Poland General Discussion

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Surprised no one posted anything about this so far.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37540139

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Poor PiS, I wonder how it will end. It is obvious that leadership of party do not wanted that project of legal act to be coped with now (or at any time probably) but I am not sure if as PiS probably will not impose voting discipline in the voting on the project and potential PiS alternative project there will be similar situation as in 2007 with Marek Jurek & co.

"OK, let's make a gesture toward part of our base by allowing this to proceed to second reading. I mean, it's not like people will care..."

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Are any other parliamentary parties supporting the ban?

I don't think any issued the "official" support, including PiS. PiS main talking point is "well, it's a citizens' initiative, so we let it proceed," (though, as mentioned by kaatak, the opposing "Ratujmy Kobiety" project did not proceed.)

I could imagine some PSL types voting in favor (if it's ever actually brought to vote), but for other opposition parties it's either "save muh abortion compromise" or liberalization. The so-called "compromise" was established in 1990s and provided abortion being allowed in "special circumstances" (like rape, incest, danger to health, etc.) Schetyna (current PO leader) proposed adding this to the constitution ("muh moderate") and received severe backlash.

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Well, they really had no choice. But worth noticing is that JarKacz wanted second project issued by "Ratujmy Kobiety" initiative to be proceeded but most of the irrelevant MPs rejected it. Now PiS have 3 MPs over necessary amount to have majority, any major break-up will lead to next elections so they must somehow cope with that project but they can't "kill it" brutally, because part of their electorate will probably not be happy and maybe drift to some other parties (to be honest I don't get it that some people really still thinks that PiS is some bulwark of Christian values etc.)

To be fair to this part of the electorate there's hardly any alternative, with LPR being eaten back in 2007 and a difficulty for any new party to break into the parliament (My facebook friend from Razem, yes, you're not "winning" the next election, lol.)

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Doesn't Kukiz oppose abortion as well?

The main difference is being between opposing "abortion on demand" and "all abortions, no exceptions." I'd need to check Kukiz, but I think he'd rather be on the former side.

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Oh yeah, and as for the minor forces in parliament there are also two groups which are not clubs but minor groups which are called "koła" and I don't know how to call them.

One, Europejscy Demokraci (4 MPs, one of its members I have on signature but probably only Kalwejt will find it funny)

Is this Kamiński?

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I thought the government had withdrawn it?

Anyway, massive FFs.

They moved it to the works in the parliamentary commission what in practice means that they will vote on that project, or its slightly changed form in some point in future.

There's always a "legislative freezer" (something PiS was frequently accusing PO of doing).

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Btw, how did it go in Łódź, kaatak?

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There were march in last weekend which I must say was extraordinarily big (media usually report that there were few thousands participants) as for the Łódź (well, it is enough to say that people there are not really keen in expressing their political views in form of manifestation or marches), it was co-organised by KOD so that also probably helped. As I noticed on photos most of the taking part were mainly women in age in range 35-60, which is somehow logical knowing the age structure and feminisation ratio. As for the yesterday I don't know if there was anything organised, probably main event was scheduled for last Sunday. Razem also took part.

Well, given that we kind of sucked in doing large manifestations after '89, I was surprised too.

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I know I'll probably be disappointed by the answer, but... any chance that SLD (or a competing left-wing party) will benefit from the protest's success and use it to (re)establish itself as a credible political force?

No. They are not even visibly active during the protests. Some minor leaders participated in organized events but this was way too little to make people actually think that SLD is political power which is worth the vote. The only potential beneficent is .Nowoczesna (ALDE) although there were not initiators of the protests.

Nowacka's been very active and visible during the whole thing. Then again, she's not SLD.

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Just when you think "it happens only in America".

Archbishop of Warszawa-Praga Henryk Hoser said there's no need for allowing abortion for rape, because it's very rare for a woman to get pregnant from rape, cuz some stuff.

Best part? Hoser is actually a MD. Of course after Jill Stein it doesn't matter much.

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What is more funny PO wanted to recall that commission meeting and its decisions as they say it was unconstitutional (term was not legally ok) so they if they want or not defended the Ordo Iuris project. Circus, everybody trolled by Kaczyński, even his own MEPs because as far as I know they still defended the project in the PE which dozens minutes ago had debate about situation of women in Poland (also in context of abortion laws).

This reminds me of Orwell's 1984 with a speaker blasting Eurasia before he received memo it's Eastasia that's bad now and corrects himself.

I'm a bit surprised, though. I expected it being kep in the freezer until things calm down. But Kaczyński is everything but idiot.

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Btw, little off-topic, but here's the recent poll (MB):

PiS: 30% (-3)
.Nowoczesna: 22% (+4)
PO: 16% (-3)
Kukiz: 8% (+1)
SLD: 5%
Korwin: 5% (+2)
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Razem: 4
PSL: 2

Lol PSL. Please die already.
`

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Also, how is Nowoczesna different than PO exactly? Sorry for all the dumb noob questions, but I haven't been able to follow Polish politics much lately.

Practical difference on European level: PO belongs to the EPP while Nowoczesna to ALDE.

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2. PO is maybe not considered in Poland as conservative party but still they are more conservative socially than .N.

Now that you've mentioned it, I can't name more. It's good pal Richard Swetru all over.

Just to explain: Petru (his name) -> Swetru from Sweter (sweater)

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Other thing that Ryszard Petru beside being economist he is known of saying a lot of stupid things, I don't know if he just say things too fast, before thinking about them or he is just stupid but well, he is not the best person in terms of communication with media.

One recent example, after one of Nowoczesna's politicians came out as gay. Soon after Petru, in an interview, said something like "well, I'm not against gays but they should't show it openly" (I don't remember an exact quote).

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Razem is now attempting to take full credit, lol.

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State TV made a stunning discovery: various anti-government protests being attended by the same mysterious individual...



Oh wait, that's Marek Kossakowski. Green co-chair and Solidarity veteran. Yet this mysterious connection somehow became a major news.


(I s**t you not).

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I think I'll just leave it here with no comment: http://www.thenews.pl/1/9/Artykul/275168,PiS-chief-Women-should-give-birth-even-to-deformed-babies-so-they-can-be-baptised

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This thread might just as well serve as general discussion one.


TNS Polska poll:

PiS: 34%
PO: 15%
Nowoczesna: 11%
Kukiz: 9%
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PSL: 3%
SLD: 3%
Korwin: 3%
Razem: 3%
TR: 0%

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There was a time when media gone all "OMG PO's dead an Petru's new King" due to some polls showing Nowoczesna ahead and the fact their activity in Sejm was much more effective than PO, which was torn apart by succession race. BUT PO has a great structural advantage and Nowoczesna just recently lost it's donations via Court decision (Razem has some problems with this, but everybody cares about Petru).

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Nowaczesna may have filled with Palikot's niche, but they'll never replace Palikot in my heart.

Palikot was quite a troll. I wish he were a better politician, though (voted TR in 2011).

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Presidential approvals per TNS:

Approve: 48% (-3)
Disapprove: 41% (+2)
Undecided: 11% (+1)

More specifically:

Very good: 9%
Good: 39%
Bad: 28%
Very bad: 13%


Freaking impressive, given the Presidency is basically vacant. Duda makes Komorowski look like a true titan of activity.

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Fake, but quite a good summary of Polish political situation anyway.

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Razem-*: 1% ↓
PiS government still relatively popular?

BUT MY FACEBOOK TOLD ME RAZEM WILL WIN THE NEXT ELECTION! D:

As long as there will be no mixed electoral system or even FPTP PiS will not be able to get constitutional majority.

Yes, though it's still curious they got, as the first party ever, a majority of seats with mere 37.58%, while parties that surprassed 40% (SLD in 2001, PO in 2007) couldn't. Had Zlew reached it's 8% thershold, it could've been diffrent.