Muslims say; religious freedom for me, but not for thee.
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  Muslims say; religious freedom for me, but not for thee.
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Author Topic: Muslims say; religious freedom for me, but not for thee.  (Read 1058 times)
Greatest I am
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« on: February 27, 2017, 11:29:12 AM »
« edited: February 27, 2017, 11:34:04 AM by Greatest I am »

Muslims say; religious freedom for me, but not for thee.

The Golden Rule and other reciprocity sayings indicate that what we grant ourselves or some others should also be granted to everyone. This would include the right to critique religions and governments.

Islam and it’s Muslim adherents are quite vocal in denigrating other religions and political system, yet say that others who denigrate Islam and Sharia should be penalized in various ways, --- even unto death.

Where I come from, reciprocity is fair play and all players in a game play by the same rules. Islam and Muslims wants to win the God wars by having different restrictive rules for their interlocutors.

Should we respect and tolerate a religion that denies us the rights and play by the same rules that they enjoy?

If yes, please tell me why we should respect such a religion.

Regards
DL  
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ApatheticAustrian
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« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2017, 11:30:38 AM »

you don't need to respect any religion.

i would prefer it if saudi-arabia and iran wouldn't be our golden standard for comparisons.

my muslim friends, while surely being much more conservative than me, think differently.
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Hindsight was 2020
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« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2017, 11:31:09 AM »

Weak trolling 3/10
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2017, 12:04:22 PM »

Did you post this in the wrong board by mistake, or did you decide to keep your clutter out of the R&P board for a while?
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The_Doctor
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« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2017, 12:38:12 PM »
« Edited: February 27, 2017, 12:41:50 PM by TD »

Stop thinking about this in moral terms.

If we could ignore the Arabic world, I would be heartily in favor of Trumpism. Unfortunately, no, we cannot ignore them. So, we need to adopt a rational strategy to transform a toxic region that can't get its crap together and ends up exports violence and warfare and bloodshed.

There's no other solution. Closing our borders won't do it (a dirty bomb could attack Europe, thus depriving us of an ally or some such).

Western civilization has to deal with the Muslim Middle East. This was the entire point of the War in Iraq and the reason it really went belly up is that nobody contextualized Iraq and prepared the United States and Europe for a generation long war against radical Islam. That, and the Bush White House faintly didn't even recognize that it was utilizing the beginnings of a reasonable strategy but failed to prepare the country for the long term war footing and made up a stupid WMD rationale.

This is the biggest thing that annoys me about Trumpers/European nationalists. They look at the Middle East and flail screaming "WE CAN'T SOLVE THIS. RUN AWAY!" They're so traumatized by Iraq that their instinct is to flee the issue.

No you can't! It's crazy. It's not a rational strategy to run away from the Middle East, bomb it, or close our borders and not let refugees in. You're basically refusing to acknowledge the problem.

This, in fact, was the very same behavior displayed by the United States after World War I - the refusal to handle Europe's complex problems. What happened? We ended up wasting an extra 60+ million lives in World War II - 2.3% of the world's population - to handle the problem.

Most likely, our Western refusal to recognize that we live in a global society and we can't run away from them is going to end up costing hundreds of millions of lives, including American and European lives, in yet another global armed conflict. We're backing out of Syria, we're backing out of Ukraine, we can't enforce red lines, we had no follow up plan when Libya fell apart. Guess what? That's all going to come back to bite us in the arse. These people didn't go away, they didn't die off, they're still there.

And no, we can't rely on Russia's goodwill. Mostly because Russia (a) doesn't have the same interests as we do (b) Russia doesn't have the military assets to take out radical Islam (its GDP is $2.2 trillion, we're an $18 trillion country).
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2017, 03:13:28 PM »

you don't need to respect any religion.

i would prefer it if saudi-arabia and iran wouldn't be our golden standard for comparisons.

my muslim friends, while surely being much more conservative than me, think differently.

They are in the minority.

Ask them to chat more with their friends unless they fear being killed as apostates.

http://www.therebel.media/tiffany_gabbay_april_19

Regards
DL



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Greatest I am
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« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2017, 03:16:59 PM »

Stop thinking about this in moral terms.

If we could ignore the Arabic world, I would be heartily in favor of Trumpism. Unfortunately, no, we cannot ignore them. So, we need to adopt a rational strategy to transform a toxic region that can't get its crap together and ends up exports violence and warfare and bloodshed.

There's no other solution. Closing our borders won't do it (a dirty bomb could attack Europe, thus depriving us of an ally or some such).

Western civilization has to deal with the Muslim Middle East. This was the entire point of the War in Iraq and the reason it really went belly up is that nobody contextualized Iraq and prepared the United States and Europe for a generation long war against radical Islam. That, and the Bush White House faintly didn't even recognize that it was utilizing the beginnings of a reasonable strategy but failed to prepare the country for the long term war footing and made up a stupid WMD rationale.

This is the biggest thing that annoys me about Trumpers/European nationalists. They look at the Middle East and flail screaming "WE CAN'T SOLVE THIS. RUN AWAY!" They're so traumatized by Iraq that their instinct is to flee the issue.

No you can't! It's crazy. It's not a rational strategy to run away from the Middle East, bomb it, or close our borders and not let refugees in. You're basically refusing to acknowledge the problem.

This, in fact, was the very same behavior displayed by the United States after World War I - the refusal to handle Europe's complex problems. What happened? We ended up wasting an extra 60+ million lives in World War II - 2.3% of the world's population - to handle the problem.

Most likely, our Western refusal to recognize that we live in a global society and we can't run away from them is going to end up costing hundreds of millions of lives, including American and European lives, in yet another global armed conflict. We're backing out of Syria, we're backing out of Ukraine, we can't enforce red lines, we had no follow up plan when Libya fell apart. Guess what? That's all going to come back to bite us in the arse. These people didn't go away, they didn't die off, they're still there.

And no, we can't rely on Russia's goodwill. Mostly because Russia (a) doesn't have the same interests as we do (b) Russia doesn't have the military assets to take out radical Islam (its GDP is $2.2 trillion, we're an $18 trillion country).


True that the fight has to be against Islam's ideology but Islam will not engage. They are even ostracizing and killing Muslims that promote such a discourse.

Regards
DL
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ApatheticAustrian
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« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2017, 03:19:06 PM »

Ask them to chat more with their friends unless they fear being killed as apostates.

the turkish community in austria/germany has many problems but saudi-arabien mindsets aren't one. Smiley
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2017, 03:22:53 PM »

Ask them to chat more with their friends unless they fear being killed as apostates.

the turkish community in austria/germany has many problems but saudi-arabien mindsets aren't one. Smiley

Not to their extend but not much better.

Regards
DL
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The_Doctor
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« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2017, 03:30:12 PM »

True that the fight has to be against Islam's ideology but Islam will not engage. They are even ostracizing and killing Muslims that promote such a discourse.

Regards
DL

2.6 billion Muslims. They can't kill that many apostates. The message will continue apace if we give it room to grow.
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Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy
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« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2017, 03:30:57 PM »

you don't need to respect any religion.

i would prefer it if saudi-arabia and iran wouldn't be our golden standard for comparisons.

my muslim friends, while surely being much more conservative than me, think differently.

They are in the minority.

Ask them to chat more with their friends unless they fear being killed as apostates.

http://www.therebel.media/tiffany_gabbay_april_19

Regards
DL





You're quoting Rebel Media? Isn't that site the Canadian Breitbart?
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Mr. Reactionary
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« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2017, 03:34:32 PM »

In terms of theology I think Islam is bad, but if the government has the power to single out Islam, that means it also has the power to single out Christianity. Therefore Christians should oppose government discrimination against Islam without regard to whether it is hypocritical and wrong.
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2017, 03:40:49 PM »

True that the fight has to be against Islam's ideology but Islam will not engage. They are even ostracizing and killing Muslims that promote such a discourse.

Regards
DL

2.6 billion Muslims. They can't kill that many apostates. The message will continue apace if we give it room to grow.

True, but while we wait for it to grow, many die.

http://www.therebel.media/tiffany_gabbay_april_19

Regards
DL
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2017, 03:42:53 PM »

you don't need to respect any religion.

i would prefer it if saudi-arabia and iran wouldn't be our golden standard for comparisons.

my muslim friends, while surely being much more conservative than me, think differently.

They are in the minority.

Ask them to chat more with their friends unless they fear being killed as apostates.

http://www.therebel.media/tiffany_gabbay_april_19

Regards
DL





You're quoting Rebel Media? Isn't that site the Canadian Breitbart?

If you do not have conflicting numbers, then you attack the messenger instead of the message.

I see that as a cop out.

Regards
DL
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2017, 03:47:02 PM »

In terms of theology I think Islam is bad, but if the government has the power to single out Islam, that means it also has the power to single out Christianity. Therefore Christians should oppose government discrimination against Islam without regard to whether it is hypocritical and wrong.

True and that is why I promote putting all religions, especially Christianity and Islam, both intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions under the same discrimination.

They are both cut from the same cloth as they have both grown their religions by the sword instead of good deeds.

Jihads and Inquisitions are synonymous and both hateful.

Regards
DL
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The_Doctor
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« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2017, 03:50:53 PM »

True that the fight has to be against Islam's ideology but Islam will not engage. They are even ostracizing and killing Muslims that promote such a discourse.

Regards
DL

2.6 billion Muslims. They can't kill that many apostates. The message will continue apace if we give it room to grow.

True, but while we wait for it to grow, many die.

http://www.therebel.media/tiffany_gabbay_april_19

Regards
DL

Regardless, a war we must win and converting the hearts and minds is essential.
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2017, 03:53:43 PM »

True that the fight has to be against Islam's ideology but Islam will not engage. They are even ostracizing and killing Muslims that promote such a discourse.

Regards
DL

2.6 billion Muslims. They can't kill that many apostates. The message will continue apace if we give it room to grow.

True, but while we wait for it to grow, many die.

http://www.therebel.media/tiffany_gabbay_april_19

Regards
DL

Regardless, a war we must win and converting the hearts and minds is essential.

I agree, but Muslim minds are closed thanks to their idol worship.

We are slowly winning but again, at the loss of many lives on both sides.

Let us thank all the Gods that Muslims are mostly killing other Muslims.

Regards
DL
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#TheShadowyAbyss
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« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2017, 05:44:07 PM »
« Edited: February 27, 2017, 05:53:46 PM by #TheShadowyAbyss »

How about sitting and actually trying to talk to us I also see that idiot I am has finally decided to come out of a board that's not the religion board in philosophy how nice. Also may I remind everybody here that the Middle East actually really did not have a problem with the West until politics got in the way with the west side to side over Israel  plus the illegal Wars in Iraq  plus the regime change in Iran, Libya, Iraq now and Egypt and Syria need I continue?


Also, last time I checked the west considers Saudi Arabia to be an ally and gives them money to fund Wahabbist ideology around the world. ADD that to the INTENSE distrust for the west and you get what want have today. Instead if demonizing the ENTIRE community how about meeting with those of us (like myself) who want to establish a good interfaith and intercommunal  relations because we know what it takes to override Wahabbist Ideology and the Radical Shia regime in Iran  (who by the way most Iranians actually like the U.S. personally but not the government.)

Oh wait I'm Muslim I'm not allowed to criticize the policies of the West because to some that makes me a terrorist or a sympathizer according to TRUMP  I'll just go back in my corner.
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2017, 06:55:18 PM »

How about sitting and actually trying to talk to us I also see that idiot I am has finally decided to come out of a board that's not the religion board in philosophy how nice. Also may I remind everybody here that the Middle East actually really did not have a problem with the West until politics got in the way with the west side to side over Israel  plus the illegal Wars in Iraq  plus the regime change in Iran, Libya, Iraq now and Egypt and Syria need I continue?


Also, last time I checked the west considers Saudi Arabia to be an ally and gives them money to fund Wahabbist ideology around the world. ADD that to the INTENSE distrust for the west and you get what want have today. Instead if demonizing the ENTIRE community how about meeting with those of us (like myself) who want to establish a good interfaith and intercommunal  relations because we know what it takes to override Wahabbist Ideology and the Radical Shia regime in Iran  (who by the way most Iranians actually like the U.S. personally but not the government.)

Oh wait I'm Muslim I'm not allowed to criticize the policies of the West because to some that makes me a terrorist or a sympathizer according to TRUMP  I'll just go back in my corner.

Let's talk buddy.

I appreciate that some might not like the West pushing their agenda.

That agenda is more or less saying that the duty of free people, the West, trying to insure that all people have and share in the same freedom we enjoy.

Is trying to free the non-free world not a free man's highest responsibility?

Regards
DL
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