Do you think "cross-family conversions" are OK?
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  Do you think "cross-family conversions" are OK?
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Question: Do you think "cross-family conversions" are OK?
#1
Yes, as is any religious conversion that isn't done by coercion or force
 
#2
Yes, but converting to something outside of your family's background entirely is not OK
 
#3
It depends entirely on the reason for it
 
#4
No
 
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Total Voters: 31

Author Topic: Do you think "cross-family conversions" are OK?  (Read 1074 times)
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« on: March 14, 2022, 05:03:22 PM »

What I'm referring to doesn't really have a name but it's quite common, so I'll have to describe it here.

Basically imagine a mixed marriage: Parent A belongs to religion/denomination X, Parent B belongs to religion/denomination Y. Parents have kids. They agree to raise them in one parent's religion (usually the mother's honestly.) So we'll assume that Parent A is the mother and Parent B is the father. Child is raised in religion/denomination X.

Then the child grows up and decides based on their experiences they prefer the father (Parent B)'s religions/denomination Y for whatever reason. So they just basically "convert" very casually, they simply stop affiliating or associating with religion/denomination X entirely and identify as Y. They may not be a very active or practicing member, possibly even just a "Christmas/Easter" type (using Christian examples for familiarity purpose), but they obviously weren't an active or practicing member of X, basically just shifting their nominal affiliation based on whatever grounds. Let's also assume those grounds are somewhat trivial, or what many people here consider trivial, like politics or preferring the music of Y or because they had some disagreement with a doctrine of X they don't even want to bother trying to work around, etc. etc.

I bring this up because I remember once someone in Dischord or IRC saying something like "if you're any religion other than your parents' or perhaps your spouse, that's not good", in this case you technically are of one of your parents' but not whatever you were raised in...anyway this happens all the time in the Midwest and isn't even particularly controversial, probably because we have so many mixed marriages to begin with but probably isn't as common elsewhere.

But let's use more specific examples: Parent A (mother) is Catholic and Parent B (father) is Episcopalian...kids are brought up Catholic, but then one becomes a teenager and thinks "Wait my dad's church is so much better, it's basically the same thing except it's fine with gays and has female priests, so I'm just going to be that instead" and then completely sheds all vestiges of their Catholic identity and just tell their parents they're going to say they're Episcopalian from now on....even if the father was a purely nominal and non-practicing Episcopalian to begin with, it's the politics and fitting their identity that attracted them, not the "culture" or whatever. Because I know THAT reason gets some people here really triggered for who knows what reason (and as I've noted this is like the one place on the Internet where that's the case, it's completely alien to Reddit and I can't even find it on the ultimate cesspool of hot takes: Twitter), so is it OK in this example because they have some family and ethnic background regardless? And if it's OK is it also OK for someone from a fully Catholic family to do this?

Also let's flip the scenario: the raised Episcopalian kid decides to just identify as Catholic, either because they're more socially conservative and find their social mores more in touch with Catholicism or because they prefer the culture and history of Catholicism or whatever. Does that change the answer?

My answer is obvious: It's totally fine, as is converting even if neither of your parents are that, and any reason you give is totally justifiable as well, (that obviously doesn't mean that I'll approve of or endorse said conversion like in the second flipped scenario but it's also not up to me to say if it's right), but I'm far more conversion-friendly and supportive of "church shopping" than almost anyone else here.
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Figueira
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« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2022, 05:43:25 PM »

Voted for Option 3, but I wouldn't base my opinion of someone's religious conversion on how it relates to their parents' religions. The only way I'd have a problem with it is if I had a problem with the religion itself or if it was a cult or something. Or if, say, they converted to Catholicism because they hate gay people (whereas someone converting to Catholicism for aesthetic reasons, I would have more respect for).

I didn't know that anyone had this specific hangup. Are these religious people that have this problem, or non-religious people?
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« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2022, 06:56:58 PM »

Voted for Option 3, but I wouldn't base my opinion of someone's religious conversion on how it relates to their parents' religions. The only way I'd have a problem with it is if I had a problem with the religion itself or if it was a cult or something. Or if, say, they converted to Catholicism because they hate gay people (whereas someone converting to Catholicism for aesthetic reasons, I would have more respect for).

I didn't know that anyone had this specific hangup. Are these religious people that have this problem, or non-religious people?
If by "this specific hangup" you mean "conversion is bad" mostly non-religious here actually.
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LabourJersey
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« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2022, 08:23:30 PM »

It's definitely okay. I don't really see why someone would not think it's okay?

Though I suppose it might be a little awkward if raising the children in one parent's religion was a very specific decision or compromise in the marriage, only for one of the kids to go the reverse way. But I don't see that being an actual issue (unless like Figueria suggested that the religion in question was something like Scientology or whatnot). 
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ExtremeRepublican
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« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2022, 01:19:41 AM »

My dad is Catholic, and my mom's parents are Baptist (my mom is an atheist).  I was raised a semi-observant Catholic, went through an atheist phase, and then went to a Baptist church after I accepted Christ.  Now I go to a non-denominational church, but it's pretty similar to a Baptist church except for being a touch more Charismatic (nothing like Pentecostals, though).

So, ignoring my atheism phase, I did go from being raised in my dad's religion to believing in my mom's (parents') faith- albeit with some theological differences.
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Figueira
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« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2022, 04:27:26 PM »

Voted for Option 3, but I wouldn't base my opinion of someone's religious conversion on how it relates to their parents' religions. The only way I'd have a problem with it is if I had a problem with the religion itself or if it was a cult or something. Or if, say, they converted to Catholicism because they hate gay people (whereas someone converting to Catholicism for aesthetic reasons, I would have more respect for).

I didn't know that anyone had this specific hangup. Are these religious people that have this problem, or non-religious people?
If by "this specific hangup" you mean "conversion is bad" mostly non-religious here actually.

Sounds like atheists who just want an excuse to criticize religion? I wouldn't read any more into it then.
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satsuma
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« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2022, 04:45:10 PM »

If I became Catholic I'd be an example of this 😆 It's fine, whatever, if I believed it were the best, I'd have as much right to be Catholic as anyone.

Religions are simultaneously (1) a faith, (2) an organizing principle of society, and (3) a hereditary social club. If you think about it primarily in terms of (3), you'll be more suspicious of converts, but if a religion takes itself seriously as (1) or (2), I think it's clear that it should accept honest converts.
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afleitch
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« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2022, 08:39:19 AM »

I don't really get why this would be particularly objectionable.

My dad was raised Protestant, but essentially non religious when he had to promise the priest to let his children be raised Catholic in order to marry my mum and we all were but are now all non religious.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2022, 11:21:23 AM »

     It's perfectly fine. I converted to something outside of my family background because I was persuaded it was the truth, and that is the fundamental reason anyone should adhere to any religion.
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DaleCooper
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« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2022, 01:17:48 PM »

This is so convoluted that it's best if everybody in the family just gives up.
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Santander
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« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2022, 08:16:07 PM »

Anyone can practice any religion for any reason. (believes in freedom)
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« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2022, 09:13:08 AM »

Anyone can practice any religion for any reason. (believes in freedom)
It's kind of bizarre that such a basic and obvious point is missed by so many people here (especially if they're from Ireland.)
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« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2022, 11:31:29 AM »

For the record my favorite example of this was mentioning in IRC/Discord something about a Jewish Minnesota DFL State Representative who actually converted to Judaism even though she has no type of Jewish background at all (her last name is pretty Jewish but only because it's her married name and she converted before she met her now husband) who is kind of notable because she represents an area with a bit of an unfortunate history of anti-Semitism in the 50s and 60s. And someone was like "what the hell? You can't convert to Judaism." And it was pointed out the obvious that people can convert to Judaism, they just don't actively seek converts. And then "But that doesn't make sense, why would someone with no cultural background in Judaism convert?" and it was obvious the idea of someone converting to a religion that doesn't match their ethnic background broke their mind and they couldn't comprehend it...which is rather surreal. Also noticed this crowd also finds it strange when there are Catholics from a sort of WASPy background and has even said they aren't "real Catholics" for a near verbatim quote here. Very strange.
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« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2022, 08:18:29 AM »
« Edited: March 18, 2022, 11:20:42 AM by Scott 🇺🇦 »

My parents would definitely fall under this category, and even myself (baptized in a UCC church out of convenience/Mom's dislike for local Catholic priests, and I started converting to Anglicanism during college). My mom was lapsed Catholic and my dad was baptized Presbyterian but was an atheist for most of his life until his NDE. I was raised "Catholic" in all but name/church attendance/confirmation, because my dad hated organized religion.

The Church married my parents on the condition that any children would be raised in the Catholic faith, but the priest, whom both my parents insisted was in the closet, basically told them "Do what you think is right." I was baptized in both a church and privately by my mom with her father instructing her over the phone. She ended up rejecting Limbo as a concept though as most of the rest of the Church did.

EDIT: Misunderstood the thread title. There was no cross-family conversion even though my mom would have preferred it. The empty promise to raise kids in the Catholic faith was all that was necessary to marry a non-Catholic.
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TDAS04
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« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2022, 02:54:43 PM »

I sort of fall into that category, as I follow the religion of my mother's side of the family, though she's actually quite flexible when it comes to religion.  My father wanted me to be his religion, but he's generally okay with how things are now.
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« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2022, 10:14:46 PM »

But let's use more specific examples: Parent A (mother) is Catholic and Parent B (father) is Episcopalian...kids are brought up Catholic, but then one becomes a teenager and thinks "Wait my dad's church is so much better, it's basically the same thing except it's fine with gays and has female priests, so I'm just going to be that instead" and then completely sheds all vestiges of their Catholic identity and just tell their parents they're going to say they're Episcopalian from now on....even if the father was a purely nominal and non-practicing Episcopalian to begin with, it's the politics and fitting their identity that attracted them, not the "culture" or whatever. Because I know THAT reason gets some people here really triggered for who knows what reason (and as I've noted this is like the one place on the Internet where that's the case, it's completely alien to Reddit and I can't even find it on the ultimate cesspool of hot takes: Twitter), so is it OK in this example because they have some family and ethnic background regardless? And if it's OK is it also OK for someone from a fully Catholic family to do this?
Liberal Catholics converting to ECUSA is a widely accepted tenet of cultural Catholicism.

That said, your scenario here doesn't really make any sense — it is always, at some level, about the culture. That's why you get Catholics specifically converting to the Episcopal Church, it's a place that is culturally (and liturgically, etc) comfortable for Catholics to a degree that many other denominations are not.
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« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2022, 11:50:19 PM »

But let's use more specific examples: Parent A (mother) is Catholic and Parent B (father) is Episcopalian...kids are brought up Catholic, but then one becomes a teenager and thinks "Wait my dad's church is so much better, it's basically the same thing except it's fine with gays and has female priests, so I'm just going to be that instead" and then completely sheds all vestiges of their Catholic identity and just tell their parents they're going to say they're Episcopalian from now on....even if the father was a purely nominal and non-practicing Episcopalian to begin with, it's the politics and fitting their identity that attracted them, not the "culture" or whatever. Because I know THAT reason gets some people here really triggered for who knows what reason (and as I've noted this is like the one place on the Internet where that's the case, it's completely alien to Reddit and I can't even find it on the ultimate cesspool of hot takes: Twitter), so is it OK in this example because they have some family and ethnic background regardless? And if it's OK is it also OK for someone from a fully Catholic family to do this?
Liberal Catholics converting to ECUSA is a widely accepted tenet of cultural Catholicism.

That said, your scenario here doesn't really make any sense — it is always, at some level, about the culture. That's why you get Catholics specifically converting to the Episcopal Church, it's a place that is culturally (and liturgically, etc) comfortable for Catholics to a degree that many other denominations are not.
But what about the many ex-Catholics at my church (and many others like it)? Which is about as opposite of Catholicism as you can get in Christianity.
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Ferguson97
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« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2022, 04:13:36 PM »

Anyone can practice any religion for any reason. (believes in freedom)
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Alben Barkley
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« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2022, 04:55:42 PM »

Bizarre question. Anyone has the right in this country to practice whatever religious beliefs they want (unless those beliefs violate the rights of others, like death cults and certain extremist Islamist groups) for whatever reason they want. We don't have apostasy laws here. And it would be far more wrong morally in my opinion for parents to disown a kid for changing religions than for the kid to change religions in the first place. The latter is not wrong at all. I was raised evangelical, am agnostic, if I became Catholic or even Jewish or whatever now it's none of my parents' concern. Faith is a deeply personal thing. There are obviously social elements to religion as well, and it's not surprising that many people convert to their spouse's faith (especially if it's more important to the spouse than themselves). But again, whatever the reason, it doesn't matter. Freedom of religion is one of the first rights enshrined in the US Constitution for a reason.
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