The TrumpCare comes back from the dead (...and lives!) thread

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

It just makes me sick looking at how well other healthcare systems work. You can get a hip replacement with practically no cost in countries like Canada and the UK and the Republicans are here trying to make things worse and to save billionaires a couple extra bucks.

Cause Republicans never gave a damn about people at all, they only care about those with fat pockets and their special interests. They'd rather go to the pre-ACA status quo where insurers could cap your coverage, and where they can charge you through the roof or even deny you coverage for pre-existing conditions.

These Republicans don't actually understand that the ACA IS the conservative plan they wanted to push many years ago, but when it was done by Obama....nope can never be supported.


Now, don't get me wrong, the Democrats aren't much better, there is a much better health-care system in single-payer or something similar.

[The_Doctor]

TD, this has been boggling my mind for a while so why not ask here.  Why is that you dislike Medicare and Social Security but support Obamacare?

Well, I don't support ObamaCare, if you read my post here. I've edited it a bit about Medicare to make my position clearer on healthcare. But I'll get back to that.  

To start with, I don't like the New Deal; I think it was an overreaction to the Great Depression, where the Federal Reserve would have done just fine had they turned on the money spigot. That said, I think the New Deal created a dependency culture that expects people to be taken care of by government no matter what. I think that Social Security went from being an old age program to a catchall program that takes in a lot of people at unsustainable rates. Ultimately, I don't find it sustainable without higher taxes. With Medicare, same type of objections (although my plan would cover everyone and be a replacement for Medicare/Medicaid). That said, I wouldn't vote to repeal either because the instability caused by the loss of these programs would be immense and economically disastrous. If ever down the line, we can figure out how to repeal it in favor of a more libertarian set of ideas (thanks to technology or whatnot), that'd be something I'd like to explore if the disruption is minimal.

As far as ObamaCare goes, I don't support it (I think it was too cumbersome, unnecessarily so, and I didn't like some of the regulations that required companies to give healthcare if you worked over 30 hours, and whatnot). It's a little better than the New Deal, which were straight up cash and benefits programs, so I'm not as hostile. Also, healthcare is much bigger than retirement and there we have to help sick people who would otherwise die if we don't help them, so I'm more sympathetic on healthcare. But I didn't support the law when it was enacted and would prefer to repeal it in favor of a better law.

That said, I don't support this bill, because it abruptly pulls out the plug on those who gained Medicaid access and disrupts tons of healthcare plans that were designed with the ACA in mind. Any unwinding at this point should have been over ten years, and done with an eye to keeping markets stable as we transitioned to a better plan. The GOP plan, in my eyes, isn't that replacement. They rushed the plan, they didn't find the spot between good policy and good politics, and didn't even wait for a CBO score. Their political posturing has led to this (and admittedly, I was on the ObamaCare repeal bandwagon for many years without thinking about what would come after; which is why I raised the point of asking people to defend this law). We'll see if the Senate crafts anything worthwhile.

Hopefully that makes sense.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

TD, this has been boggling my mind for a while so why not ask here.  Why is that you dislike Medicare and Social Security but support Obamacare?

snip

Hopefully that makes sense.

Well my own opinions obviously differ greatly and it's certainly not usual for one to have a more favorable opinion of Obamacare than they do of the New Deal, especially since that Obamacare in essence obviously expands on some New Deal programs (although Obamacare itself was not created with the same kind of thinking that led to the New Deal in the first place), but I suppose the logic is sound.  You agree that pursuing anything solely in pursuit of one's ideology or vision of what "should be" is bad practice and I respect that a lot.

Thanks for explaining.

[Hammy]

Wow Senate is already drawing up it's own bill http://www.mediaite.com/online/senate-reportedly-wont-even-vote-on-house-health-care-bill-will-write-their-own/

Does that pretty much mean the House version is DOA?

[Roronoa D. Law]

It just makes me sick looking at how well other healthcare systems work. You can get a hip replacement with practically no cost in countries like Canada and the UK and the Republicans are here trying to make things worse and to save billionaires a couple extra bucks.

US has a large amount of welfare chauvinism than UK or Canada. I do think Republican are partly responsible for associating African Americans with entitlements.

[Cory]

Some somebody break it down for me how the GOP in the Senate could pass healthcare reform via reconciliation? I thought it could only be used for budget issues explicitly? Not outright changes in the law.

Thanks in advance.

[Hermit For Peace]

They're so proud that they actually did something. Too bad it would hurt a lot of people in the process if implemented, but hey, the GOP did something instead of block block block and say no. And they are so proud of themselves.

[Hermit For Peace]

Here's my question. Don't these people have family members who have pre-existing conditions? Don't they have elder parents with health problems? Don't they know people personally who would be affected by their poor decisions and voting record in Congress?

It's just blatant disregard for what's good and right in society.

Better watch out because karma is a bit*h.

[Blue3]

lol, Trump just said this bill is great, the Senate will make it even better, and Australia's healthcare is even better than the GOP bill they have!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Obama-Biden Democrat]

Here's my question. Don't these people have family members who have pre-existing conditions? Don't they have elder parents with health problems? Don't they know people personally who would be affected by their poor decisions and voting record in Congress?

It's just blatant disregard for what's good and right in society.

Better watch out because karma is a bit*h.

Every Republican in the House is making a few hundred thousand  a year, and some are millionaires from their previous careers. That is plenty of money for those evil people to be able to support their family members, while testing out their dark dystopian Randian theories out on the poor. Bad!

[Cory]

Some somebody break it down for me how the GOP in the Senate could pass healthcare reform via reconciliation? I thought it could only be used for budget issues explicitly? Not outright changes in the law.

Thanks in advance.

Anyone?

[Hammy]

lol, Trump just said this bill is great, the Senate will make it even better, and Australia's healthcare is even better than the GOP bill they have!!!!!!!!!!!!

Isn't Australia single-payer?

[Indy Texas]

TD, this has been boggling my mind for a while so why not ask here.  Why is that you dislike Medicare and Social Security but support Obamacare?

Well, I don't support ObamaCare, if you read my post here. I've edited it a bit about Medicare to make my position clearer on healthcare. But I'll get back to that.  

To start with, I don't like the New Deal; I think it was an overreaction to the Great Depression, where the Federal Reserve would have done just fine had they turned on the money spigot. That said, I think the New Deal created a dependency culture that expects people to be taken care of by government no matter what. I think that Social Security went from being an old age program to a catchall program that takes in a lot of people at unsustainable rates. Ultimately, I don't find it sustainable without higher taxes. With Medicare, same type of objections (although my plan would cover everyone and be a replacement for Medicare/Medicaid). That said, I wouldn't vote to repeal either because the instability caused by the loss of these programs would be immense and economically disastrous. If ever down the line, we can figure out how to repeal it in favor of a more libertarian set of ideas (thanks to technology or whatnot), that'd be something I'd like to explore if the disruption is minimal.

As far as ObamaCare goes, I don't support it (I think it was too cumbersome, unnecessarily so, and I didn't like some of the regulations that required companies to give healthcare if you worked over 30 hours, and whatnot). It's a little better than the New Deal, which were straight up cash and benefits programs, so I'm not as hostile. Also, healthcare is much bigger than retirement and there we have to help sick people who would otherwise die if we don't help them, so I'm more sympathetic on healthcare. But I didn't support the law when it was enacted and would prefer to repeal it in favor of a better law.

That said, I don't support this bill, because it abruptly pulls out the plug on those who gained Medicaid access and disrupts tons of healthcare plans that were designed with the ACA in mind. Any unwinding at this point should have been over ten years, and done with an eye to keeping markets stable as we transitioned to a better plan. The GOP plan, in my eyes, isn't that replacement. They rushed the plan, they didn't find the spot between good policy and good politics, and didn't even wait for a CBO score. Their political posturing has led to this (and admittedly, I was on the ObamaCare repeal bandwagon for many years without thinking about what would come after; which is why I raised the point of asking people to defend this law). We'll see if the Senate crafts anything worthwhile.

Hopefully that makes sense.

Before SS and Medicare, the percentage of elderly people in poverty was astronomical. If your adult kids couldn't afford to support you, you were up a creek. Living with adult children stopped being a realistic approach when we transitioned away from an agrarian society.

People weren't living healthy, independent lives before the New Deal. They were dying poor, broke, sick and alone.

[Blue3]

lol, Trump just said this bill is great, the Senate will make it even better, and Australia's healthcare is even better than the GOP bill they have!!!!!!!!!!!!

Isn't Australia single-payer?

Yeah, or something close to it.

[GeorgiaModerate]

lol, Trump just said this bill is great, the Senate will make it even better, and Australia's healthcare is even better than the GOP bill they have!!!!!!!!!!!!

Isn't Australia single-payer?

Yeah, or something close to it.

They do have single-payer (called Medicare, amusingly enough) that coexists with private insurance that can be used to help cover out-of-pocket costs not covered by Medicare.

[The_Doctor]

Before SS and Medicare, the percentage of elderly people in poverty was astronomical. If your adult kids couldn't afford to support you, you were up a creek. Living with adult children stopped being a realistic approach when we transitioned away from an agrarian society.

People weren't living healthy, independent lives before the New Deal. They were dying poor, broke, sick and alone.

That is all true but we've changed radically since the 1930s. People are living longer, our living standards have gone up (some would argue that's because of the New Deal but I don't know I agree), and there's abundant new technology to allow our seniors to live better lives.

So, why can't we shift to a system where we allow people to save more for retirement and bring a decent market based healthcare system to help deal with senior health issues?

At the very least Social Security and Medicare should go back to being for the aged and truly disabled, rather than the expansive government programs they are. Essentially we already have a single payer program named Medicare and Medicaid in this country.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

It was never going to be voted on this week, and anyone who said it would be was being silly. The House will pass it next week or the week after. The Senate is the real battlefield.

I will now accept my accolades.

[MasterJedi]

They're not even trying to hide it, on Occupy Democrats Logic they're gleeful that people wouldn't be able to afford insurance with this bill. The government providing any type of health insurance to them is "slavery". Jokes on most of them if it passes and all the pills they need to pop to stay alive won't be covered. Also note how erective dysfunction is not one of the pre-existing conditions.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

This bill allows companies to gut their employee insurance plans, bring back lifetime limits.

Bringing back lifetime limits barely affects premiums and essentially forces people with catastrophic medical bills into bankruptcy.

WTF are they thinking? Who wanted this?

Bankruptcy lawyers?

[Beet]

They're not even trying to hide it, on Occupy Democrats Logic they're gleeful that people wouldn't be able to afford insurance with this bill. The government providing any type of health insurance to them is "slavery". Jokes on most of them if it passes and all the pills they need to pop to stay alive won't be covered. Also note how erective dysfunction is not one of the pre-existing conditions.

They're getting some pushback on their page which is all one can hope for I guess.

[Xing]

Fortunately, this disgusting thing has no chance of passing in the Senate. It's sickening how many Republicans in Congress are happy to take millions off of health insurance just to get one last laugh at Obama and the Democrats. The priorities of Congress are fundamentally flawed to the point where our government isn't even working for us anymore. I know that there was always an element of partisanship, and that Obama didn't help with the polarization of this country, but this has really gone too far.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Fortunately, this disgusting thing has no chance of passing in the Senate. It's sickening how many Republicans in Congress are happy to take millions off of health insurance just to get one last laugh at Obama and the Democrats. The priorities of Congress are fundamentally flawed to the point where our government isn't even working for us anymore. I know that there was always an element of partisanship, and that Obama didn't help with the polarization of this country, but this has really gone too far.

The problem isn't partisanship, the problem is that one party thinks it can get away with anything because its voters are "locked in".

May they be proven wrong in 2018.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Some somebody break it down for me how the GOP in the Senate could pass healthcare reform via reconciliation? I thought it could only be used for budget issues explicitly? Not outright changes in the law.

Thanks in advance.

Anyone?

What the House passed was written so as to only consist of stuff that would be considered "budgetary" in nature.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

So, why can't we shift to a system where we allow people to save more for retirement and bring a decent market based healthcare system to help deal with senior health issues?

How do people who live paycheck to paycheck put money aside for retirement?

[Cory]

What the House passed was written so as to only consist of stuff that would be considered "budgetary" in nature.

Okay. Thanks.

So in theory the GOP could unilaterally repeal the ACA with 51 votes?

r/WellThatSucks