia, nor in any place under its jurisdiction."
PASSED with edits

7. "A well-regulated militia being necessary for the security of a free people, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be withheld."
PASSED with edits

8. "No citizen shall be subjected to warrantless search or seizure of the persons, homes, records, or possessions, and no warrants shall be issued without probable cause, supported by oath of affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
PASSED without edits

9. "No person accused of crimes under the laws of this Republic, or of the several Regions, shall be compelled to bear witness against himself, nor subjected to excessive bail, nor cruel or unusual punishment."
PASSED without edits

10. "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall have right to a speedy and public trial by an impartial jury of their peers in the Region wherein the crime shall have been committed, to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation, to be confronted with the witnesses against him, to have a compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel in his defense."
PASSED without edits

11. "No person shall be held to answer for a capital or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the armed forces."
PASSED without edits

12. "In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any court of the Republic of Atlasia."
PASSED without edits

13. "The enumeration of certain rights in this Constitution shall not be construed as to deny or disparage those natural rights and liberties herein unlisted."
PASSED without edits



Three proposals (numbers 3, 6, and 7) passed "with edits" - that is, at least one delegate who voted "AYE" proposed some alteration to the text. Therefore, we will proceed with a second principle vote between the edited and original versions momentarily.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
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*****
Posts: 10,536


« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2016, 07:44:33 pm »

Voting will last 48 hours or until all delegates have voted.


OFFICIAL BALLOT
2nd Principle Vote on the Bill of Rights


Question 1: Freedom of Religion
[   ] Proposal A: "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, nor obstructing the freedom of worship."
[   ] Proposal B: ""Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, nor prohibiting the free excersise thereof."
[   ] Abstain



Question 2: No Slavery
[   ] Proposal A: "Neither slavery, nor involuntary servitude, except as punishment for crimes of which the accused has been duly convicted, shall exist within the Republic of Atlasia, nor in any place under its jurisdiction."
[   ] Proposal B: "Neither slavery, nor involuntary servitude, including any form of compulsory national service or military conscription, except as punishment for crimes of which the accused has been duly convicted, shall exist within the Republic of Atlasia, nor in any place under its jurisdiction."
[   ] Abstain



Question 3: Right to Bear Arms
[   ] Proposal A: "A well-regulated militia being necessary for the security of a free people, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be withheld."
[   ] Proposal B: "A well-regulated militia being necessary for the security of a free people, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
[   ] Abstain


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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Politician
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 10,536


« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2016, 07:54:30 pm »


OFFICIAL BALLOT
2nd Principle Vote on the Bill of Rights


Question 1: Freedom of Religion
[ X ] Proposal A: "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, nor obstructing the freedom of worship."
[   ] Proposal B: ""Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, nor prohibiting the free excersise thereof."
[   ] Abstain



Question 2: No Slavery
[ X ] Proposal A: "Neither slavery, nor involuntary servitude, except as punishment for crimes of which the accused has been duly convicted, shall exist within the Republic of Atlasia, nor in any place under its jurisdiction."
[   ] Proposal B: "Neither slavery, nor involuntary servitude, including any form of compulsory national service or military conscription, except as punishment for crimes of which the accused has been duly convicted, shall exist within the Republic of Atlasia, nor in any place under its jurisdiction."
[   ] Abstain



Question 3: Right to Bear Arms
[   ] Proposal A: "A well-regulated militia being necessary for the security of a free people, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be withheld."
[   ] Proposal B: "A well-regulated militia being necessary for the security of a free people, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
[ X ] Abstain



Questions 1 and 3 are essentially semantics arguments - I personally think the original versions of both are clearer, but I'm not fussed. I do feel strongly that Option 2B is ill advised - were Atlasia to become involved in a major war, this would significantly hinder our ability to mobilize.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Politician
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 10,536


« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2016, 10:11:41 pm »

RESULTS of the 2ND PRINCIPLE VOTE on the BILL OF RIGHTS
Question 1: Proposal A (5), Proposal B (5), Abstain (0)

Question 2: Proposal A (6), Proposal B (4), Abstain (0)

Question 3: Proposal A (1), Proposal B (7), Abstain (2)



Yay, another tie... Tongue Okay, I'm going to treat Question 1 as an amendment (since it was essentially a vote on whether or not to change the original text of Proposition 3). Therefore, per established precedent, Question 1(B) has FAILED, meaning in effect that 1(A) has been sustained.

On Question 2, Proposal A has been ADOPTED; on Question 3, Proposal B has been ADOPTED.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
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*****
Posts: 10,536


« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2016, 07:29:52 pm »

Here is the current text for this Article:

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

I tend to agree with Bore than anything more than this would remove issues from the public sphere that might otherwise make for lively debate topics, so I motion for a final vote. Delegates have 24 hours to object.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Politician
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 10,536


« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2016, 10:15:35 pm »

Seeing no objection, a FINAL VOTE is now open on this Article. Please vote AYE, NAY, or Abstain. Voting will last 48 hours or until all delegates have voted.

For reference, the full text of this Article may be read here.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
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Posts: 10,536


« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2016, 10:22:08 pm »

AYE!
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
Harry S Truman
Atlas Politician
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 10,536


« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2016, 11:03:42 pm »

By a vote of 19 Ayes and one abstention, this Article has been ADOPTED.

As such, I declare debate to be closed in this thread.
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