Autogolpe in Venezuela: The Last Vestige of Democracy Ends
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  Autogolpe in Venezuela: The Last Vestige of Democracy Ends
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Author Topic: Autogolpe in Venezuela: The Last Vestige of Democracy Ends  (Read 2021 times)
WMS
Junior Chimp
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« on: March 31, 2017, 03:06:26 PM »

Damnation, no one's noticed this yet?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-39449494

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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-39459855

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(emphasis mine)

The Chavistas, and the useful idiots that support them, have finally tossed aside the last fig leaf hiding their naked exercise of power. Another unpleasant international development in a decade full of reverses for democracy. Sad

Oh, and on a massive scale, I told you so. Tongue
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Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
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« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2017, 03:07:58 PM »

This is genuinely depressing.
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ApatheticAustrian
ApathicAustrian
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2017, 03:09:52 PM »

i cheered the chavez revolution in 2005....so much is different today......

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DK_Mo82
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« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2017, 03:57:38 PM »
« Edited: March 31, 2017, 03:59:32 PM by DK_Mo82 »

Overdrammatic title.  They will vote Maduro out in 2018 if the election is anything close to fair.

Chavez never held an unfair election and neither have the Chavistas under Maduro. Not to say they won't this time facing certain defeat.  But they are not dictators so again I don't even know if they are capable of staging a rigged election. Even the Mexicans screwed it up in 1988.
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WMS
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2017, 04:01:34 PM »

Overdrammatic title.  They will vote Maduro out in 2018 if the election is anything close to fair.

 They have not yet held an unfair election.  Not to say they won't.
...Seriously?! Shocked That is so far from reality I can't even get snarky about it...
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Beet
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« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2017, 04:03:49 PM »

It's hard to see Maduro succeeding in an anti-democratic coup when his approval rating is hovering around 20 percent. Even a rigged election is not enough to cover up this level of unpopularity.
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ApatheticAustrian
ApathicAustrian
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« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2017, 04:05:43 PM »

Overdrammatic title.  They will vote Maduro out in 2018 if the election is anything close to fair.

Chavez never held an unfair election and neither have the Chavistas under Maduro. Not to say they won't this time facing certain defeat.  But they are not dictators so again I don't even know if they are capable of staging a rigged election. Even the Mexicans screwed it up in 1988.

it may not be a 100% dictatorship atm but it is a very authoritarian autocracy, which has shielded itself against parliamentary defeat and has threatened several times, "the people" can't lose or something like that.
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Nhoj
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« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2017, 04:07:24 PM »

Overdrammatic title.  They will vote Maduro out in 2018 if the election is anything close to fair.

Chavez never held an unfair election and neither have the Chavistas under Maduro. Not to say they won't this time facing certain defeat.  But they are not dictators so again I don't even know if they are capable of staging a rigged election. Even the Mexicans screwed it up in 1988.
Even if they aren't rigging elections there is good reason to think they wont cede power.
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WMS
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2017, 04:11:06 PM »

It's hard to see Maduro succeeding in an anti-democratic coup when his approval rating is hovering around 20 percent. Even a rigged election is not enough to cover up this level of unpopularity.
He's kept the military well-fed and well-paid, often through encouraging their ventures into organized crime. They are corrupt and quite willing to use violence in support of his government. He has also intertwined the political state with organized crime. He - and the Chavistas in general that run things - don't need popular support. And given the borderline starvation stalking the country, it makes it harder to protest when you have to spend the day looking for food. The country at large may be in utter ruin, but the elites at the top - leftist this time around - are doing juuuuuuuust fine. Sad
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kelestian
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« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2017, 04:21:01 PM »

What is Maduro's goal? Looks like he and top allies are in Kim Jong-un mode. It's clear that he isn't going to win next presidential election, even if oil prices will rise, Venezuelan economy is in ruins (maybe only in Syria and Somaly situation is worse)
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WMS
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« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2017, 04:31:58 PM »

What is Maduro's goal? Looks like he and top allies are in Kim Jong-un mode. It's clear that he isn't going to win next presidential election, even if oil prices will rise, Venezuelan economy is in ruins (maybe only in Syria and Somaly situation is worse)
I think your second sentence pretty much sums it up. Power At All Costs. They might even think they're doing it for some noble reason, although how anyone actually still thinks this by now is a mystery to me. Undecided
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Hnv1
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« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2017, 04:45:13 PM »

From a purely comparative law perspective I wish I could read the court ruling. Evoking the legislatures right to create norms...that's a new one to me. Is there anyway to find a translation of the ruling to English? Might try writing something about the court reasoning if I could and whether our local courts could something similar, but I need to read it first
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2017, 05:03:55 PM »

You can't trust a man who dresses like this...

Oh wait, the opposition does that too

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DK_Mo82
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« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2017, 06:33:20 PM »

Overdrammatic title.  They will vote Maduro out in 2018 if the election is anything close to fair.

 They have not yet held an unfair election.  Not to say they won't.
...Seriously?! Shocked That is so far from reality I can't even get snarky about it...

Yes they are so good at rigging elections that the ruling party got decimated in the legislative elections in 2015 and Chavez himself lost a constitutional refendum.  Venezuela has held free elections since 1998, period, all international observers have agreed.
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Dereich
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« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2017, 06:38:47 PM »

Overdrammatic title.  They will vote Maduro out in 2018 if the election is anything close to fair.

 They have not yet held an unfair election.  Not to say they won't.
...Seriously?! Shocked That is so far from reality I can't even get snarky about it...

Yes they are so good at rigging elections that the ruling party got decimated in the legislative elections in 2015 and Chavez himself lost a constitutional refendum.  Venezuela has held free elections since 1998, period, all international observers have agreed.

The fact that the regime has now essentially nullified the 2015 results by removing all of the legislature's power is a big sign that they're now unwilling to accept any concession of power and that they are likely to do the same in the future. If they weren't willing to give up legislative power today, what would make them likely to give up presidential power tomorrow?
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DK_Mo82
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« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2017, 06:50:03 PM »

Overdrammatic title.  They will vote Maduro out in 2018 if the election is anything close to fair.

 They have not yet held an unfair election.  Not to say they won't.
...Seriously?! Shocked That is so far from reality I can't even get snarky about it...

Yes they are so good at rigging elections that the ruling party got decimated in the legislative elections in 2015 and Chavez himself lost a constitutional refendum.  Venezuela has held free elections since 1998, period, all international observers have agreed.

The fact that the regime has now essentially nullified the 2015 results by removing all of the legislature's power is a big sign that they're now unwilling to accept any concession of power and that they are likely to do the same in the future. If they weren't willing to give up legislative power today, what would make them likely to give up presidential power tomorrow?

I do not know what they are going to do in 2018, my best guess is they lack the power to conduct a successful fake re-election of Maduro, who will lose by 65/35 or more in a fair vote. If they try to pull off the judicial coup the presidency as they have with the legislature the regime would not last much longer, though many people would die. For now there is no reason not to coup out the legislature, it is not like Maduro has any support left to alienate.
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H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY
Alfred F. Jones
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« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2017, 04:12:55 AM »

Looks like Maduro is attempting to calm things down by condemning the judiciary.
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Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy
Alex
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2017, 05:52:19 AM »

Maduro has told the Court to review their sentence
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Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy
Alex
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2017, 12:28:13 PM »
« Edited: April 01, 2017, 05:21:37 PM by Alex »

The Assembly's powers have been restored by the Court (maybe)
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Skye
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« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2017, 07:10:48 PM »

The Assembly's powers have been restored by the Court (maybe)

lol no. The sentence was just reverted, but it had just been a formality. The Assembly has been without real powers since the opposition took office in January.

Overdrammatic title.  They will vote Maduro out in 2018 if the election is anything close to fair.

 They have not yet held an unfair election.  Not to say they won't.
...Seriously?! Shocked That is so far from reality I can't even get snarky about it...

Yes they are so good at rigging elections that the ruling party got decimated in the legislative elections in 2015 and Chavez himself lost a constitutional refendum.  Venezuela has held free elections since 1998, period, all international observers have agreed.

The vote rigging isn't what you imagine. It's not done everywhere, but in select voting centers where opposition witnesses are kicked out or barred from entering. And that's not the only way of getting more votes.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2017, 11:22:41 AM »

There's a high risk, I think, of seeing a DRC-style glissement, with the Supreme Court being as compliant as it is. Elections would be postponed until convenient.
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2017, 11:43:09 AM »

Man, it almost seems like Latin America is getting sucked into another wave of coups and self-coups, all conveniently masked as legitimate developments.
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WMS
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2017, 02:34:54 PM »

Well, Maduro took a half-step back...he still got the power to unilaterally enter into joint-venture business investments and oil projects with foreign partners, deals that are supposed to require lawmakers’ approval. So under the surface, still a power grab.

And there has been yet more violent suppression of protesters, part of a long trend...

This isn't over yet, sad to say.
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