Will the WWC become a long time voter base for the Republican Party?
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 23, 2024, 12:31:14 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
  Presidential Election Trends (Moderator: 100% pro-life no matter what)
  Will the WWC become a long time voter base for the Republican Party?
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3]
Poll
Question: Will the WWC become a long time voter base for the Republican Party?
#1
Yes
 
#2
No
 
Show Pie Chart
Partisan results

Total Voters: 99

Author Topic: Will the WWC become a long time voter base for the Republican Party?  (Read 7702 times)
White Trash
Southern Gothic
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,910


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2017, 07:53:16 PM »

Bernie Sanders' message implies that Democrats can regain a lot of WWC voters. A lot of upscale white voters they have are Democrats because the party is a neoliberal and socially liberal version of a moderate Republican Party.

The day the WWC unites with downscale minority voters is the day the Democrats become the majority party. And probably within the next decade or 12 years we will see that happening.
A coalition between working class whites, Blacks, and urban voters would be unstoppable. And yet the party still thinks the future is in the suburbs?
Logged
RINO Tom
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,026
United States


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #51 on: February 23, 2017, 11:14:39 AM »

Bernie Sanders' message implies that Democrats can regain a lot of WWC voters. A lot of upscale white voters they have are Democrats because the party is a neoliberal and socially liberal version of a moderate Republican Party.

The day the WWC unites with downscale minority voters is the day the Democrats become the majority party. And probably within the next decade or 12 years we will see that happening.
A coalition between working class whites, Blacks, and urban voters would be unstoppable. And yet the party still thinks the future is in the suburbs?

Atlas is going to draw a "snootier" Democrat (and Republican) than exists in the general population.  Party leaders know that.  Honestly, I think there is at least as much of a push in the current Democratic Party to go in the opposite direction, and that should say a lot considering how easy it would be to scrape by defeating Trump in 2020 with a Hillary Clinton coalition plus barely enough disaffected Trump voters.
Logged
The_Doctor
SilentCal1924
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,272


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #52 on: February 23, 2017, 11:30:58 AM »
« Edited: February 23, 2017, 11:34:28 AM by TD »

Bernie Sanders' message implies that Democrats can regain a lot of WWC voters. A lot of upscale white voters they have are Democrats because the party is a neoliberal and socially liberal version of a moderate Republican Party.

The day the WWC unites with downscale minority voters is the day the Democrats become the majority party. And probably within the next decade or 12 years we will see that happening.
A coalition between working class whites, Blacks, and urban voters would be unstoppable. And yet the party still thinks the future is in the suburbs?

I don't have another logical direction and believe me I originally believed that there would be a upper class college white - minority Democratic majority coalition. But it doesn't make sense because these groups' economic interests are mis-aligned. Upper class whites don't like tax hikes to pay for a lot of things as much as the working class whites. They are also vastly more conservative.

The coalition you point to would be similar to the great Democratic majority of 1932-1980. And working class whites have a lot to like in a populist Bernie-led Democratic Party that focuses on the worst effects of neoliberalism and tries to create an "equitable capitalism." Which is a very powerful message to all of the people listed in the aforementioned coalition. Their binding tie would be correction of neoliberalism's excesses and to make growth a thing for the lower and working classes.

For the record, the aforementioned coalition makes the Democratic Party an easy majority in the House and somewhat, the Senate.

Ultimately, I think upper class whites are destined to be a swing group, leaning Republican, while the working class goes home to the Democrats.

Let's take Pennsylvania under this coalition for example. I think Philadelphia and Pittsburgh go Democratic, but so does Erie County, Lackawanna, Allentown, and combined, they're enough to equal about 55% of Pennsylvania? (I'll do the math on that, shortly). Republicans would need some of the rural areas + the suburbs of Philadelphia to prevail in the state. But the GOP would be weakened if some of their small counties didn't return Republican thus increasing their reliance on the suburbs.

You get the idea, this is in a scenario where the GOP is the national minority coalition.
Logged
The_Doctor
SilentCal1924
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,272


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #53 on: February 23, 2017, 11:41:24 AM »

The Democratic Party heading this direction also makes a lot of sense, given the GOP is already heading in this direction too. I imagine both parties will start catering to white working class voters, after a generation of leaving them out in the cold in favor of catering to the wine track set in both parties (e.g, suburban white collar voters; "soccer moms," "hockey dads," or whatever inane nonsense they've appellated to these groups).

Logged
NOVA Green
Oregon Progressive
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,446
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #54 on: February 23, 2017, 11:28:35 PM »

The WWC at a national level has long been a large voter base for the Republican Party at the Presidential Level, certainly from 1980 onwards, and arguably in '68 and definitively in '72....

What is often lost in these discussions is the regional shifts in support levels for Democratic and Republican Presidential candidates among WWC voters has shifted with time.

Depending upon definitions of the WWC there will be some variances when we look at both national and regional level of support for Presidential Candidates by Party in the General Election.

The three typical methods involve one, two, or all of the following:

1.) Educational Attainment
2.) Occupational Data
3.) Income Data

(This is why when I pull City/Precinct breakdowns, etc  I try to pull all three data sets to include in my posts, which can help provide context especially in heavily WWC states such as Oregon)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/22/who-exactly-is-the-white-working-class-and-what-do-they-believe-good-questions/?utm_term=.906e8beb287e

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/04_demographics_teixeira.pdf

Nationally the results look something like this among WWC voters over time:

1960/1964: 55% Democratic
1968/1972: 35 % Democratic (Much of this a result of the loss of support among Southern Whites)
1980/1984: 35% Democratic / 61% Republican
1992/1996: +1% Clinton Plurality among WWC voters
2000: +17% Republican wing among WWC voters
2004: +23% Republican wing among WWC voters

So to go back to the National/Regional point towards the beginning of my post, the loss of Southern WWC support goes way back, but despite that various Democrats Carter in '76/'80 and Clinton in '92/'96 (In a 3-Person race) where able to hold their own relatively speaking....

If we shift to New England, we haven't seen anything resembling that trend over the past few decades, with the exception of the Northern Congressional district of Maine in '16.

Upstate New York... similar gig historically speaking....

We take a peak at WWC voters in the West Coast, we can definitely see some major trending in traditional timber country and mill towns of Oregon, compared to '88, as well as places in Eastern and SW Washington State.... WWC voters in the cities of the Pacific Northwest have been swinging equally hard towards the Democratic party during that same time....

Flip to the Great plains (The Dakotas, NE, KS, Eastern Montana, etc....)   there has been a big shift towards the Pubs in rural and small town parts of these states for quite some time now... "What's the Matter with Kansas" fame areas....

If we look at the "Rust Belt", which is not necessarily my favorite term to describe a dynamic and extremely varied region of the country, this definitely does fit the definition of the classic WWC "Swing Voters" that determines elections....

It's pretty clear that the dramatic decline of Clinton support in the rural areas and small towns of Wisconsin, where dairy and paper mills are a key part of much of the local economy in a majority of these counties was the major reason loss of WI, despite improving on the margins in WOW and with slightly depressed and increased 3rd Party support in heavily Democratic Milwaukie County.

However, these same areas have been flipping back and forth since 1988....

Michigan.... Obviously the reason that the state flipped in 2016 was Macomb County and rural/small town margins "upstate"....

Ohio
---- This case is much more obvious---- Gore lost it by 3.5% in 2000, including getting creamed in SE Ohio, which is not a necessary precondition for a Dem "W" in OH, but certainly plays on the margins in a close election.... Kerry was able to make it a bit closer, partially as a result of increasing Dem % in SE OH, holding the 2000 margins in WWC MFG NE areas of the State, and increasing Dem % numbers in '08....

This is an extremely complex state to understand in terms of political-demographics, considering it is essentially a tale of 5-6 separate states, where two of the largest internal domestic migrations of the past 50-60 years (Migration of African-Americans from the Deep South leaving behind the legacy of Jim Crow and White Supremacy and migration of Appalachian-Americans fleeing rural poverty and automation of the Coal Industry, with both populations seeking decent paying union jobs in the manufacturing sector) have created it as ground zero in changing social demographics from 1950-1980.

OH has always been one of the tougher state for Dems to crack among WWC voters, and the concept that Obama's personal support and favorable image was transferable to HRC was always a sketchy proposition at best....

Still, even if you look through County level '08 results in some of the most traditionally Republican parts of the state, that are more rural and agricultural, but still dotted with manufacturing towns and commercial centers, even in traditionally heavily Republican areas in NW and Central Ohio, Obama actually performed exceptionally well...

Shoot, even if you roll into 2012, Obama's numbers held up extremely well in these same overwhelmingly WWC parts of the state.

Pull up the 2016 county map and start scrolling through these same counties in Western and NW Ohio....

Just take a look at places like Allen County, Licking County, etc....

The collapse of Democratic support in the traditional heartland of the Labor Movement in NE-Ohio is obviously extremely concerning, along with the cratering of Democratic support among the traditionally swing 3 CD's of Appalachian-American Ohio that border the Ohio River Valley, which for anyone who has never been there is actually a heavily industrialized working River, where Democrats, even in very recent years have been able to play extremely well in an overwhelmingly WWC part of the state....

Now---- to once again resurrect a pet peeve of mine among multiple Atlas Forum members with both Democratic/Republican/Pink/Libertarian/Tie-dyed avatars alike, is the picking on Appalachia and Appalachian-Americans, which is basically an extension of some internal "Redneck Joke" that they think the rest of the world will find absolutely hilarious and entertaining....

Given me a Jeff Foxworthy cassette tap (Oops- showing my age, and already have one in storage), or Youtube a Larry the Cable guy funniest self-deprecating Redneck jokes ever, fine....

Now, getting back to real business---- most people that have never ever set foot in Ohio actually don't realize the extent to which discrimination against Appalachian-Americans in Ohio has shaped the mindset of an entire population where discrimination in housing and employment were rife well into the 1970s, and even beyond.

Clinton's widely publicized gaffes on Coal Country, resonated among those of Appalachian-American background not only in SE-OH, but also in the factory downs of Dayton, Springfield, and even Toledo, as well as many other areas in SW and Western Ohio.

25% of the residents of Cincinnati are still Appalachian-Americans.... In 1993, when I was living a few miles down the road in college, the City became the first in the Nation to adopt an Anti-Discrimination clause to protect this population from rampant discrimination.

http://www.tolerance.org/magazine/number-9-spring-1996/feature/mountain-legacy

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-03-29/news/mn-39810_1_urban-appalachian-council/2

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/09/the-original-underclass/492731/

So: The WWC has been a long time voter base for the Republican Party, and unless something changes dramatically soon in the near-future it will continue to be such.

Will the WWC voters of the MidWest and Rust Belt become a long time voter base of the Republican Party? We have yet to see any such evidence, other than Trump's surprise wins in Wisconsin and Michigan, and a larger than expected win in Iowa and Ohio....

The bigger question was Obama's performance in Ohio an exception, or was Trump's performance in Ohio an exception? Or is it more that there is a large bucket of voters up for grabs that will shift the opposite direction every eight years at the Presidential level?
Logged
This Has Only Just Begun
Crimson King
Rookie
**
Posts: 32
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #55 on: February 26, 2017, 04:49:48 AM »

I still don't understand why college educated whites, a group that still voted more for Trump than Clinton, are now considered the main part of the dem base. They haven't voted democrat since 1964.

I just think that the more educated you are the less likely xenophobia, sexist, religious intolerant plans, etc are going to be appealing to you.

You are also more likely to like tax cuts, not see the value of poverty reduction programs, and back costly regime change wars that have little to no benefit to society except make oil companies richer.  Because more often than not education is more of a sign of wealth than it is, y'know, being a decent human being.

So yeah, there's that.
Logged
This Has Only Just Begun
Crimson King
Rookie
**
Posts: 32
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #56 on: February 26, 2017, 04:55:59 AM »
« Edited: February 26, 2017, 04:57:37 AM by Crimson King »

No pun intended, but it is nothing short of rich that the Democrats (or at least some of the more delusional and elitist party followers like you) are now targeting the most fortunate and affluent White voters, haha.  And I'm sure even if they succeed in this, they'll still try to claim moral superiority.  But please, continue to try this!  It'll fail massively and be hilarious.

Wouldn't the natural trend of college-educated whites be towards Democrats as much more Democratic white Millennials and young GenX'ers, on set to be the most educated generations in history, make up more of the electorate? If that is the primary marker for fortune & affluence, it really shouldn't be that rich.

On the other hand the movement of more wealthy people to the Democratic Party (at least based on the last 2 presidential elections) is disconcerting to me and I guess you could call that rich, though I'm not sure what my party has been doing to specifically court those voters. Seems more like Republicans have been pushing them away.

Fair enough.  I guess it is important to make the distinction that we should be targeting younger people with degrees and other demographics more friendly to a social democratic messaging.  I'm just really concerned about Democratic leaders being stupid enough to think that lifelong Republican millionaires in Dallas and Atlanta who gave money to politicians who voted for the Iraq War is a good thing.  The Democratic Party at it's roots is about opposing the paternalistic privilege of the protestant upper class, not reveling in it's elitist values.
Logged
Technocracy Timmy
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,641
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #57 on: November 08, 2018, 04:31:21 PM »

After seeing how they voted in a D+7 midterm with a 42% approval President Trump, absolutely.
Logged
Wazza [INACTIVE]
Wazza1901
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,927
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #58 on: January 14, 2019, 07:23:25 AM »

yes.  I am assuming you mean white voters with minimal education.  the new political landscape:

educated whites + minorities vs. uneducated whites.  

There are more of the former but the latter is more geographically dispersed so they have the current advantage.

LOL, it's cute how delusional you guys are, as educated Whites vote Republican, too.

This. Educated whites still favoured Trump 49-44 in 2016. This idea some people have of "Minorities and the enlightened educated whites allies against the redneck caveman hordes" is indeed delusional.
Logged
RINO Tom
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,026
United States


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #59 on: January 14, 2019, 12:48:23 PM »

Revisiting this question, what qualifies being a "voter base" for a party?  If the question is whether or not Whites without a college degree (foolishly referred to as "White working class" voters, but I digress) will become as loyal to the GOP or cemented enough into the nomination process as a monolithic ideological group as White evangelicals, the answer for me is a resounding no.  An example on the Democratic side would be Black voters.  Both of these groups are so loyal to their respective parties that the party needs to actively craft their policies to appease them, and the groups tend to often (but obviously not always) vote strategically for one candidate in primaries to achieve their goals.  The "White working class" will probably never get to that level for the GOP; it's too big and too diverse of a group, and even if our caricatures of "White working class voters" continue to remain loyal Republicans, that classification will continue to include many urban and Millennial "WWC" voters who will keep the group from ever becoming THAT Republican.
Logged
OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 44,736


Political Matrix
E: 3.42, S: 2.61

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #60 on: January 14, 2019, 01:07:52 PM »

What do you define as WWC because I believe Romney did better among them then Trump did it is just that Trump did way better among Midwestern Blue Collar WWC while Romney did better among Southern and Suburban WWC
Logged
CEO Mindset
penttilinkolafan
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 925
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #61 on: February 01, 2019, 08:04:15 PM »

Not before 2030-40. GOP won't drop gay marriage or abortion until boomers are all roasting, if they even do.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.052 seconds with 13 queries.