The Virginia Society for the Preservation and Appreciation of High-Quality Posts

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I may have missed someone else pointing it out so forgive me if this has already been said, but it’s not merely Corbyn and his friends in Leadership (although they certainly are part of the problem), but what (who) the phenomenon of “Corbynism” has attracted to Labour.

That is to say, even if Corbyn and his allies in the Party are not intentionally engaging in anti-Semitic tropes or ignoring incidents of anti-Semitism within Labour circles, the indisputable reality is that Corbyn’s rise to Leadership has brought out the most noxious and extremist aspects of the Left who do indeed, to one extent or another, believe in some kind of (((Zionist))) conspiracy - and, as indicated, wrap their anti-Semitism in a thinly veiled condemnation of ISRAELI APARTHEID (or “Jewish supremacist settler-colonialism” *le sigh*). And that’s when they’re being subtle.

Not that I want to make some sort of false equivalence, but if you look at how white nationalists seem to love Donald J Trump and how he doesn’t seem to have any problems whatsoever with that support, one would hope that the anti-Semitic parts of the Left loving Corbyn would give him and his best intentioned supporters pause. Especially since, as CrabCake and others have noted, a leftist party ought to hold itself to higher standards than “but wait, we’re not any worse than the Tories!”

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

For the record, my own opinion of IceSpear is that he's (sadly) a sort of prophet of the (profoundly toxic and, yes, deplorable) political and social trends of rural America, but that he oversells this with his obvious relish at how this confirms his snobbish preconceptions about non-yuppie lifestyles. I think he's someone who (more or less rightly) hates anything and everything that the Republican Party stands for, and that currently includes rural culture writ large, on account of the, again, escalating knee-jerk sectional voting. Hopefully the fact that people seem to like him and his #analysis overall will make him more receptive to the pushback he gets for the more overtly classist remarks he sometimes makes.

The one thing I wish more than anything else is that he'd decouple his perceptions of "the working class" from his perceptions of "rural areas"; I object to many of his takes on both but his takes on the former are significantly more galling. The most frothing-at-the-mouth MAGA bigots in rural areas tend to be the people who are relatively well-off (although obviously not nearly as rich as people on the Upper West Side or the Philadelphia Main Line), and both afleitch and I wrote about the presence of a pointedly left-leaning sector of the working class among young people in urban areas in this thread.

[GeorgiaModerate]

The reason the President will be forced to step down is not because of the current composition of the House and Senate Republican Parties. It's because he's a smoking asteroid poised to hit the GOP in non-dark red regions. Yes, the bulk of the caucuses are conservative (and so are most Republican Governors). But this is an analysis that is incorrect and flawed.

There's 1 GOP Senator from Maine, 1 from Pennsylvania, 1 from Ohio, 1 from Wisconsin, 2 from Iowa, 2 from North Carolina, 2 from Georgia, 2 from Texas, and 1 from Arizona. Collectively, these add up to 13 Republican Senator from states that are not solid red states. Each of the aforementioned states were carried by one to three of the following conditions (1) Obama carried the state twice (2) There's an existing bench of Democratic officeholders (3) These states are recognized as rapidly emerging swing states.

In the House, the GOP lost 40 seats in key suburban-dominated districts that also double as key Republican constituencies for statewide office. As of last count, there are 20 House Republicans that won only up to 52% of their races. (So, that's up to 60 seats in range).

Among the governorships, up in 2020 and 2022, Ohio, Florida, Maryland, New Hampshire, Montana, Texas are all up. Again, states that fulfill one of the 3 conditions (or all 3 conditions) aforementioned.

The big reason Trump is going to be booted is because his popularity is non-transferable outside deep red states. The reason they send him to deep red states is because that's the only set of places in the country he's transferable. Reagan and W. Bush were able to transfer their popularity to areas of the country that weren't right wing. Trump can't. This is the reason W and Reagan were able to hold onto their party support for 6 and 8 years respectively (look at '86 - Reagan helped the GOP pick up 8 governorships).

As for the Democrats, since someone is going to point to Clinton and Obama - Clinton lost Congress and a ton of seats but he was the first Democrat in 12 years and demonstrated that he was the only Democrat in the entire country that could win a major office. That is why they stuck with him. As for Obama, he held the Senate for the Democrats for 6 years. (Both Clinton and Obama also had higher approval ratings on balance and were able to demonstrate their viability to win a second term and transfer their political popularity downballot to at least some Democrats).

The main point is that Trump is a huge gigantic vulnerability around the Republican Party. There is literally no upside outside red areas for Republicans to want Trump at the top of the ticket or as President. If Mississippi and Louisiana and Kentucky are close races next week, I expect that point to be reinforced.

And Trump will not change his behavior and not generate numerous scandals that will reinforce his properties as damaging to non-dark red Republicans. In fact, he could in theory survive a three way race but most of the downballot Republicans will only go to 2 way races, meaning they need to pick up anti-Trump supporters along the way. As long as he's President, that will never happen.

Impeachment is a political question. And for most of the Senate Republicans, their fear of Trump's base is overridden by the fact that Trump is a disastrous anchor around their neck. This is why the key dam that could NOT be breached was the House Democrats agreeing to open an impeachment inquiry.

It's why I think Mike Pence (who campaigned in Virginia this week) will ultimately become #46. If I recall, Pence's favorable ratings are higher than Trump.

If Democrats win the LA and KY governorships and hold the MS governorship to like 2-4% for the GOP, and sweep the VA legislature, I think that sets off a panic.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

KY Politics at the State level are statewide politics but tie into an Historical Narrative, which can trickle into Federal GE Races....

The revival of the Trade Union Movement in the Form of the Teacher's Strikes in Kentucky have revived the memories of older retirees in a heavily white impoverished State.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/13/us/teacher-walkout-kentucky-oklahoma-arizona/index.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2019/03/20/teacher-strike-sickout-kentucky-jcps-wayne-lewis-names-list/3223587002/

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/education/2019/02/28/kentucky-teacher-sickout-strike-due-to-pension-system-bill/3012091002/

https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/409014-some-in-kentucky-teacher-strike-were-confused-says-governor

https://apnews.com/3622dc9b61204787a5b5f3da24e409e1


Although this did not directly cripple the KY State Republican Party, it is clear that they got a punch in the face from segments of the electorate that they had expected to win, based upon the popularity of the 'Pub brand on items such as Energy Policy, Social Conservative Religious Platforms, and even possibly even Gun Owners (Although that vast majority of KY Voters have a firearm within their house).

Anybody who chooses to believe that many registered KY DEMs within the Coal Country of SE KY have forgotten their Coal Miner Daughter Roots, let alone Coal Counties of Western Kentucky (Muhlenberg County for one example) have forgotten their Trade Union Ancestral Roots, must be smoking a bigger and stronger form of Crystal Meth than any of the "crackheads" within the declining Timber Mill and Factory Towns of Downstate Oregon....

UMWA Pension Plans have been screwed over from the bosses for a long time, which is currently one of the major items for the rump of the UMWA, while meanwhile there are literally generations of Coal Miners within the tight-knit communities of Appalachia that will always remember and never forget, while meanwhile their kids and grandkids migrate to the bright-lights and big cities of places like Cinci, Indie, Chi-Town....

"Insert John Prine Song from the early '70s"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEy6EuZp9IY

No Question: Beshear's win was directly a result of the Union Movement activists in a heavily Non-Union State, with the small exception of a handful of Public Sector Workers (Teachers, Cops, Firefighters, County, State, and Municipal Employees) that were getting screwed over by the same type of forced "Austerity Politics" we have seen enforced against our rural communities over the decades from both Democratic and Republican Political Leaders alike.

[DINGO Joe]

KY Politics at the State level are statewide politics but tie into an Historical Narrative, which can trickle into Federal GE Races....

The revival of the Trade Union Movement in the Form of the Teacher's Strikes in Kentucky have revived the memories of older retirees in a heavily white impoverished State.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/13/us/teacher-walkout-kentucky-oklahoma-arizona/index.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2019/03/20/teacher-strike-sickout-kentucky-jcps-wayne-lewis-names-list/3223587002/

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/education/2019/02/28/kentucky-teacher-sickout-strike-due-to-pension-system-bill/3012091002/

https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/409014-some-in-kentucky-teacher-strike-were-confused-says-governor

https://apnews.com/3622dc9b61204787a5b5f3da24e409e1


Although this did not directly cripple the KY State Republican Party, it is clear that they got a punch in the face from segments of the electorate that they had expected to win, based upon the popularity of the 'Pub brand on items such as Energy Policy, Social Conservative Religious Platforms, and even possibly even Gun Owners (Although that vast majority of KY Voters have a firearm within their house).

Anybody who chooses to believe that many registered KY DEMs within the Coal Country of SE KY have forgotten their Coal Miner Daughter Roots, let alone Coal Counties of Western Kentucky (Muhlenberg County for one example) have forgotten their Trade Union Ancestral Roots, must be smoking a bigger and stronger form of Crystal Meth than any of the "crackheads" within the declining Timber Mill and Factory Towns of Downstate Oregon....

UMWA Pension Plans have been screwed over from the bosses for a long time, which is currently one of the major items for the rump of the UMWA, while meanwhile there are literally generations of Coal Miners within the tight-knit communities of Appalachia that will always remember and never forget, while meanwhile their kids and grandkids migrate to the bright-lights and big cities of places like Cinci, Indie, Chi-Town....

"Insert John Prine Song from the early '70s"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEy6EuZp9IY

No Question: Beshear's win was directly a result of the Union Movement activists in a heavily Non-Union State, with the small exception of a handful of Public Sector Workers (Teachers, Cops, Firefighters, County, State, and Municipal Employees) that were getting screwed over by the same type of forced "Austerity Politics" we have seen enforced against our rural communities over the decades from both Democratic and Republican Political Leaders alike.

For whatever reason, KY coal was far less unionized than WV, and there are no union coal mines left in KY.  Bloody Harlan actually swung hard towards Bevin in this election, though the coal county swings were generally mixed and minimal.  What won the election for Beshear was a substantial swing in all the "educated" counties in KY (counties with 20% or more of 25 and over with a college degree) and especially in counties with a higher education institution.  Yeah, Bevin definitely made the teachers mad (cause he's a disrespectful jerk) but did they rekindled the union spirit in coal country? no.

[NOVA Green]

KY Politics at the State level are statewide politics but tie into an Historical Narrative, which can trickle into Federal GE Races....

The revival of the Trade Union Movement in the Form of the Teacher's Strikes in Kentucky have revived the memories of older retirees in a heavily white impoverished State.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/13/us/teacher-walkout-kentucky-oklahoma-arizona/index.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2019/03/20/teacher-strike-sickout-kentucky-jcps-wayne-lewis-names-list/3223587002/

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/education/2019/02/28/kentucky-teacher-sickout-strike-due-to-pension-system-bill/3012091002/

https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/409014-some-in-kentucky-teacher-strike-were-confused-says-governor

https://apnews.com/3622dc9b61204787a5b5f3da24e409e1


Although this did not directly cripple the KY State Republican Party, it is clear that they got a punch in the face from segments of the electorate that they had expected to win, based upon the popularity of the 'Pub brand on items such as Energy Policy, Social Conservative Religious Platforms, and even possibly even Gun Owners (Although that vast majority of KY Voters have a firearm within their house).

Anybody who chooses to believe that many registered KY DEMs within the Coal Country of SE KY have forgotten their Coal Miner Daughter Roots, let alone Coal Counties of Western Kentucky (Muhlenberg County for one example) have forgotten their Trade Union Ancestral Roots, must be smoking a bigger and stronger form of Crystal Meth than any of the "crackheads" within the declining Timber Mill and Factory Towns of Downstate Oregon....

UMWA Pension Plans have been screwed over from the bosses for a long time, which is currently one of the major items for the rump of the UMWA, while meanwhile there are literally generations of Coal Miners within the tight-knit communities of Appalachia that will always remember and never forget, while meanwhile their kids and grandkids migrate to the bright-lights and big cities of places like Cinci, Indie, Chi-Town....

"Insert John Prine Song from the early '70s"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEy6EuZp9IY

No Question: Beshear's win was directly a result of the Union Movement activists in a heavily Non-Union State, with the small exception of a handful of Public Sector Workers (Teachers, Cops, Firefighters, County, State, and Municipal Employees) that were getting screwed over by the same type of forced "Austerity Politics" we have seen enforced against our rural communities over the decades from both Democratic and Republican Political Leaders alike.

For whatever reason, KY coal was far less unionized than WV, and there are no union coal mines left in KY.  Bloody Harlan actually swung hard towards Bevin in this election, though the coal county swings were generally mixed and minimal.  What won the election for Beshear was a substantial swing in all the "educated" counties in KY (counties with 20% or more of 25 and over with a college degree) and especially in counties with a higher education institution.  Yeah, Bevin definitely made the teachers mad (cause he's a disrespectful jerk) but did they rekindled the union spirit in coal country? no.

At the risk of posting directly into the thread regarding a post that I made late last Night...

1.) Public Sector Workers are the 2nd largest Employer within Kentucky, and have still not seen job levels recover to pre Great-Recession levels because of slashing of funding by Municipal, State, and Federal Government agencies.

2.) The wages paid to public sector employees in KY are significantly lower than equivalent jobs within the private sector, and additionally the State of KY has been slashing benefits for various Union Employees within the State.

3.) These workers live throughout KY, but because of the economic poverty within the most rural parts of KY account for a disproportionate share of public vs private sector employment.

4.) It was not "just the teachers" that were upset, but also fellow public sector workers, parents and grandparents of kids in public school, small business owners in economically declining communities which used to be heavily proud mining communities, and other resource based communities.

5.) There was no "Option 9" for Coal Country like there was for Timber dependent communities in Oregon back in the '90s, no shifts in how State Educational $$$ were shifted so that communities with declining tax base could keep schools running, no vocational retraining programs to ease the transition, like we had in Oregon.

6.) Instead, there was Government austerity under Dem and Pub Politicians alike from Presidents of both parties at the Federal Level, and at the State level attempts to lure FDI into KY, or steal formerly Union Auto jobs from across the Ohio River into KY, under a giant corporate subsidy scheme, get into the Warehouse and Transportation gig. A virtual "Race to the Bottom".

7.) It is true that the swings in Coal Country (and yes I was watching Harlan County last night) were necessary but not sufficient without major swings elsewhere, including the relatively small handful of "Upper Middle Class White Educated Suburbs".

8.) I still stand by my point that KY still has an Ancestral Jacksonian Working Class Populist roots where the Mine Workers were in many ways the ones that set the standard for a dramatic improvement in the conditions of the people over many decades.

9.) You made some good points on the other thread, and quite frankly are well worthy of discussion regarding swings in counties among "Native KY" vs "Non-Native"... Bookmarked the site for future ref since you can drill down by County for every State.   

Anyways, here's just one link about the economic breakdown of KY from '18, but ultimately I think we might need to wait to see the precinct results published to see what's going on in the "Metro" portions of KY vs the "rurals"     

https://kypolicy.org/the-state-of-working-kentucky-2018/

Meanwhile listening to Phil Ochs: "No Christmas in Kentucky" from way back in the early '60s to warm everbody up for the Holiday Season...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK5QSOodqhg

[DINGO Joe]

NOVA, thanks for the reply.  Will wait for a analysis thread to renew the discussion.  FWIW, I got my college education numbers from Census Quickfacts maps

Census Quick Facts

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

And I looked it up, apparently she does want to do 6% on wealth over $1B!  So in 20 years, Bill Gates will have lost $80B of his $110B fortune.  That is INSANE.

Do you not realize that what you call insane is actually seen by several folks hanging out in this thread (and many more out in the real world) as actually a good thing. Bringing an end to the preposterous existence of the ultra wealthy as a defined class of people is a good thing. They will never want on an individual level if this becomes a reality. None of their kids is likely to ever suffer the stings of poverty if it does either. And likely many generations down the line they'll still be benefiting in various ways from their ancestor's wealth. If not via direct inheritance then by the various levers of power a parent of that level of wealth can push to open doors for them that are shut for anyone else, even without realizing they're doing it.

So Bill Gates and company, they'll be fine. They don't need to worry about retirement under this wealth tax. Unless they suddenly figure out a way to live for a hundred thousand years or something absurd like that.

So... any argument trying to liken it to a retirement fund is absurd on face. Even before one factors in the means for which he is already stock pilling vast sums of wealth despite giving away tons of it for his own projects.

If you want to know the details of plans on how to avoid accidental promotion of tax shelter horse purchases, feel free to ask the Warren (or Sanders) campaigns what their plans are. I could speculate of course, but in general, if there exists a market for something, there tends to be ways to evaluate the cost of items in that market. Including ridiculously priced horses. Even if the horse becomes a gelding.

So... again, your argument is a little absurd.

So lets go to the unsaid argument that you hint at with the bit I quoted. You appear to be using all this nonsense as a means to argue for there existing individuals with absurd amounts of personal capital because reasons. That's the argument you're making once you cut out all the 'but mah fairness!' cries and attempts to distract with 'but what about this complicated but solvable problem, why don't you lay out every detail for me right now so I can ignore the central core of the issue entirely and nit pick about random people on the internet not being experts on horse breeding', there is this want of yours to defend billionaires as a class as a starting point.

Why? Why do you specifically want to defend their existence in our society?

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I think we can all agree that Pete has a ways to go as far as making inroads with the black community and it starts specifically with him being more forthcoming about his Douglass Plan and not just attaching the names of black community leaders onto the plan who didn't actually endorse it.

But the sad attempts to disqualify him, say he's a racist, say he's a Republican in disguise...all stem from the fact that he had the unmitigated gall to challenge Warren/Sanders (both of whom I support and agree with on most issues) and run for President without having "better experience" (which, since we're doing buzzwords, is an Obama-era Republican talking point)

You can disagree with a candidate, you can find their approach lackluster or even cringeworthy, but hurling accusations of racism at someone and saying they "never cared about black people until they ran for President" is disturbing.

We have to refocus and realize that any of the candidates running on the Democratic side--including Delaney, Gabbard, Biden, Marianne, etc--are all leagues better than Trump, who locks kids in cages, spits in the face of our allies fighting ISIS, sides with dictators over our own intelligence community, is using the Presidency to enrich himself, is both an accused and admitted sexual predator, couches everything he says about minority communities in racist language, and flat out does not believe people who disagree with him are entitled to equal rights.

It doesn't mean you shouldn't fight for the candidate you believe in, and if you believe Pete is not left-wing enough for your liking, that's understandable. But playing into these GOP talking points about the other candidates, especially the ones who may have a legitimate chance to win the nomination, is not helpful and only makes the work we have to do once a nominee is chosen that much more difficult. And that also goes for the hashtag moderate heroes tearing apart Warren and Sanders. Because if one of them wins the nomination, we have to get behind them in a unified fashion as well.

Anyway, that's my 0.02 after reading the last couple pages on this thread. Have a good day, y'all.

[Antonio the Sixth]

It really is disgusting, isn't it? I haven't had such little faith in the moderating team since the 2015 episode. We had a nice little upswing in trust with the upgrades and with only isolated incidents by specific moderators, but now there is a dark energy present. Remember when transparency became a priority to win back the faith of the community? Whatever happened to that?

A timeout was not totally unwarranted and certain posts maybe could be deleted. Heck, I will even withhold judgement on a temporary ban for our dear friend without knowing every fact (though I will vehemently oppose this "solution" to deal with a forum institution). However, with no announcement or explanation, it eliminated any chance for serious forum outrage. I guess this is just lessons learned from opebo.

What is the 2015 incident

Throughout 2015 there were a series of incidents that caused successive waves of people to lose faith in the moderation of the forum, which paralleled the rise of AAD as an alternative over the course of that year.

1. February - The banning of Napoleon
2. Early 2015 - The locking of the update
3. June - The wrongful banning of four posters as socks - followed by their unbanning once their facebook's proved they were real people.
4. Mid July - A mod got appointed, then got banned, after which the poster he had been going after "self-banned" out of guilt
5. Mid to late July - The mod cave got hacked.

Ah yes, the locking of the update.  I too remember when a bunch of posters complained after the mods locked an attention-whoring megathread started by a morbidly obese, intellectually challenged individual who may or may not have had some sort of psychological/mental issues (assuming the whole thing wasn’t just a hoax by BushOklahoma) because it deprived them of the chance to continue encouraging his self-destructive behavior so they could keep using him as their own personal circus freak and laugh every time he inevitably made an even bigger mess of his life.  Clearly the mods were the ones in the wrong

As for Napoleon, he was a sock created by Hamilton, one of the more infamous recurring sock masters from days of Atlas past.  The Napoleon sock, I should add, was also quite a vindictive persona which Hamilton used to make some pretty nasty personal attacks.  In fact, there was generally much rejoicing all around when he was banned, so I’m not sure who would have lost faith in the mods simply because they banned a disruptive and rather nasty sock account. 

Regarding the mod who got banned, I hope you don’t mean BushOklahoma because he only became a mod after some folks thought it would be funny to make him a mod, so they attempted to manufacture a conflict so he could then “resolve it.”  BushOklahoma was indeed briefly made a mod - admittedly a pretty astounding case of bad judgement by whoever decided to let him be one - and was ultimately removed for good reason.  BushOklahoma eventually got deservedly banned.  I mean, I’d argue it’s not a great idea to have someone on Atlas who tried to use the forum to pitch financial scams to other posters (IIRC BushOklahoma tried to get folks to invest in an obvious pyramid scheme), but that’s just me

At first I thought you were referring to Inks, but he was never banned and JerryArkansas still posts on Atlas (I believe he got in an argument with Sawx a couple months ago, in fact).

As for the ModLeaks, a subsequently banned poster by the name of Tweed maliciously manipulated BK - who was a mod at the time - into sharing his password.  Tweed then - unbeknownst to BK IIRC - used the password to enter the guy’s account and then proceeded to post a bunch of stuff from the modcave for sh!ts and giggles.  Once again, clearly the mod team were the real villains here  

As I recall, the general sentiment was less one of loss of faith in the mods and more 1) a bunch of folks implicitly going “OMG what did the mods say about me?  Hey!  They’re not even talking about me?  Well, I guess this was a dud; I was promised juicy gossip ;” and 2) “that was a really sh!ty thing Tweed did to BK!”  I could be misremembering b/c it was a while ago, but I believe that was how most reacted.

Also, AAD hasn’t had a real “rise” since it can’t stand on its own two feet.  It is effectively a leech that would wither and die were Atlas to shut down for some reason b/c it depends on Atlas for members.  I briefly checked out AAD early on and de-registered b/c it seemed to be largely a collection folks complaining about how Atlasia was killing their efforts to get a higher daily post count on AAD than Atlas, a bunch of banned posters (including some Nazis) saying horrible stuff with impunity due to Hockeydude’s “anything goes” moderation policy despite one guy getting banned there for, if memory serves, calling Hockeydude an idiot or something to that effect (b/c clearly that’s much worse than what folks like Enzige or Libertas posted ), liberals “ironically” supporting Trump for President (not so funny in hindsight), and threads reserved for things like discussion of BRTD’s obsession with something called Sneakers O’Toole. 

To be fair, there were some good posters who now mainly post there like Oakvale and Gully Foyle, but not enough to outweigh the site’s negative qualities.  There was some good political discussion, but it was also a massive echo chamber.  Granted, I deregistered a long time ago, so it definitely could have gotten better since, but at least initially, it was really strong evidence in support of having a very active, hands-on mod team.

[Kung Fu Kenny]

Masterful:

https://twitter.com/ArkansasOnline/status/1197252428107800577?s=19

Okay, but

How many porn stars did he sleep with while his wife was giving birth, and then pay them off to keep quiet?

How long was his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein?

How many times did Hunter claim he could shoot people and not lose any supporters?

How many times has Hunter openly pondered about doing away with constitutional norms and elections altogether so that he could have more time in the White House?

How many racial slurs has he uttered?

How many women did he brag about assaulting?

How many countries did Hunter withhold aid to so that they would give him dirt on his opponents?

How many agreements on climate change did Hunter withdraw the US from?

On how many 9/11 anniversaries did Hunter invite the Taliban for dinner at Camp David?

How many cabinet members has Hunter gone through in nearly 4 years, after bragging about always knowing the best people to hire?

How many Nazis did Hunter refer to as "very fine people?"

How many cultists has Hunter inspired with hatred and bile?

How many rallies did Hunter encourage people to knock the crap out of other people?

How many 13 year olds was he accused of raping?

How many war heroes did Hunter degrade and slander?

How careless has Hunter been with classified intelligence, causing the CIA to extract one of their assets?

How many dictators is Hunter friends with, and how many does he praise?

How many times has he filed for bankruptcy?

How many of his businesses have failed?

How many races has he labeled as rapists and criminals?

How many female dressing rooms has Hunter busted into to drool over the women?

How many times have Hunter's companies been sued for racial discrimination?

How many bone spurs does Hunter have?

How many non-white elected officials has Hunter accused of not being born in this country?

How many times has he accused his opponents relatives of being involved in the JFK assassination?

How many time he did openly encourage "the 2nd amendment people" to shoot his political opponents?

How many old ladies did Hunter kick out of their homes so he could build something on their property?

How many times did he claim that members of a certain race were disloyal for supporting one political party of another?

How many predominately African nations has Hunter referred to as sh**tholes?



I haven't even reached the tip of the iceberg, but I await your response to each of these.

[Morning in Atlas]

I actually do believe that while Obama is a better campaigner, Joe Biden is the better political operator.

Obama wasn't a good political operator, other than when it came to his own campaigns. Aside of campaigning for President he never actually created his own political base. His handling of the Democratic Party was pretty disappointing too. First he tossed Dean aside (to whom and his 50 states strategy he owed a lot), replacing him with Kaine (who I like a lot, but who was never a good fit for the role). Then he completely abdicated his role as a party leader, culminating in DWS becoming a chair, and we all know how she performed. We've even see the situation when the DNC chair vocally opposed one of her President's signature policies (Iran deal), something I don't think would've happened under LBJ or Clinton. It's no coincidence Democrats were so decimated on state and local levels on Obama's watch. Obama saw the party primarily as an engine for his own ambitions, caring little for helping fellow Democrats, as shown by his reluctance to share donors and email lists with the party. He tossed aside many people who sticked their necks out for him, when Hillary was still a frontrunner once he got into power. Sure, Bill Clinton was ambitious as hell, but he was actually a team player and had some sense of loyalty.

[Xing]

Electability is a lie, a manipulation built to prevent us from seeing the clear truth of how politics actually works. If it was not something people thought about, people would select the candidate that appeals to them well, and that candidate, via virtue of being appealing like that, would in the end win via the actually being really electable because they could convince people to vote for them the best compared to the alternatives.

But... instead we get this second guessing nonsense and insistences that so and so is best for what ever reasons we want to argue for as defining electability. Instead of, you know, people just letting the appeal of the candidates answer the question via the primary election.

Man... I am so done with the term electability. There's a reason I did a youtube video about how its nonsense. And will do so again before the year is up.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Electability is a lie, a manipulation built to prevent us from seeing the clear truth of how politics actually works. If it was not something people thought about, people would select the candidate that appeals to them well, and that candidate, via virtue of being appealing like that, would in the end win via the actually being really electable because they could convince people to vote for them the best compared to the alternatives.

But... instead we get this second guessing nonsense and insistences that so and so is best for what ever reasons we want to argue for as defining electability. Instead of, you know, people just letting the appeal of the candidates answer the question via the primary election.

Man... I am so done with the term electability. There's a reason I did a youtube video about how its nonsense. And will do so again before the year is up.

Excellent post, yeah.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

On Trump's anti-Semitic executive order:

Again, we know what he is. Sure, his antisemitism is "benevolent" right now, in that he likes us for our supposed money savvy. That only lasts until Jared and Ivanka have a bad fight or his stock portfolio takes a tumble.

This is why you don't vote for unstable populists. No, his SOP isn't "kill the Jews", but he's clearly internalized a lot of the views that lead to that.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Not sure if this is serious, but I'll try to give an answer.

The basic story of Christianity is that humanity fell in original sin and continues to sin. Since the offense is beyond our ability to repair, God himself provides the payment in the form of himself: Christ being crucified for our sins. This is fundamentally the story of the Gospel: the good news of salvation.

At first pass, this doesn't have any obvious relationship to American politics and is entirely outside the context of the American political spectrum. Of course, however, Jesus does clearly provide for us an example of how we ought to live that has ramifications for all facets of our lives. Some aspects of his example are what we would consider "liberal" (e.g. helping the poor) and some "conservative" (e.g. divorce, lust). But these descriptors are mostly culturally dependent and would have made no sense to early Christianity.

Jesus was not a political revolutionary. Many of his contemporaries longed for a political messiah who would build his kingdom right there in ancient Israel as an earthly kingdom, but that is not the kind of messiah Jesus was. Jesus's command wasn't to be a "good person"; it was to give up everything and follow him. Of course he also had some messages about what a person ought to do along the way that are specific and generally applicable. Jesus (sounding perhaps like what you would call Bernie Sanders like) commanded us to help the poor. Notice the command is always a personal obligation rather than a command to support a political movement. He told us to give our money to the poor, not to campaign for increased taxes on landlords. His commands on sexuality were likewise our own condemnation for failing to comply, not political commands. The question of politics is of secondary, minimal importance. The primary importance is always repentance and conversion.

So how ought we to live in a political society like modern democracy? Well, first and foremost by following Jesus's commands. To ask of others what we refuse to do ourselves is to be like the Pharisees who are condemned most severely. Now, alongside of that is the role we play in our political decisions to vote for candidates who will work best for the good of society: for its conversion, for the poor, for moral social norms, etc. In this is often a fair criticism of many Republicans. Some of us may believe the government should do more to help the poor but that the Democrats are worse for a variety of reasons, some may earnestly believe the government was never desired to be the avenue for welfare spending to begin with, some may think the government does more harm than good, some may not give a crap and want to virtue signal. The world is full of complicated people with mixed motives. If you want a simple answer, you will never get one that is true for a question like this.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I'm not sure he has to do anything particularly noteworthy to win it; unlike SC, IA has never had one candidate running away with the race and there's been a lot of movement in the top 4.  Sanders just needs his people to show up.

What he does afterwards is the big question, and I agree with a lot of what DINOTom has been saying, and I've been saying it myself for months- I'm not sure Sanders has a realistic path.  To the extent he has one, he has to win IA/NH, and likely in a decisive way.  Which wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility- he has a high floor and possibly the most loyal base of the nominees.  But he also seems to have a low ceiling- he's never been able to break out of his faction.

The problem is he hasn't been able to expand to the 3 Dem groups not in his tent- a) Biden voters that may have Sanders a second choice but are sticking with Biden for now; b) blacks; c) the group of voters that went Harris > Warren > Buttigieg.

Group B is not that critical for IA... but in any case, if A and B were going to abandon Biden, I think the signs would've been there way earlier, and we're running out of time for that.  I don't think group C is ever going to warm up to Sanders.  Now I know people on this forum keep saying things like, if the Warren and Sanders groups could just unite, they'd overtake Biden!  And yes, that might be mathematically true, but it ignores the fact that they had multiple chances to embrace Sanders and have rejected him 3 times now- he's never been the flavor-of-the-month for them.

Now why is that?  That's a more interesting question and a little beyond the point of this thread, but one reason is because they simply don't share interests with the Sanders folks.  This group are Dems mostly because of social issues and their revealed preferences through polling this entire cycle have demonstrated they're more interested in the demographics, identity, culturally affinity etc., with a candidate, and not so much their policies.  People have kept saying on this forum, if Warren would just drop out... oh please please please (or vice versa, please drop out Sanders!), well.. Warren didn't drop out per se, but she certainly declined, and lo and behold- guess where all those voters went?  Not to Sanders.

And I think it's that group which is going to keep Sanders from really getting the decisive victory he needs to have groups A and B start to re-evaluate their Biden support. 

So in short, sure- he can win IA, and it wouldn't even be that surprising to me.  But I don't know where he goes from there, even if he takes NH.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

can't believe I'm about to do this but this maybe the best post I've seen on this site all year

The problem is that when people ARE willing to work, they are often put in the position where they no longer qualify for Medicaid, but have either (A) no health insurance, or (B) health insurance with such a high deductable that they can't afford to go to the doctor, or maybe (C) where they can go to the doctor, but they can't afford the medication prescribed.  People tell working uninsured people to "show up at the ER", but when they do, they often get minimal care and a "referral" to their "family doctor" or "a specialist" who often won't see them unless they come up with hundreds of dollars for the exam.  The only help these working uninsured can hope for is by begging whatever "charity" is available to them and hope it will work.  The reward for these people is to, sometimes, fill out pages of forms, only to be told that they don't qualify for their "charity".  That's a bitter pill for people who work. 

I've know a family who have two daughters with asthma, serious enough to need daily medicine.  They know single mothers who have kids with asthma whose meds are free; they have to pay both the doctor and the pharmacy for the inhalers, and while they go to a provider that uses a "sliding scale", it's still a lot of money.  (The kids' Dad took a second job and now has to pay more on the "sliding scale".)  As asthma is a chronic condition, these girls will have to go to the doctor regularly to keep up the prescription.  They don't live high on the hog; they live paycheck to paycheck.   Dad has a bad knee; he lives with it because he can't afford the surgery to correct the problem.  Dad and Mom both have painful molars, but all they can afford is for the bad teeth to be extracted, and they have to save up for that.

I can't tell you how many WORKING people go through life with bad backs, painful teeth, kids with chronic conditions that are not optimally managed, and other situations such as this.  It's a lot.  Now I think that a stable society is built on marital families, and not single parents with social service benefits (in the aggregate).  But individuals don't make decisions based upon what's reality in the aggregate; they make decision based on what's best for their families.  If a mother does the math and considers that a child's housing and medical needs are more easily met by safety net subsidies and staying unmarried (even if there is a significant other in the picture providing financial support) as opposed to getting married and losing healthcare, it's hard on certain levels to find fault. 

There is something wrong with a nation and a people where we're fine in telling people to get of their butt and work, but we don't care if their kids can go to a doctor, or if their own chronic conditions can receive meaningful treatment.  There is something wrong with people suffering unnecessarily.  I don't believe that death is a preventable accident, but a good deal of healthcare is more than keeping people alive; it's keeping people's daily discomfort, and even suffering, at a minimum so they can function, and function more fully.

I mean holy  I am floored. Almost every sentence is empathetic, kind, and jarringly accurate. It's beautiful.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Whatever my many other problems with Fuzzy, he's fantastic on health care. This is one of the best Atlas posts I've ever seen.

[Santander]

A true Christmas miracle.

[Atlas Force]

There’s a big difference between PC BS and calling out genuinely horrible behavior.  As far as the left goes, the whole idea of rampant SJW-ism is a fiction whose sole basis in reality is a small - but loud and obnoxious - minority of campus whacktivists...with one glaring exception (but more on that later).  If anything, it wouldn’t kill the campus left to be a bit better about practicing what it preaches regarding speaking out against bigotry.  

But let’s start with some definitions: to me, “political correctness” means self-righteously making a bad faith claim to moral superiority over others by self-righteously moralizing about something that is both A) a straw man of the actual position or has been blown waaaaaaay out of proportion and B) which is not actually a discriminatory or prejudicial act.  You cannot have PC policing unless both are present and by definition, it is a bad-faith thing rather than one borne of misguided - but still good-faith - activism.  

“Cancel culture” is a distinctly different thing in my mind and I’d argue that it refers to the idea that we should not reward talented people who have done “horrible things” - whatever that term means to you - with continued professional success.  This is neither an inherently good or bad thing, it depends how reasonably we define “horrible things” and whether we approach this thoughtfully or with a mob mentality.

Put simply, PC policing is not condemning an actual racist for said racial views because racism is a horrible thing that deserves to be condemned.  It is not PC policing to say Columbus Day should no longer be a holiday b/c Columbus was a monster since there are legitimate arguments on both sides that could make for a lively good-faith discourse.  It is PC policing to say that anyone who opposes abolishing Columbus Day is simply a racist against Native-Americans since this is both a bad-faith straw man of the actual position and the mere existence of Columbus Day itself is not inherently discriminatory.  

By the same token, cancel culture could mean we say that because Roman Polanski is literally an unrepentant child rapist who has spent decades as a fugitive from justice, we shouldn’t watch his movies...or it could mean saying we shouldn’t watch Toy Story films b/c Tim Allen was a drug dealer a long time ago before he turned his life around.  How reasonable Cancel Culture is depends on how far you as an individual choose to take it.  Now, onto PC itself!

Imo, there isn’t really much out-of-control PC policing about gender on the left, especially among the campus activist crowd (personally, I’ve actually gotten in some pretty heated arguments at law school over the disturbing amount of #NiceGuy misogyny from the campus left at law school due to my willingness to call out such behavior) particularly in the form of an appalling sense of sexual entitlement as though “saying the right things” somehow means you’ve earned the right to have sex with whoever you want.  You hear lots of rants about “muh feminazis” and I’ve even heard one of the most left-wing people I’ve ever met IRL whine about how it was “not fair” that one of our classmates whom he wanted to sleep with was a lesbian.  Tbh, unless my law school experience is a fluke there are quite a few liberal men who are as misogynistic as any Trumper, but just put up a respectable front in public.

Where there is a PC problem on the left is with race and [albeit to a much lesser degree] religion...but not necessarily in the way conservatives like to claim.  There are a significant number of folks within many of the minority groups in the Democratic coalition: Jews, Muslims, atheists, gays [as opposed to lesbians, who seem to be much better about this sort of thing], African-Americans, etc who are constantly turning a blind eye to demagoguery before turning around demanding other groups tow the line in condemning some trivial outrage of the day ostensibly committed against their community.

Meanwhile, they seldom speak out to defend the communities whose support they feel entitled to from demagogues.  Where was the African-American community when the CBC fought tirelessly to torpedo a congressional resolution condemning anti-Semitism?  Where were the pillars of the Jewish-American community when the time came to condemn Netanyahu for uprooting countless innocent Palestinians and forcibly expelling them from their homes so Jewish settlements could be built in their place?  Where were the Muslim-Americans who attacked Jewish-Americans for turning a blind eye to Israel’s actions in the West Bank when the time came to denounce Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib’s anti-Semitic hate speech?  And why stop at race and religion?  Where is the gay political establishment whenever it is time to speak out about cisgender homosexual community’s discrimination against the transgender community?  

The PC strain on the left is defined by demanding that all others condemn even the smallest slights against one’s own community while those making said demand continue to ignore the large-scale suffering of the communities whose support they expect.

I’d argue that there is far more traditional PC policing on the right than the left.  The 1980-present Christian Right has always had a tendency to engage in highly dogmatic #MoralGuardian behavior while also being defined in part by both a victim complex and insecurity about whether it’s overarching vision is still relevant on social issues at any given moment.  You get things like the “war on Christmas,” the Southern Baptist Convention voting to protest Disney’s Hunchback of Notre Dame movie*, the obsession with banning contraceptives for the sake of banning contraceptives even if it’d make the abortion rate plummet, the fear of minorities gaining acceptance (“what if this changes society so it has even less need for our vision on social issues?  *Gasp*  We might even have to change with the times!”), etc.  

Also, Trump’s whole schtick is white grievance politics.  The backbone of the Republican Party has long been identity politics, and to an even greater degree than the Democratic Party no less.  Trump isn’t new in this respect.  Trump is merely the unchecked Id of the average rank-and-file Republican, speaking with a bullhorn instead of a dog whistle.  Are all Trump voters racists?  Definitely not...but quite a few of them are, and those intending to vote for him in 2020 - racist or not - are at best choosing to turn a blind eye to explicit racism if it furthers their personal agenda.  But I digress...

TL;DR: Political correctness is a thing on the left, but not in the way most people mean when they use the term.  The traditional definition of political correctness and especially racial identity politics are far more of a Republican thing than a Democratic one.

*Even though the only real man of God in it is extremely sympathetic and the film makes a point of distinguishing between the triviality of materialistic prayers for wealth/indulgence of one’s vanity/etc and the spiritual beauty of sincere, altruistic prayers made for those more in need than oneself.  Moreover, the villain is decidedly not a true man of God, but rather implicitly compared to those who sought Christ’s death for fear of his message and even commits the sins of wrath, pride, lust, envy, [spiritual] sloth, and greed [Frollo’s obsessive craving to possess the women he lusts after as though she were an object rather than a person falls under some traditional definitions of greed] all in one scene.  If anything, you’d think religious folks would welcome a children’s film that distinguishes between A) the humble being guided by sincere faith as they help the less fortunate and B) the weak, wicked, and prideful men who use faith as a cover to rationalize their abuse of power to persecute the vulnerable.  It’s a very pro-Christian film imo.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Per the Associated Press: "Iran abandons nuclear deal over US killing general"

https://mobile.twitter.com/AP/status/1213884397004427265?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%...

So where are the posts about how these are shameless, evil Jihadist cultists, mourning their War Criminal Dear Leader over his demise, which was the predictable result of his living by the Sword?  Are these at his funeral not sheep?  Are they not the scum cultists of a Jihadist War Criminal and an LETHAL enemy of the United States of America?

So many here freely and regularly talk of Trump and his supporters in these terms.  That tack ought to be exposed as ridiculous on its face, but the Worst of Atlas have, indeed, doubled down on this tack here.

To question Trump's strategy here is fine and good, and part of democracy.  To cast him as the villian here is utterly ridiculous.  Beyond ridiculous, but there are folks here who are so invested in their hatred for Trump that they can't even back of that.  

It is the casting of Trump as the villain here, which many here have done, that places individuals in the category of being ANTI-American.  That posture goes beyond mere criticism of a President and his strategy.  (And it's a strategy people would have been fine with if Obama did it, regardless of how close we were to election day, and what the polls said.)  Trump may not have made the best decision; he may have even made a flat-out wrong decision, but to cast him as the villain goes beyond mere questioning of our President and his course of action.  

I have to disagree with some of what you say here, in part. First, you are correct when you say that partisan reactions to this might very well be different had President Obama, or President Hillary Clinton, ordered this strike. Democrats are universally condemning Trump's actions, and Republicans are to a man defending them. Secondly, I will repeat that Solemani was a notorious terrorist and a man who deserved the fate that he received. However, that does not mean that the strike was justified, or that it was a reasonable exercise of the President's discretion. The fallout ensuing from this has led to Iran resuming its path towards nuclear armaments, has exacerbated tensions within the region, and damaged our relationships with Iraq and with other allies.

Thirdly, I would think that opposition to a strike such as this would be the correct stance, for one who is anti-war and against interventionism overseas. You yourself have expressed disgust with the foreign policies of the neoconservative camp-such as John Bolton-and of the Bush Administration. What Trump did here is a reversion to that approach. Finally, Trump's action continues in a long and disturbing tradition, extending back at least to Theodore Roosevelt, and probably even earlier, of Presidents taking military action without informing Congress or adhering to the letter of the law. I will remind you that Korea and Vietnam were undeclared military conflicts, and that only Congress has the power to declare war. What Trump did here could instigate a new and unwanted conflict.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I don't get why you're all floored with what Fuzzy posted? He says/posts things like that ALL THE TIME. That's why he's such a fantastic poster, because he's entirely in sync with the needs and concerns of real people because he's an actual, real working class person who bears - willingly and joyfully so - burdens that'd break the lot of you.

[Kung Fu Kenny]

This whole thread needs to be preserved, but this post in particular just helped me ascend:

So, the Jews are mongoloid too, because "Mongloid race came from Pharoah and Jewish Queens"?

The Jews were the cavemen just like the Irish Celts and everyone is white except Negros, as I stated before.  Just like the Dwarf Elf in Infinity Wars, who made Thor's Hammer, was a caveman. Jews go by their last name, if you want to find out if your Hebrew or Irish Celts.

Cave people were Irish Celts, and children of Abraham and Jewish Queens

Listen to Marshall Mathers, dont listen to Beattles

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

We have an Oracle in our midsts.