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  WV - Trump up 32% (60%-28%) in Garin-Hart-Yang Research Group Poll (500 LV)
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Author Topic: WV - Trump up 32% (60%-28%) in Garin-Hart-Yang Research Group Poll (500 LV)  (Read 2426 times)
ApatheticAustrian
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« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2016, 09:30:05 am »

and in fact the dems are running this cycle with a literal coal mine-owner for gov.
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jimmie
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« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2016, 09:32:09 am »

If I was DNC chair, I would make getting back WV a top priority. Make it very clear that anti-coal democrats are in the wrong, in fact, kick them out of the party if they won't change their views. Make being pro-coal one of the first things the democratic platform lists, and stress its importance. Apologize over and over again in TV ads for your pure stupidity, recklessness, and destruction of jobs in being anti-coal. Say that you are thankful for the punishment the state gave the democratic party, and have learned from it.

1) West Virginia only has 5 electoral votes, and could lose one in the next census.
2) Unlike Democratic hope states, West Virginia has elected Democrats statewide even to this day, and will likely continue to do so this year. Georgia has not since 2006, South Carolina barely elected a Democrat to an obscure statewide office in 2006, Texas last did so in 1994. States that Democrats can win Presidentially, some of them have poor records for statewide Democrats, such as Ohio and Florida. So West Virginia is not exactly a lost cause for Democrats in the sense of adding Senate, Governor and potentially house seat numbers after Obama leaves office. 
3) Many of them just swung so hard Republican Presidentially due to the state being overwhelmingly religious, socially conservative and white. Many are single issue coal voters even.
4) The coal obsession there needs to stop. It has been in decline and will be in decline, especially as alternative sources become more viable.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2016, 10:31:19 am »

The easy coal seams have been mined.  The big coal mining is now in the western USA.

When the coal barons dominated West Virginia before 1932, the state was firmly Republican. Barons of an industry can dominate politics if they have a dying industry upon which the state politics depends, and campaign contributions matter more than do workers' votes.
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ApatheticAustrian
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« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2016, 10:34:18 am »

bigger appalachia is the kind of region crawling into the womb of the "right" on a global level right now.

usually places which have long tradition of union-leftwing-voting and have been unable to adjust.

as long as coal is seen as the only solution, the problem won't be solved.
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Figueira
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« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2016, 10:46:06 am »

Yeah, let's screw over humanity just to gain a few votes in West Virginia! Roll Eyes

I'm all in favor of winning back West Virginia, but we have to do it in a way that doesn't destroy any hope for the planet. Thank God Wulfric isn't the DNC chair.
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DINGO Joe
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« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2016, 10:55:04 am »

Can't wait until this trash state is down to three electoral votes.

Stay kind, Lief.

Would love to hear your moderate hero plan to make WV viable again
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2016, 01:46:57 pm »

Can't wait until this trash state is down to three electoral votes.

Stay kind, Lief.

Would love to hear your moderate hero plan to make WV viable again

Don't have one, I'm just not a prick about it like you two.
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NOVA Green
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« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2016, 03:09:16 pm »

A smarter idea would be to keep telling them that coal's dead and help massively subsidize vocational/trade schools for those that want it to get them set up in other jobs and actually be able to do something else.

Agreed with the last part...

We went through this in Oregon back in the 1980s and 1990s, when entire communities of rural and small town Oregon were hit massively by the inevitable decline in the timber industry driven by decades of over-harvesting of timber on public lands.

As part of the compromise worked out under the Bill Clinton administration, there was significant Federal monies invested in job retraining, support to school districts that were heavily dependent on timber dollars, promotion of "eco-tourism", and other means of mitigating the social impact caused by the dramatic permanent collapse of one of the key pillars of the state's economy.

I see no reason why a similar approach in coal dependent communities would not only be the ethical and right thing to do, since coal is essentially dying as a long term industry mainly as a result of free-market economic forces, and to a lesser extent the growth of renewable energy sources and also be something that in theory Republicans should support but won't, because they are in the pockets of Big Coal and the Koch brothers.

Granted Clinton did talk about this during the WV primaries to some extent, but it was overshadowed by what appeared to many in WV (And Appalachia in general) as extremely insensitive comments.
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EpicHistory
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« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2016, 04:29:41 pm »

Can't wait until this trash state is down to three electoral votes.

Seriously dude?
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EpicHistory
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« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2016, 04:37:22 pm »
« Edited: October 07, 2016, 04:42:40 pm by EpicHistory »

A smarter idea would be to keep telling them that coal's dead and help massively subsidize vocational/trade schools for those that want it to get them set up in other jobs and actually be able to do something else.

Except they've tried to do just that, and it's utterly failed. My Dad used to work for Joy Global, got laid off in February. Best job he could find to replace forced him to take an almost $10 paycut, even with the fact he has an associates. Same with my brother in law, who went from a well paying job checking local waters for mine run off to being forced to work for a cable company (He's got a bachelors). So please, do enlighten me as to how this is supposed to work, because just saying so doesn't form a coherent strategy. For the record millions has been put for former coal workers to get more education, the simple fact of the matter is that there aren't any quality jobs to replace coal and most lack the money to move elsewhere.

And for the record Red Avatars, do continue calling people like my father who's worked for 30 years in the coal industry and served 12 years in the Military "Hillbilly Trash". It's that elitism which has insured you won't win Appalachia anytime soon.
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rafta_rafta
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« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2016, 04:58:04 pm »

Coal is on its way out. Sure, it will stay here for decades but ultimately the opportunities will decrease as other energy sources take its place.

The government needs to retrain people and assist them to find jobs in other industries but wishful thinking isn't going to make coal any less polluting or an infinite resource
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EpicHistory
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« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2016, 05:11:10 pm »

Coal is on its way out. Sure, it will stay here for decades but ultimately the opportunities will decrease as other energy sources take its place.

Not necessarily. Green energy is still a long ways off from being cost effective as is fusion, and I don't think I need to talk about peak oil and the challenges currently presented towards fraking.

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Again, they've tried that and failed. As well, what other industries do you have in mind for Appalachia? Speaking as a person who lives here, outside of some industrial activities in a few cities already distressed, there aren't any other options for us. As for coal itself, here in the US alone we've got enough to maintain current demands for centuries. As far as pollutants, with the proper tech, you only have to worry about CO2.
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NOVA Green
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« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2016, 05:22:49 pm »

A smarter idea would be to keep telling them that coal's dead and help massively subsidize vocational/trade schools for those that want it to get them set up in other jobs and actually be able to do something else.

Except they've tried to do just that, and it's utterly failed. My Dad used to work for Joy Global, got laid off in February. Best job he could find to replace forced him to take an almost $10 paycut, even with the fact he has an associates. Same with my brother in law, who went from a well paying job checking local waters for mine run off to being forced to work for a cable company (He's got a bachelors). So please, do enlighten me as to how this is supposed to work, because just saying so doesn't form a coherent strategy. For the record millions has been put for former coal workers to get more education, the simple fact of the matter is that there aren't any quality jobs to replace coal and most lack the money to move elsewhere.

And for the record Red Avatars, do continue calling people like my father who's worked for 30 years in the coal industry and served 12 years in the Military "Hillbilly Trash". It's that elitism which has insured you won't win Appalachia anytime soon.

Epic--- for the record don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, because I never have, nor ever will  disrespect the proud history of Coal Miners in America. I've stood up against some of the suburban kids on the forum that have a kneejerk response to anything involving WV or Coal Country in general. There are some jerks on this forum that continue to ply on Appalachian stereotypes that have no experience or reality, but simply have whatever axes to grind with nothing to back it up.

Growing up in a timber dependent state, I know first-hand how entire communities can be destroyed almost overnight as a result of a dramatic collapse of good paying union jobs in the forests and the timber mills.

When I was in college in Ohio back in the early '90s I brought the UMWA to my college campus to speak shortly after the Pittston Coal Strike, when there were subsequent industrial actions against "double breasting" and union busting tactics. I still have a camouflage T-Shirt with a proud UMWA '93 on the front that the union rep gave me, that I wear proudly. Smiley

Agreed that there needs to be a more comprehensive approach to Coal Country, which has been neglected by both major political parties .

As the son of a Coal Miner, I'm sure you're already well aware of the struggles in the 1990s, but posting this basic article at least for some of the others on the forum that don't have the attention for more detailed analysis, to at least provide a slight starting point on this issue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittston_Coal_strike
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NOVA Green
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« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2016, 05:41:55 pm »

And for those "Democrats" on the forum that don't have a clue and still continue to treat Coal Miners and Appalachian-Americans as a bunch of "racist hillbillies", there has been almost 150 years of the Operators bringing successive waves of European immigrants to work in the mines, speaking many different native languages, the use of scabs trying to pit "White" miners against "Black" miners all in an attempt to bust the union.

They lost in that attempt.... but unfortunately Post WW II a Democratic President led a direct assault on the Miners and "Taft-Hartley" (Truman) followed up by assaults under successive Democratic and Republican administrations alike that were beholden to the power of Big Coal.

Video of the Pittston strike from the voices of the Miners....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EQm2MZ8I-Q

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DINGO Joe
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« Reply #39 on: October 09, 2016, 10:41:50 pm »

Can't wait until this trash state is down to three electoral votes.

Stay kind, Lief.

Would love to hear your moderate hero plan to make WV viable again

Don't have one, I'm just not a prick about it like you two.

RIP WV
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Landslide Andy
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« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2016, 10:46:19 pm »

The only suspense here is if Trump cracks 90% among the Racist WV Hick demographic.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #41 on: October 09, 2016, 11:12:35 pm »


You seem to be happy about it, hence you being a grade-A asshole.
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Landslide Andy
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« Reply #42 on: October 09, 2016, 11:16:16 pm »


You seem to be happy about it, hence you being a grade-A asshole.

Is WV the only state you defend so vehemently? lol

I hear NJ, FL, and OK could use some backup. Wink
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DINGO Joe
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« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2016, 11:36:49 pm »
« Edited: October 09, 2016, 11:40:31 pm by The Unbearable Invicibility of Hillary Clinton »


You seem to be happy about it, hence you being a grade-A asshole.

They certainly deserve better than having a bunch of frauds claiming they'll "make coal great again".  Though they have some culpability for falling for it.

I do vacillate between the best option for WV, consolidation with sharp defunding of state roads and  4 year universities, or just letting it collapse and drive people out of state.
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Eastern Kentucky Demosaur fighting the long defeat
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« Reply #44 on: October 09, 2016, 11:49:20 pm »

consolidation with sharp defunding of state roads and  4 year universities,

...what?
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DINGO Joe
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« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2016, 12:01:32 am »


The State of WV is responsible for the Sixth largest road system among all the states.  There are state road and then there are county roads.  WV doesn't have the population, size, traffic, income to support all those roads.  Obviously, WV can't afford all those roads.  Many should be converted to county roads and the counties that can't maintain them...oh well. 

WV has twelve 4yr public universities, several of them very close to each other and rather small.  They can't afford this.  Maybe 8-10 tops

WV is basically Detroit spread over a much more difficult terrain.
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Landslide Andy
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« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2016, 12:52:08 am »

Could Trump crack 70% in WV if there really is a tape of him saying the N word?
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Eastern Kentucky Demosaur fighting the long defeat
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« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2016, 02:32:26 am »


The State of WV is responsible for the Sixth largest road system among all the states.  There are state road and then there are county roads.  WV doesn't have the population, size, traffic, income to support all those roads.  Obviously, WV can't afford all those roads.  Many should be converted to county roads and the counties that can't maintain them...oh well. 

WV has twelve 4yr public universities, several of them very close to each other and rather small.  They can't afford this.  Maybe 8-10 tops

WV is basically Detroit spread over a much more difficult terrain.

Ah, okay. I wasn't aware there was so much redundancy.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2016, 11:51:26 am »


You seem to be happy about it, hence you being a grade-A asshole.

Is WV the only state you defend so vehemently? lol

I hear NJ, FL, and OK could use some backup. Wink

If those states were hurting as badly as WV and some sick assholes on the internet were seeming to find amusement in the situation, I'd call them out for being jerks, too.
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