Liberalism at work in Aruba

[??????????]

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/nation/11994495.htm

What a joke of a justice system. It seems to me the "police" in Aruba are chasing their tails in this case.

[Democratic Hawk]

I don't know really. I don't have any experience of it

However, the guy in my sig is a young Dutch footballer, Robin van Persie (who plays for Arsenal - my favourite London team). He was released from custody on Monday after being held in a Rotterdam jail for two weeks on rape allegations (I believe he's innocent). He's in my sig as a message of solidarity

He was released on Monday, but remains a suspect; however, there are no restrictions on him, and he can return to the UK, so from that I think it's looking good. They will later decide whether to prosecute him or drop the case. He had been due to appear in court on Tuesday, where the prosecutor could have asked him, under Dutch law, to be detained for a further 90 days. I seem to the feeling that under Dutch law that should it go to trial it's down to the defence to prove innocence - but I could be wrong

It seems that there is no charging process as such in the Netherlands. Once a guy is accused of rape, he is seen to be charged and the process takes a number of stages at which the prosecutor has to prove they have enough evidence to continue. Thus, it seems there wasn't enough evidence to detain him

I vote neutral

I can't access the Philly article, without registering. Do you know if the Aruba suspects are being held under similar legal circumstances? That, is detained while the police continue their investigations

Dave

[minionofmidas]

"DemoHawk professes solidarity with rapists"


Of course, we're talking about the Aruban justice system here, not the Dutch one. They're much more independent down there than most US colonies.

[minionofmidas]

"DemoHawk professes solidarity with rapists"

I beg your pardon. He is a 'suspect', but personally I believe he is innocent.

Van Persie has admitted being in a hotel room with his accusor, who alleges he raped her in the bathroom. He has denied any wrongdoing and told his wife that "nothing happened" and by that I take it as nothing happened consensual or otherwise

Should be face trial and be found guilty then he deserves to take the consequences. Should it transpire that he had consensual sex with his accusor (i.e. he cheated on his wife) then he deserved to sweat it out a bit. Should it transpire nothing happened, then his accusor should face prosecution for making a false allegation

Either way, I hope it's taught the daft sod a lesson. Because from where I'm sitting, had he not checked into the hotel room in the first place, it would have saved himself and his wife a lot of heartache

As you well know, I'm not exactly liberal when it comes to crime and punishment - but I think the guy is innocent because he has too much lose. His wife, £25,000 per week career, .... if you get my drift

States Rights' asked my opinion of the Dutch legal system, so I gave it

So, kindly, retract your statement

Dave

Man, I was joking...thought that was obvious...if you were running for office right now though, that sig would give your opponents good rhetorical mileage.

[Democratic Hawk]

"DemoHawk professes solidarity with rapists"

I beg your pardon. He is a 'suspect', but personally I believe he is innocent.

Van Persie has admitted being in a hotel room with his accusor, who alleges he raped her in the bathroom. He has denied any wrongdoing and told his wife that "nothing happened" and by that I take it as nothing happened consensual or otherwise

Should be face trial and be found guilty then he deserves to take the consequences. Should it transpire that he had consensual sex with his accusor (i.e. he cheated on his wife) then he deserved to sweat it out a bit. Should it transpire nothing happened, then his accusor should face prosecution for making a false allegation

Either way, I hope it's taught the daft sod a lesson. Because from where I'm sitting, had he not checked into the hotel room in the first place, it would have saved himself and his wife a lot of heartache

As you well know, I'm not exactly liberal when it comes to crime and punishment - but I think the guy is innocent because he has too much lose. His wife, £25,000 per week career, .... if you get my drift

States Rights' asked my opinion of the Dutch legal system, so I gave it

So, kindly, retract your statement

Dave

Man, I was joking...thought that was obvious...if you were running for office right now though, that sig would give your opponents good rhetorical mileage.

It suddenly dawned on me that it was a joke , which is why I removed my response.  So apologise for taking it the wrong way. Thanks all the same

Dave

[minionofmidas]

No problem.

[??????????]

"DemoHawk professes solidarity with rapists"


Of course, we're talking about the Aruban justice system here, not the Dutch one. They're much more independent down there than most US colonies.

I don't know. They have been spinning it on the local media that the Aruban system is very similar to the Netherlands.

[minionofmidas]

"DemoHawk professes solidarity with rapists"


Of course, we're talking about the Aruban justice system here, not the Dutch one. They're much more independent down there than most US colonies.

I don't know. They have been spinning it on the local media that the Aruban system is very similar to the Netherlands.

That's probably true.
I'm not up to date on this story - I read, like, one article on it several days ago - but it sounded like there was some sort of shady protection involved...which is not a feature of the Dutch justice system...more a feature of Kangaroo Courts the world over. That's what I was going on about.

[??????????]

"DemoHawk professes solidarity with rapists"


Of course, we're talking about the Aruban justice system here, not the Dutch one. They're much more independent down there than most US colonies.

I don't know. They have been spinning it on the local media that the Aruban system is very similar to the Netherlands.

That's probably true.
I'm not up to date on this story - I read, like, one article on it several days ago - but it sounded like there was some sort of shady protection involved...which is not a feature of the Dutch justice system...more a feature of Kangaroo Courts the world over. That's what I was going on about.

My bigger concern is that the police/government really dropped the ball in this case. They waited to long to make and real move and probably gave the criminals a LOT of time to destroy whatever evidence their may have been and a LOT of time to all agree firmly on a story. Although, I do hear their story has been changing quite frequently.

[Beet]

Sorry states, this is NOT real news.

Actually, if there is a story here, it's the shameless destruction of the lives of thousands of Arubans by the cold, heartless media.

[??????????]

Sorry states, this is NOT real news.

Actually, if there is a story here, it's the shameless destruction of the lives of thousands of Arubans by the cold, heartless media.

So you're an apologist for kidnappers and murderers now? The left has really gone over the edge.

[Beet]

Sorry states, this is NOT real news.

Actually, if there is a story here, it's the shameless destruction of the lives of thousands of Arubans by the cold, heartless media.

So you're an apologist for kidnappers and murderers now? The left has really gone over the edge.

Yes I'm an apologist for kidnappers and murderers.

No, thousands of young children disappear every day. It's well known. It's not every day that an island that relies on tourism for 70% of its industry has its livelihood under full assault by the media.

[??????????]

Sorry states, this is NOT real news.

Actually, if there is a story here, it's the shameless destruction of the lives of thousands of Arubans by the cold, heartless media.

So you're an apologist for kidnappers and murderers now? The left has really gone over the edge.

Yes I'm an apologist for kidnappers and murderers.

No, thousands of young children disappear every day. It's well known. It's not every day that an island that relies on tourism for 70% of its industry has its livelihood under full assault by the media.

You wouldn't agree with me that the police in Aruba have completely dropped the ball? They really have done a lousy job figuring out this case. Justice comes before concerns of "tourism".

[Beet]

Sorry states, this is NOT real news.

Actually, if there is a story here, it's the shameless destruction of the lives of thousands of Arubans by the cold, heartless media.

So you're an apologist for kidnappers and murderers now? The left has really gone over the edge.

Yes I'm an apologist for kidnappers and murderers.

No, thousands of young children disappear every day. It's well known. It's not every day that an island that relies on tourism for 70% of its industry has its livelihood under full assault by the media.

You wouldn't agree with me that the police in Aruba have completely dropped the ball? They really have done a lousy job figuring out this case. Justice comes before concerns of "tourism".

Maybe because they haven't had much practice as the last disappearance in Aruba was in 1996? As I said, thousands of children disappear every day. CNN could have chosen to cover any other story that would not have caused so much damage and hardship to innocent, hardworking people. The island relies heavily on American tourism, which is nosediving.

Let me ask you something. How many innocent people are going to lose their jobs so CNN can make a bigger profit?

[freek]

He was released on Monday, but remains a suspect; however, there are no restrictions on him, and he can return to the UK, so from that I think it's looking good. They will later decide whether to prosecute him or drop the case. He had been due to appear in court on Tuesday, where the prosecutor could have asked him, under Dutch law, to be detained for a further 90 days. I seem to the feeling that under Dutch law that should it go to trial it's down to the defence to prove innocence - but I could be wrong

You are wrong. :-)  If it goes to court, the prosecution still needs to prove that Van Persie is guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Otherwise, Van Persie is free to go.

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Correct. And if new evidence arises, he can easily be detained again. Because the UK is in the European Union, an extradition procedure is not necessary.

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They are detained the same way. Only the jail is a lot crappier than in Holland. The legal system is working in the same way as in the Netherlands, only in details it is different. Dutch judges and prosecutors are working in Curacao and Aruba. The father of one of the accused boys is one of these judges, and he was arrested too last week.

[??????????]

Remember, some have said that tourism dollars are more important then actively solving this crime because "people disappear all the time". What a terrible line of thought.

[they don't love you like i love you]

He didn't say it was more important than solving the crime, just that it gets way too much media coverage. How much media coverage it gets has nothing to do with solving the crime, in fact more media coverage might make it tougher.

There are plenty of disappearance cases in the US where the police also screw up massively, that don't get any coverage outside of the local ones.

[??????????]

He didn't say it was more important than solving the crime, just that it gets way too much media coverage. How much media coverage it gets has nothing to do with solving the crime, in fact more media coverage might make it tougher.

There are plenty of disappearance cases in the US where the police also screw up massively, that don't get any coverage outside of the local ones.

The existence of "to much media" is nonsense.