MT-AL: Rob Quist (D) vs. Greg Gianforte (R) vs. Mark Wicks (L), May 25

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I hope Curtis wins the primary, she seems like the most formidable Democrat in the field.

Republicans hope she wins too. Just sayin'

Just like Democrats wanted Trump to win last year or Reagan in 1980.

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I didnt realize Quist was a Berniecrat:

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Well, he beat another Berniecrat, Curtis. So many races without a Berniecrat, and here we had one beat another.

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Our Revolution endorses Rob Quist (& James Thompson) for Congress. Loads of money coming from Bernie's email list.

MT-AL is a winnable seat with a good candidate who can hold a possibly red seat for many number of years. Dems should go all out for this & GA. I remember when Dems kept delaying & cancelling ad buys for Feingold when they though he was too strong/wouldn't need (& spend Millions in Florida wasted on a poor Murphy in an expensive market where Rubio was leading consistently & comfortably). This was while Hillary didn't do a single rally for Russ & Russ was getting slaughtered in TV ads from the Koch Brothers, NRA & other groups.

This is the saddest, most frustrating, most infuriating thing on this forum. I miss Russ Feingold so much

Russ was the man. It's so sad he failed. The man behind one of the better campaign finance reform acts defeated by Ron ing Johnson.

If the DSCC put some money into his race instead of Florida or NC then he'd probably have won, and we'd be in that much better a position. I'm worried we might not have a Senator as great as him for a while, and because of the DSCC's stupidity his name is now too toxic for a Gubernatorial run

You're mad about the money they wasted in FL and NC? What about all the money Schumer pissed away on his own Safe D race in New York?

Anyway, on topic, Republicans could probably dig up some serious dirt on Amanda Curtis. Dems would be smart to look elsewhere. She has some past ties to a communist revolutionary group that weren't really discussed during her 2014 Senate run due to her massive polling deficit against Steve Daines.

There's also the over a  million dollars the DSCC spent in the Pennsylvania primary against the only 3 star vet ever in congress and then lost the general election with their candidate.

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The lack of help from the DSCC seems to confirm their shift from WWC to upscale suburban districts.

Or just that they hate progressives.

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Or just that they hate progressives.

Typical jfern

Well, there's plenty of evidence that the establishment hates progressives. David Brock's Shareblue is still bashing Bernie on a regular basis, and Hillary hacks like Whitehouse are spouting their batsh**t crazy conspiracy theories.

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Well, there's plenty of evidence that the establishment hates progressives. David Brock's Shareblue is still bashing Bernie on a regular basis, and Hillary hacks like Whitehouse are spouting their batsh**t crazy conspiracy theories.

My comment really had nothing to do with the validity of your statement. It was just that you brought it up in the first place. It's the same reason you had that "but Hillary" label in 2016. Your commentary is often blatantly fixated on a single subject, and you are largely oblivious to that (or don't care either way). If I had to guess, the overall focus of your political thoughts is around the impure nature of the politicians that represent the views closest to your own - aka Democrats. Not that you have any obligation to focus on anything in particular, but you're practically like the IID of a police department. Your entire focus is inwards.

The party had a choice last year between someone who appealed to progressives and would have beaten Trump or someone who seemed designed to piss people like me off and lost to Trump. Trump had a worse favorable rating than Goldwater. He was not a strong candidate. So how's the establishment respond? David Brock is still running his crazy anti Bernie propaganda. Prominent Democrats are spouting off insane Russian conspiracy theories, and Tom Perez was installed at the last minute as DNC chair. As low of an opinion that I had of the Democratic party, I thought they'd have gotten a bit more of a clue from losing to Donald J Trump than they did. One can oppose both Trump and the idiots who promoted Trump because they thought their terrible candidate could easily beat him.

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Or just that they hate progressives.

Typical jfern

Well, there's plenty of evidence that the establishment hates progressives. David Brock's Shareblue is still bashing Bernie on a regular basis, and Hillary hacks like Whitehouse are spouting their batsh**t crazy conspiracy theories.

I'm a pretty typical establishmentarian Democrat, but Quist is exactly the kind of progressive I can get behind, and Montana is exactly the kind of place I think the progressive movement can play a role in helping Democrats and the liberal movement more generally extend their appeal. As I've said before, it's not an issue of policy positions, but one of practicality. Quist is clearly the ideal candidate for Democrats to have running here, just as JBE is ideal for Louisiana and Gillibrand is great for New York. Now, whether I would support him for President in a Democratic primary is a different story, but that's not where we're at right now.

Are you implying that progressive can win in Montana but not New York?

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David Brock is still running his crazy anti Bernie propaganda.

Brock would still be doing what he does even if the Bernie wing completely took over the party. Your intra-party rivals don't just shut up when they lose stature.

He's more than just an intra-party rival. His SuperPAC directly coordinated with the Hillary campaign and he pushed that "Bernie Bro" myth hard.

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Uh huh, and from other people's perspectives, you're another person on the left who dislikes the Russian angle because they believe it is being used solely to justify Clinton's loss. Even worse, you're of the type who believes Democrats have complete control of that narrative now. The investigation and the stories that come from it have taken on a life of its own. At best you can argue that certain people indulge certain parts of it too much.
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There's no evidence that Russia was behind the Podesta e-mail leak, and those e-mails have been DKIM verified, and the contents not addressed. The Russia thing is all a pathetic distraction to start a new cold war to distract people from that.

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I dunno, I'm not sure it counts as "last minute." Also, it is naive and silly of you if you really think the dominant faction of the party is just going to roll over and give it up just because Hillary lost. If progressives want to take over the party, it's unrealistic to expect everything to fall into place in such a brief period of time.

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Ellison bent over backwards for the Hillary people and had more endorsements from Hillary supporting US Senators than Perez, but Obama and the Clintons wanted to retain the establishment power.

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While I'm not endorsing either side in this particular part of my response, I'd say you have no idea whether or not anyone has got a clue yet. We aren't even a year from the election, nor has Perez even been chair for more than a couple months and you are already talking about complete failures of this and that!

I have to admit, I really hope the party is up to your code by early 2018, or else at this rate you'll be foaming at the mouth and out for blood.
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My expectations for the Democratic party were damn low, but they included them stopping their insane Russian conspiracy theories by now. The party needs to STFU about the Russians, stop bashing people who didn't support their terrible candidate, and actually focus on issues that help people.

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Or just that they hate progressives.

Typical jfern

Well, there's plenty of evidence that the establishment hates progressives. David Brock's Shareblue is still bashing Bernie on a regular basis, and Hillary hacks like Whitehouse are spouting their batsh**t crazy conspiracy theories.

I'm a pretty typical establishmentarian Democrat, but Quist is exactly the kind of progressive I can get behind, and Montana is exactly the kind of place I think the progressive movement can play a role in helping Democrats and the liberal movement more generally extend their appeal. As I've said before, it's not an issue of policy positions, but one of practicality. Quist is clearly the ideal candidate for Democrats to have running here, just as JBE is ideal for Louisiana and Gillibrand is great for New York. Now, whether I would support him for President in a Democratic primary is a different story, but that's not where we're at right now.

Are you implying that progressive can win in Montana but not New York?

No, just that no one faction of the Democratic Party can claim to be the one true path to salvation for the national party as a whole. Had Clinton won the election and chosen Bullock to be in her administration, it would have been the wrong choice for Democrats to nominate Amanda Curtis to replace him, even despite the Clinton wing theoretically claiming to have "won" in this scenario. Likewise, had Bernie won and put some hypothetical New Jersey Democrat in his administration, it probably wouldn't have been the best pick to get Cornell West to run as the Democratic candidate to replace them, even if the Sanders wing had "won" the day in the election.

In short, the party should play to its regional strengths when we aren't running nation-wide elections, and not try to focus on purity tests for its candidates one way or another.

The establishment forces purity tests. Why do you think so many endorsed Hillary in the primary? There were Democrats who were thinking of endorsing Bernie, but were informed that would stop them from being renominated.



And even if you endorsed Hillary, you weren't safe, such as the 6 year old vendetta against Joe Sestak where the DSCC blew 7 digits defeating him in the primary last year.

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I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

That the Democrats aren't wasting money on a race where they're down 12 points?

It's Gravis.

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"We don't wanna give him money because it'll nationalize the race" is such a cop out.

Except they are giving him money?

Yes.  The DCCC gave an undisclosed six-figure amount to the Montana Democratic Party for the MT-AL race.  That the DCCC is not advertising directly probably makes tactical sense.  Let the state party do it.

That's only a small fraction of what the Montana Democratic party laundered for the Hillary Victory Fund. Sad!

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House Majority Pac (D) is making a last minute $25K TV ad buy for Montana. Probably just so they don't get accused of not doing more. The DCCC before this had only spent $28K, while outside Republicans have put in more than $4 million.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/18/montana-special-election-dem-super-pac-ads-238576

Just enough money to try to say that they did something with a straight face. Sad!

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Maybe Gravis found Quist in the lead and decided to just scrap the poll entirely?

Nah they found Wicks in the lead and realized they smoked one too many while taking the poll.

Lol. Over five and a half hours later, and three hours since any contact with Gravis.

4.5 hours if we're generous and assume they actually meant EST for some reason.

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Very weird to have a new firm emerge without even their own website, Is any more information available on them?

New pollsters without websites that show up 2 days before an election are always the most reliable, don't you know?

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Hopefully these are all morning papers.

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The reporter left the hospital with a sling.

4:36
http://www.krtv.com/clip/13359248/fox-news-film-crew-witnessed-altercation-between-gianforte-and-reporter-audio

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Beet, your posts are bad.

Some of it is deranged, but he's making pretty astute points about how left-wing populism is failing to deliver.

You know, this is a R+11 district, and the only district in the country more Republican than R+5 with a Democrat has one who endorsed Bernie in the primary?

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Beet, your posts are bad.

Some of it is deranged, but he's making pretty astute points about how left-wing populism is failing to deliver.

You know, this is a R+11 district, and the only district in the country more Republican than R+5 with a Democrat has one who endorsed Bernie in the primary?

But what happened to the "most popular politician in America" and his legendary appeal to WWC? I'll concede that Montana is not the best place to test that theory, but it looks like his popularity among that demographic doesn't translate into votes for candidates of his mold.

Bernie wasn't on the ballot. Quist had some tax issues, so wasn't an ideal candidate.

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It's becoming a vicious cycle at this point. National Democrats don't support progressive Democrat enough compared to Republican opponent, progressive Democrat loses in an underdog race against Republican opponent by single-digits, and moderate Democrats regardless toss it aside as a reason why populism can't work.

If anyone really thinks this race wasn't winnable and the DCCC was right all along, you're being naive. Sure, Quist was a flawed candidate. But that doesn't mean he couldn't have beaten Gianforte if he had received more support from the party, not just outside grassroots organizations.


If you care so much about data and which races are "winnable" or not, look at this graph and see that Democrats aren't supporting their candidates as much as Republicans.

I don't get the feeling that the Democratic party is too upset about having a progressive lose.

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It's becoming a vicious cycle at this point. National Democrats don't support progressive Democrat enough compared to Republican opponent, progressive Democrat loses in an underdog race against Republican opponent by single-digits, and moderate Democrats regardless toss it aside as a reason why populism can't work.

If anyone really thinks this race wasn't winnable and the DCCC was right all along, you're being naive. Sure, Quist was a flawed candidate. But that doesn't mean he couldn't have beaten Gianforte if he had received more support from the party, not just outside grassroots organizations.


If you care so much about data and which races are "winnable" or not, look at this graph and see that Democrats aren't supporting their candidates as much as Republicans.

Quist got more then enough funding.

Let me guess, if he had been a pathetic empty suit like Ossof, you would think he needs another $10 million?

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Unfortunately, as I feared, this election will merely tear Democrats apart rather than unite them toward a common goal. Establishmentarians will (rightly*) blame Quist's bernicratic stances, Berniecrats will blame the DCCC, Tom Perez, whoever. Yes, Bernie's movement will probably play quite well in the Rust Belt and in already-strong-left areas, but not everywhere. I think the Berniecratic sweet spot are Obama-Trump areas, not traditional Republican strongholds like Montana. The movement has such a great energy, and it would be unwise of the establishment Democrats to ignore or squash it. Support each other! I'm certain some moderate state Senator would have been able to keep the margin tight, or even if Quist didn't go full Bernie. Just look at Ossoff - he appealed to GA-06's Republicans beyond mere anti-trumpness.


*Rightly attribute some of the blame

Well, we could talk about DWS threatening a police chief instead. Would that cheer you up?

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A reminder that the DCCC spent a tenth on this race what they've spent in GA-6 so far.

Quist has also raised millions of dollars, getting a fundraising advantage over The Piano Man.

Quiet, it just easier to blame the DCCC then to admit that left-wing populism isn't some magic elixir that is going to win over rural voters.  

Is that the new meme, that Bernie can't win rural whites?

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A reminder that the DCCC spent a tenth on this race what they've spent in GA-6 so far.

Quist has also raised millions of dollars, getting a fundraising advantage over The Piano Man.

Quiet, it just easier to blame the DCCC then to admit that left-wing populism isn't some magic elixir that is going to win over rural voters.  

Is that the new meme, that Bernie can't win rural whites?

Well, he can win them in Vermont.  Not sure about anywhere else.

When he was running for Congress in 1988 or 1990, I bet people laughed at him for trying to win against a Democrat and a Republican in a state that had only ever voted once for President, when LBJ won every northern state.

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A reminder that the DCCC spent a tenth on this race what they've spent in GA-6 so far.

Quist has also raised millions of dollars, getting a fundraising advantage over The Piano Man.

Quiet, it just easier to blame the DCCC then to admit that left-wing populism isn't some magic elixir that is going to win over rural voters.  

Is that the new meme, that Bernie can't win rural whites?

All of Bernie-backed candidates (outside of the NH delegate) has lost and in some cases they underperformed Clinton.

The NY assembly elect was a Bernie delegate.

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Wasserman is saying quist is doing slightly better with election day voters than with early voters.

Opposite of what happened elsehwere/

It sounds like the Bernie rally and the bodyslamming happened too late to win this.