The Two "Far-Rights" (and why they oppose each other)
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  The Two "Far-Rights" (and why they oppose each other)
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Person Man
Angry_Weasel
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« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2017, 07:28:20 PM »

I think the differences between the two are vastly overstated. When push comes to shove, they'll always band together to screw over regular Americans.

Yeah, this. The Christofascist and Strasserite wings of the GOP are firmly united when it all comes down to it.
Strasserites were basically Stalinists whom Hitler eventually killed off.

Well, there are Dominionists, Strasserites, and then actual Fascists. The thing is that they overlap 80-90% of the time and that to get elected a pure Fascist like Trump, a pure Strasserite like Giuliani or even Mc Cain or even a dominionist like Cruz, Palin or even W will have to take on the other two hats and especially to get reelected, they have to deal with things like 9/11 and Russia's shenanigans in Syria.

Maybe a primary motivation can be discerned by nitpicked, but not actual policy.

You can probably also say this by about Democrats. Many people voted for Obama in 2008 thinking that he was more of a pure Liberal than a Social Democrat and yet because of the Foreclosures and the run on the banks, Obamacare, Progressive Taxation, and the Stimulus became bigger issues than Iraq, the Gays, The SCOTUS, or Civil Rights though these issues would only become important when he was a lame duck and people looked for the Right for leadership by then.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2017, 10:15:24 PM »

I think the differences between the two are vastly overstated. When push comes to shove, they'll always band together to screw over regular Americans.

Yeah, this. The Christofascist and Strasserite wings of the GOP are firmly united when it all comes down to it.
Strasserites were basically Stalinists whom Hitler eventually killed off.

Well, there are Dominionists, Strasserites, and then actual Fascists. The thing is that they overlap 80-90% of the time and that to get elected a pure Fascist like Trump, a pure Strasserite like Giuliani or even Mc Cain or even a dominionist like Cruz, Palin or even W will have to take on the other two hats and especially to get reelected, they have to deal with things like 9/11 and Russia's shenanigans in Syria.

Maybe a primary motivation can be discerned by nitpicked, but not actual policy.

You can probably also say this by about Democrats. Many people voted for Obama in 2008 thinking that he was more of a pure Liberal than a Social Democrat and yet because of the Foreclosures and the run on the banks, Obamacare, Progressive Taxation, and the Stimulus became bigger issues than Iraq, the Gays, The SCOTUS, or Civil Rights though these issues would only become important when he was a lame duck and people looked for the Right for leadership by then.

... You actually believe McCain and Giuliani are Strasserites?
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catographer
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« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2017, 02:18:50 PM »

Ann Coulter, Steve Bannon, and Breitbart are all "explicitly racist," they just don't admit it. The bar for being racist isn't whether you self-identify as racist.
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Person Man
Angry_Weasel
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« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2017, 07:38:48 PM »

I think the differences between the two are vastly overstated. When push comes to shove, they'll always band together to screw over regular Americans.

Yeah, this. The Christofascist and Strasserite wings of the GOP are firmly united when it all comes down to it.
Strasserites were basically Stalinists whom Hitler eventually killed off.

Well, there are Dominionists, Strasserites, and then actual Fascists. The thing is that they overlap 80-90% of the time and that to get elected a pure Fascist like Trump, a pure Strasserite like Giuliani or even Mc Cain or even a dominionist like Cruz, Palin or even W will have to take on the other two hats and especially to get reelected, they have to deal with things like 9/11 and Russia's shenanigans in Syria.

Maybe a primary motivation can be discerned by nitpicked, but not actual policy.

You can probably also say this by about Democrats. Many people voted for Obama in 2008 thinking that he was more of a pure Liberal than a Social Democrat and yet because of the Foreclosures and the run on the banks, Obamacare, Progressive Taxation, and the Stimulus became bigger issues than Iraq, the Gays, The SCOTUS, or Civil Rights though these issues would only become important when he was a lame duck and people looked for the Right for leadership by then.

... You actually believe McCain and Giuliani are Strasserites?

Are you talking Leo Straus?
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Person Man
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« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2017, 08:15:40 AM »

Ann Coulter, Steve Bannon, and Breitbart are all "explicitly racist," they just don't admit it. The bar for being racist isn't whether you self-identify as racist.
It's racist to "out" a racist before they are ready to come out as a racist.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2017, 04:02:43 PM »

I think the differences between the two are vastly overstated. When push comes to shove, they'll always band together to screw over regular Americans.

Yeah, this. The Christofascist and Strasserite wings of the GOP are firmly united when it all comes down to it.
Strasserites were basically Stalinists whom Hitler eventually killed off.

Well, there are Dominionists, Strasserites, and then actual Fascists. The thing is that they overlap 80-90% of the time and that to get elected a pure Fascist like Trump, a pure Strasserite like Giuliani or even Mc Cain or even a dominionist like Cruz, Palin or even W will have to take on the other two hats and especially to get reelected, they have to deal with things like 9/11 and Russia's shenanigans in Syria.

Maybe a primary motivation can be discerned by nitpicked, but not actual policy.

You can probably also say this by about Democrats. Many people voted for Obama in 2008 thinking that he was more of a pure Liberal than a Social Democrat and yet because of the Foreclosures and the run on the banks, Obamacare, Progressive Taxation, and the Stimulus became bigger issues than Iraq, the Gays, The SCOTUS, or Civil Rights though these issues would only become important when he was a lame duck and people looked for the Right for leadership by then.

... You actually believe McCain and Giuliani are Strasserites?

Are you talking Leo Straus?

If you don't know who Gregor and Otto Strasser are, you don't understand Strasserism. If you believe Trump is a fascist, you are an unbearable, obnoxious fool. If you believe Ted Cruz is a Dominionist, you are a simplistic hack.
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Person Man
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« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2017, 06:26:21 PM »
« Edited: April 18, 2017, 06:29:11 PM by Special Boy »

I think the differences between the two are vastly overstated. When push comes to shove, they'll always band together to screw over regular Americans.

Yeah, this. The Christofascist and Strasserite wings of the GOP are firmly united when it all comes down to it.
Strasserites were basically Stalinists whom Hitler eventually killed off.

Well, there are Dominionists, Strasserites, and then actual Fascists. The thing is that they overlap 80-90% of the time and that to get elected a pure Fascist like Trump, a pure Strasserite like Giuliani or even Mc Cain or even a dominionist like Cruz, Palin or even W will have to take on the other two hats and especially to get reelected, they have to deal with things like 9/11 and Russia's shenanigans in Syria.

Maybe a primary motivation can be discerned by nitpicked, but not actual policy.

You can probably also say this by about Democrats. Many people voted for Obama in 2008 thinking that he was more of a pure Liberal than a Social Democrat and yet because of the Foreclosures and the run on the banks, Obamacare, Progressive Taxation, and the Stimulus became bigger issues than Iraq, the Gays, The SCOTUS, or Civil Rights though these issues would only become important when he was a lame duck and people looked for the Right for leadership by then.

... You actually believe McCain and Giuliani are Strasserites?

Are you talking Leo Straus?

If you don't know who Gregor and Otto Strasser are, you don't understand Strasserism. If you believe Trump is a fascist, you are an unbearable, obnoxious fool. If you believe Ted Cruz is a Dominionist, you are a simplistic hack.
Definitely a Nationalist, though. Who would be considered a "fascist" anyways? If Cruz or even Michelle Bachmann isn't a dominionist, I don't want to meet who be...

I think you are throwing insults threw an Overton Window..which is a great way to move the needle...but not this way.

If anything, I thought we were referring to neoconservatism Strausism not anti-capitalist anti-semitism.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2017, 05:05:43 PM »

Very disingenuous of you to use the term "Strasserites" then, while also talking about fascists.
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tschandler
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« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2017, 01:06:51 AM »
« Edited: May 27, 2017, 01:29:39 AM by tschandler »

Since I fit in neither camp, I must assume I am a "moderate".  Haha

For reference I am a 30 year old white male.  I live in the rural south.   I work in the Flexographic Printing industry.  I am a practicing Southern Baptist.  I favor lower taxes, sound money, less regulation on business, looser gun laws, and marijuana legalization.  I am moderately pro life and it doesn't bother me if gay couples get married.  
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darklordoftech
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« Reply #34 on: May 29, 2017, 04:37:11 PM »

Peter Beinart has written some great pieces in the past year and a half or so on the split between traditional Republican orthodoxy and “Trump-ism”.  His latest one is probably the best, and it’s about how white rural voters have become more secular over the last few decades, but that rather than this causing the culture wars to diminish, they’re now simply fought over different issues:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/04/breaking-faith/517785/

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But Beinart has some other good pieces on Trump-ism and “American exceptionalism”, and how Trump’s Jacksonian wing of the GOP has a much dimmer view of the Muslim world than the “neocon” foreign policy wing, and how that connects Trump’s views on foreign policy to his views on immigration, etc.:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/donald-trumps-formula-for-success-in-foreign-policy/417456/
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/07/do-republicans-still-think-america-is-exceptional/492356/
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/02/how-trump-wants-to-make-america-exceptional-again/515406/
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/02/for-trump-we-have-a-lot-of-killers-isnt-a-criticism/515748/

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The religiousness of white rural voters and the culture wars over religious issues had three causes: The Cold War, the Warren Court and Roe v. Wade, and the upheaval of the 1960s. Now that the Cold War is over and people who want to go back to 1950s America are dying off, religion has become less important.
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Idaho Conservative
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« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2017, 12:05:08 AM »

Yes there are the pence social conservatives and the trump nationalists.  However, few of the said nationalists oppose religious freedom, support gay marriage, or support abortion.  Just like in any party there are factions.  I would say the dems have that issue with the far left and more moderate wings as well as the socially conservative minorities.
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The Self
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« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2017, 12:18:33 AM »

Yes there are the pence social conservatives and the trump nationalists.  However, few of the said nationalists oppose religious freedom, support gay marriage, or support abortion.  Just like in any party there are factions.  I would say the dems have that issue with the far left and more moderate wings as well as the socially conservative minorities.

And where are the libertarians in your little system?
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Phony Moderate
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« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2017, 07:28:43 AM »

You know, outside of America, the term 'far-right' only really refers to out and out neo-Nazis and the term 'far-left' to out and out communists.

In America they seem to be applied to political figures that are very much part of the mainstream (even if they are on the very edges of it).
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The Chill Moderate Republican
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« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2017, 11:35:44 AM »

So your saying that the two most extreme ends of the republican party are the nationalists such as the alt right and the religious/political purists at the other end.
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Zinneke
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« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2017, 12:25:59 PM »

You know, outside of America, the term 'far-right' only really refers to out and out neo-Nazis and the term 'far-left' to out and out communists.

there are plenty of far right politicians who you simply cannot associate with Adolf Hitler worship, the chief among them in places like Spain, The Netherlands, France and Israel where people vote for far right parties with no intention of Nazi Germany rehabilitation. Even the Italian Social Movement try to rehabilitate Mussolini's fascism by opposing it to the barbarity of national socialism. You're playing a dangerous game if you think far right = neo-Nazi.

How did this debate turn into a debate about Strasserism
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Idaho Conservative
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« Reply #40 on: September 26, 2017, 11:28:15 PM »

Yes there are the pence social conservatives and the trump nationalists.  However, few of the said nationalists oppose religious freedom, support gay marriage, or support abortion.  Just like in any party there are factions.  I would say the dems have that issue with the far left and more moderate wings as well as the socially conservative minorities.

And where are the libertarians in your little system?
I am a libertarian conservative and I guess libertarianism would be the 3rd kind of far right.  However when I think of far right, I think of some type of authoritarianism but libertarians differ from the far right on this.
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vanguard96
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« Reply #41 on: October 11, 2017, 01:54:06 PM »

Since I fit in neither camp, I must assume I am a "moderate".  Haha

For reference I am a 30 year old white male.  I live in the rural south.   I work in the Flexographic Printing industry.  I am a practicing Southern Baptist.  I favor lower taxes, sound money, less regulation on business, looser gun laws, and marijuana legalization.  I am moderately pro life and it doesn't bother me if gay couples get married.  

Though if you ask certain people based on following the 'Blood and Soil' Mises Institute, agreeing with forcible removal (taken completely out of context and neglecting to mention it would be in a hypothetical voluntary covenant situation), or agreeing with public figures who refuse to sign a pledge to 'resist fascism' you and I may be one step away from outright fascism according to people in our own party - moderate RINO Bill Weld supporter types and libertarian socialists mostly -  for not disowning far-right libertarians like Hans Hermann Hoppe, Tom Woods, Lew Rockwell, Jeff Deist, and even Ron Paul.

I personally don't find someone peddling influence with key corporations and industries as strictly 'free market' individual - more corporatist. As what they are doing is a form of 'bourgeois socialism' as a political philosopher called the public private dance. It is a part of the game, every corporation has to have their person in Washington and the state capitals.

Establishment 'free market/corporatists' of the top group of the two 'far right categories the OP mention play it just as much as the corporate dems and the 'compassionate conservatives' of the Kasich / Snyder mold despite occasional plays to the spirit of Milton Friedman or FA Hayek a Mike Lee or Ted Cruz will make with a relatively risk-free bill or speech from time to time.

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Zinneke
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« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2017, 09:02:54 AM »

Question, if this characterisation is true : which one would you guys say the rural populist America in the South and Midwest would prefer?
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FEMA Camp Administrator
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« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2017, 10:19:00 PM »

Since I fit in neither camp, I must assume I am a "moderate".  Haha

For reference I am a 30 year old white male.  I live in the rural south.   I work in the Flexographic Printing industry.  I am a practicing Southern Baptist.  I favor lower taxes, sound money, less regulation on business, looser gun laws, and marijuana legalization.  I am moderately pro life and it doesn't bother me if gay couples get married.  

Though if you ask certain people based on following the 'Blood and Soil' Mises Institute, agreeing with forcible removal (taken completely out of context and neglecting to mention it would be in a hypothetical voluntary covenant situation), or agreeing with public figures who refuse to sign a pledge to 'resist fascism' you and I may be one step away from outright fascism according to people in our own party - moderate RINO Bill Weld supporter types and libertarian socialists mostly -  for not disowning far-right libertarians like Hans Hermann Hoppe, Tom Woods, Lew Rockwell, Jeff Deist, and even Ron Paul.

I personally don't find someone peddling influence with key corporations and industries as strictly 'free market' individual - more corporatist. As what they are doing is a form of 'bourgeois socialism' as a political philosopher called the public private dance. It is a part of the game, every corporation has to have their person in Washington and the state capitals.

Establishment 'free market/corporatists' of the top group of the two 'far right categories the OP mention play it just as much as the corporate dems and the 'compassionate conservatives' of the Kasich / Snyder mold despite occasional plays to the spirit of Milton Friedman or FA Hayek a Mike Lee or Ted Cruz will make with a relatively risk-free bill or speech from time to time.



I don't know if anything in this entire post was a complete sentence.
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Person Man
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« Reply #44 on: October 17, 2017, 07:26:37 AM »

Question, if this characterisation is true : which one would you guys say the rural populist America in the South and Midwest would prefer?
My guess based on "reasons"

Blue- The Racists
Red- The Theocrats

http://www.270towin.com/maps/Ag89m
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vanguard96
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« Reply #45 on: October 18, 2017, 11:41:44 AM »

Since I fit in neither camp, I must assume I am a "moderate".  Haha

For reference I am a 30 year old white male.  I live in the rural south.   I work in the Flexographic Printing industry.  I am a practicing Southern Baptist.  I favor lower taxes, sound money, less regulation on business, looser gun laws, and marijuana legalization.  I am moderately pro life and it doesn't bother me if gay couples get married.  

Though if you ask certain people based on following the 'Blood and Soil' Mises Institute, agreeing with forcible removal (taken completely out of context and neglecting to mention it would be in a hypothetical voluntary covenant situation), or agreeing with public figures who refuse to sign a pledge to 'resist fascism' you and I may be one step away from outright fascism according to people in our own party - moderate RINO Bill Weld supporter types and libertarian socialists mostly -  for not disowning far-right libertarians like Hans Hermann Hoppe, Tom Woods, Lew Rockwell, Jeff Deist, and even Ron Paul.

I personally don't find someone peddling influence with key corporations and industries as strictly 'free market' individual - more corporatist. As what they are doing is a form of 'bourgeois socialism' as a political philosopher called the public private dance. It is a part of the game, every corporation has to have their person in Washington and the state capitals.

Establishment 'free market/corporatists' of the top group of the two 'far right categories the OP mention play it just as much as the corporate dems and the 'compassionate conservatives' of the Kasich / Snyder mold despite occasional plays to the spirit of Milton Friedman or FA Hayek a Mike Lee or Ted Cruz will make with a relatively risk-free bill or speech from time to time.



I don't know if anything in this entire post was a complete sentence.

It was not written to you, dude.
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Pennsylvania Deplorable
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« Reply #46 on: November 22, 2017, 07:47:36 PM »
« Edited: November 22, 2017, 11:00:36 PM by Pennsylvania Deplorable »

The conservative movement is not built around social issues. It just uses abortion to get evangelicals to back its pro-corporation neoliberal economic agenda. To ignore the fact that free markets have been the main obsession of the GOP for decades seems pretty off the mark. Of course, the whole idea behind this post seems odd because of the many millions who would be lumped into the label of "far right" by it. Generally, far-right and far-left should refer to only fringe views. If America first is a fringe view, then America is in trouble. There's also more in common between these groups than just Obamacare and transgenderism. More a difference of priorities than outright disagreement usually.

P.S. You can't preserve culture whilst transforming demographics.
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darklordoftech
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« Reply #47 on: November 23, 2017, 12:03:29 AM »

The OP seems to describe the difference between neoconservatism (Reagan/the Bushes) and paleoconservatism (Pat Buchanan/Steve Bannon/Trump).
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