Should underage male (non-medical) circumcision be banned?

[MalaspinaGold]

Yes.

Glad to see anti-Semitic arguments being agreed with, with no new reasoning being presented.

http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org/

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/even-in-israel-more-and-more-parents-choose-not-to-circumcise-their-sons-1.436421

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Burros
Dan, is that you?

[MalaspinaGold]

Not that Jews can be confused as an ethnicity either (you can't convert into an ethnicity FFS DavidB). And indeed it would be a stretch to say that Polish Jews, Bukharian Jews, and Ethiopian Jews all share the same ethnicity. What it is is actually very complicated, but bears more resemblance to a large diffuse tribe (which would make sense, given that pre-exile the Israelites were a confederation of tribes. Then again, Jews resemble an ethnicity far more than a religion (this meme only got started during the Haskalah, or "Jewish Enlightenment, when a lot of uppity German Jews decided they wanted to pattern the Jewish people after Protestantism.*) If you asked a Jew before that, or basically any Jew in a shtetl or outside the European sphere even after that, and they wouldn't call themselves a religion.

*Among other inventions of theirs was the term "Judaism". There is no analogue in old Hebrew for this. This is, among other reasons, why I refuse to use the term whenever possible.

[MalaspinaGold]

True I know that's how Chabad for one approaches the issue (and assume that's true for the rest of the Orthodox). Then again I don't really accept that meaning for a couple reasons:
1) There is no reciprocal where someone is born "within the tribe" but doesn't actually belong to it. According to Orthodox interpretation, if you're born a Jew, you'll always be a Jew. Don't ask me why the lack of symmetry bothers me so much in this regard, but it does.
2) It's way too Calvinistic a concept for my liking.

However point taken.

[MalaspinaGold]

None of the goyim in this thread have been able to convince me how circumcision is a harmful procedure

Not a goy, so I can't help you there. However, I'll admit that it might be a moot point since there might be medical benefits (though I'm not sold on that). It's just that in principle, I am opposed to any procedure that permanently alters people because of a religion or culture they may want to leave a few years later.

Does this apply to ear piercing?

[MalaspinaGold]

People always get defensive when talking about this topic for obvious personal reasons, but just think about what the process actually involves.

What makes you think supporters of circumcision don't know "what the process actually involves"?

The fact that they are finding a way to rationalize hacking off the tip of a tiny human being's penis without consent. But you're right: Perhaps I shouldn't similarly rationalize their position by assigning them the benefit of ignorance. Some are just heartless and set in their ways because muh tradition101!

As a Jew I find all sorts of body piercings to be disgusting, heartless, disrespectful, to the human body etc. However I do not endorse banning these practices, even for minors that cannot consent (let is recall that in many cultures these are quite common). Nor do I spend time flapping my arms around crying about how HEARTLESS it is that parents are letting their children drill holes into their skin. I suggest you find something else to whine about.

[MalaspinaGold]

I'm inclined to say yes. I just think it's fundamentally wrong to do something like that and make a permanent physical alteration to an unconsenting minor. To be fair, I am somewhat sympathetic to religious arguments, but I just don't they trump the right to bodily autonomy. I think children do retain certain rights to the effect that they are not property of their parents. Admittedly, my bigger issue on the subject is the prevalence of non-religious circumcision. By far, the most common reasons in this country are to look like the father or because of culturally-derived aesthetic reasons. Those are really quite disturbing reasons to perform any cosmetic procedure on a minor child. I mean, has any son ever thought about how close his penis matches his father's? Somehow, I really doubt it.

Everyone around me that Im aware of (obviously I dont go around asking everyone this) is circumcised, for non-religious reasons.  I wasn't even aware that it was controversial in the slightest.  You learn something knew every day.

That's not surprising, considering you're from the Midwest, though I don't know how old you are. Non-medical circumcision is pretty much limited to Muslims, Jews, some African tribes, the Philippines, South Korea, and a majority of Americans. Even in the US, the current rate is now about 55%, down from about 85% in the 1960s. Prior to the 80s, it pretty much wasn't questioned. Now, it varies widely by region and by state, from 25% in the West to 75% in the Midwest and from 10% in Nevada to 90% in West Virginia.

Again, just because you find something icky is not reason to ban it.

[MalaspinaGold]

I'm still waiting for one of the intactivists to tell me what they think of punching holes in toddler's earlobes.