Gnosticism, or mainstream Catholic/Orthodox/Anglican/Protestant Christianity?
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  Gnosticism, or mainstream Catholic/Orthodox/Anglican/Protestant Christianity?
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Question: Which do you: like better / identify with better / feel rings more "true" / seems more compassionate?
#1
Gnosticism
 
#2
mainstream Catholic/Orthodox/Anglican/Protestant Christianity
 
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Author Topic: Gnosticism, or mainstream Catholic/Orthodox/Anglican/Protestant Christianity?  (Read 4007 times)
Blue3
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« on: April 16, 2017, 05:33:46 PM »

Which do you: like better / identify with better / feel rings more "true" / seems more compassionate?

And why?
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2017, 07:54:38 PM »

Option 2, because I'm not Greatest I Am.
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Blue3
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« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2017, 09:00:00 PM »

Yeah.


Gnosticism was "cool" for like a year or two after the Da Vinci Code came out, and it was interesting to discover this old strange offshoot. But there's really not much there, and very pretentious and arrogant, with many Gnostics thinking they're being deep and so enlightened when really everyone else sees them as shallow. They can be like the emo teen going on about how "no one knows what it feels like" when everyone does.
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Mr. Reactionary
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« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2017, 09:12:38 PM »

Yeah.


Gnosticism was "cool" for like a year or two after the Da Vinci Code came out, and it was interesting to discover this old strange offshoot. But there's really not much there, and very pretentious and arrogant, with many Gnostics thinking they're being deep and so enlightened when really everyone else sees them as shallow. They can be like the emo teen going on about how "no one knows what it feels like" when everyone does.

I'm glad they preserved the gospel of Thomas for us, but their neoplatonic-lite cosmology is kind of dumb.
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Nathan
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« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2017, 09:47:19 PM »

Not the one based on special esoteric knowledge for a secretive elite few.
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RFayette
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« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2017, 11:53:42 PM »

The second, but Protestant Christianity = mega, mega FF in particular
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2017, 01:27:43 AM »

The second, but Protestant Christianity = mega, mega FF in particular

Then I assume Cathcon's sig is #triggering you. Cheesy
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2017, 02:32:01 AM »

The second, but Protestant Christianity = mega, mega FF in particular

Then I assume Cathcon's sig is #triggering you. Cheesy

A little, but mainly it's that I have been trying to be his alter ego a little bit lately. Tongue.   Nothing wrong with countering a bit of Catholic supremacism with some Protestant supremacism.

Definitely not! As someone with no horse in this race (or rather conflicting loyalties - my cultural background and aesthetics are Catholic, but my philosophy is generally more consonant with Protestantism), I greatly enjoy these exchanges. Wink
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Blue3
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« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2017, 08:34:31 PM »

I guess Greatest I am has no valid defense of Gnosticism...
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Stranger in a strange land
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« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2017, 09:37:52 AM »

Not the one based on special esoteric knowledge for a secretive elite few.

BUT MUH SACRED FEMININE!
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2017, 09:54:59 AM »

The second, but Protestant Christianity = mega, mega FF in particular

Then I assume Cathcon's sig is #triggering you. Cheesy

As my religion vs. RFayette's can attest, there is a WHOLE lot of variety in that Protestantism! Smiley

Most folks at my church (ELCA) would likely feel very out of place in both Catholic and more  conservative Protestant traditions (specifically more new-agey ones).
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FEMA Camp Administrator
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« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2017, 10:52:28 AM »

Protestantism was proven to be sociologically inferior 110 years ago.

Obviously, however, most strands of extant mainstream theology are preferable to Greatest I Am's screeds.
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Zioneer
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« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2017, 11:02:50 AM »

Not the one based on special esoteric knowledge for a secretive elite few.

BUT MUH SACRED FEMININE!
Technically Mormonism has a Heavenly Mother to go along with a Heavenly Father/God the Father.

So you don't need Gnosticism for that. Tongue
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RI
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« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2017, 11:05:58 AM »

Not the one based on special esoteric knowledge for a secretive elite few.

BUT MUH SACRED FEMININE!
Technically Mormonism has a Heavenly Mother to go along with a Heavenly Father/God the Father.

So you don't need Gnosticism for that. Tongue

Mormonism is basically a superficially-Gnostic heresy.
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Zioneer
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« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2017, 11:14:54 AM »

Not the one based on special esoteric knowledge for a secretive elite few.

BUT MUH SACRED FEMININE!
Technically Mormonism has a Heavenly Mother to go along with a Heavenly Father/God the Father.

So you don't need Gnosticism for that. Tongue

Mormonism is basically a superficially-Gnostic heresy.
Not really? I mean, we don't believe that God is evil, we don't believe that flesh is evil (indeed, we celebrate mortality), while we do have "secret" ordinances in which you have to be authorized to take part in, it's theoretically open to any baptized member of the church, we definitely don't see procreation as evil, there's no such thing as the Demiurge in Mormonism, and etc.
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RI
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« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2017, 11:37:04 AM »

Not the one based on special esoteric knowledge for a secretive elite few.

BUT MUH SACRED FEMININE!
Technically Mormonism has a Heavenly Mother to go along with a Heavenly Father/God the Father.

So you don't need Gnosticism for that. Tongue

Mormonism is basically a superficially-Gnostic heresy.
Not really? I mean, we don't believe that God is evil, we don't believe that flesh is evil (indeed, we celebrate mortality), while we do have "secret" ordinances in which you have to be authorized to take part in, it's theoretically open to any baptized member of the church, we definitely don't see procreation as evil, there's no such thing as the Demiurge in Mormonism, and etc.

Well, Mormons aren't exactly Gnostic (hence the "superficially"), but they do share more than most of Christianity: the Mormon version of God is very similar to the concept of the Demiurge in that the Heavenly Father is not the highest God but only one in a long series of exalted men; Mormon exaltation is essentially a version of gnosis; the way Mormonism treats knowledge and revelation is pretty Gnostic; Mormon ideas of pre-existence have Gnostic roots, as does the idea of Jesus and Lucifer being brothers; etc. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of other heresies syncreticized into the mix (like Arianism), but the Gnosticism is pretty strong.
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Zioneer
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« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2017, 12:23:52 PM »

Not the one based on special esoteric knowledge for a secretive elite few.

BUT MUH SACRED FEMININE!
Technically Mormonism has a Heavenly Mother to go along with a Heavenly Father/God the Father.

So you don't need Gnosticism for that. Tongue

Mormonism is basically a superficially-Gnostic heresy.
Not really? I mean, we don't believe that God is evil, we don't believe that flesh is evil (indeed, we celebrate mortality), while we do have "secret" ordinances in which you have to be authorized to take part in, it's theoretically open to any baptized member of the church, we definitely don't see procreation as evil, there's no such thing as the Demiurge in Mormonism, and etc.

Well, Mormons aren't exactly Gnostic (hence the "superficially"), but they do share more than most of Christianity: the Mormon version of God is very similar to the concept of the Demiurge in that the Heavenly Father is not the highest God but only one in a long series of exalted men; Mormon exaltation is essentially a version of gnosis; the way Mormonism treats knowledge and revelation is pretty Gnostic; Mormon ideas of pre-existence have Gnostic roots, as does the idea of Jesus and Lucifer being brothers; etc. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of other heresies syncreticized into the mix (like Arianism), but the Gnosticism is pretty strong.
Technically Heavenly Father is the highest God in the sense that if there are others, we don't really care about them.

I'll give you the exaltation/gnosis issue. Pre-existence, I haven't studied gnostic views on that, though Mormons tend to brag whenever evidence of pre-existence views comes up in early Christianity. Jesus and Lucifer being brothers seems logically sound if the rest of us are spiritual siblings.

As for Arianism, how does that come into the picture? Also, dang, that's pretty impressive for a faith that originated with a fairly uneducated farmboy.
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Mopsus
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« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2017, 02:33:16 PM »

Also, dang, that's pretty impressive for a faith that originated with a fairly uneducated farmboy.

As a non-Mormon, one must assume that the Freemasons possess(ed) a far more impressive cache of esoteric knowledge than they've ever officially been given credit for. That's the only way to make it make sense.
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Zioneer
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« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2017, 10:41:32 PM »

Also, dang, that's pretty impressive for a faith that originated with a fairly uneducated farmboy.

As a non-Mormon, one must assume that the Freemasons possess(ed) a far more impressive cache of esoteric knowledge than they've ever officially been given credit for. That's the only way to make it make sense.
Joseph Smith only joined the Freemasons in 1842 or thereabouts. Most of what he was teaching was already there before any affiliation with Freemasonry. I had a timeline I found that seemed to prove that most of the teachings people think he stole from the Masons were taught months if not years before joining them. I'll see if I can find it again.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2017, 04:57:42 AM »
« Edited: April 19, 2017, 05:02:35 AM by DC Al Fine »

Not the one based on special esoteric knowledge for a secretive elite few.

BUT MUH SACRED FEMININE!
Technically Mormonism has a Heavenly Mother to go along with a Heavenly Father/God the Father.

So you don't need Gnosticism for that. Tongue

Mormonism is basically a superficially-Gnostic heresy.
Not really? I mean, we don't believe that God is evil, we don't believe that flesh is evil (indeed, we celebrate mortality), while we do have "secret" ordinances in which you have to be authorized to take part in, it's theoretically open to any baptized member of the church, we definitely don't see procreation as evil, there's no such thing as the Demiurge in Mormonism, and etc.

Well, Mormons aren't exactly Gnostic (hence the "superficially"), but they do share more than most of Christianity: the Mormon version of God is very similar to the concept of the Demiurge in that the Heavenly Father is not the highest God but only one in a long series of exalted men; Mormon exaltation is essentially a version of gnosis; the way Mormonism treats knowledge and revelation is pretty Gnostic; Mormon ideas of pre-existence have Gnostic roots, as does the idea of Jesus and Lucifer being brothers; etc. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of other heresies syncreticized into the mix (like Arianism), but the Gnosticism is pretty strong.
Technically Heavenly Father is the highest God in the sense that if there are others, we don't really care about them.

I'll give you the exaltation/gnosis issue. Pre-existence, I haven't studied gnostic views on that, though Mormons tend to brag whenever evidence of pre-existence views comes up in early Christianity. Jesus and Lucifer being brothers seems logically sound if the rest of us are spiritual siblings.

As for Arianism, how does that come into the picture? Also, dang, that's pretty impressive for a faith that originated with a fairly uneducated farmboy.

You believe Jesus is a created being, no?
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Zioneer
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« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2017, 01:57:00 PM »

Not the one based on special esoteric knowledge for a secretive elite few.

BUT MUH SACRED FEMININE!
Technically Mormonism has a Heavenly Mother to go along with a Heavenly Father/God the Father.

So you don't need Gnosticism for that. Tongue

Mormonism is basically a superficially-Gnostic heresy.
Not really? I mean, we don't believe that God is evil, we don't believe that flesh is evil (indeed, we celebrate mortality), while we do have "secret" ordinances in which you have to be authorized to take part in, it's theoretically open to any baptized member of the church, we definitely don't see procreation as evil, there's no such thing as the Demiurge in Mormonism, and etc.

Well, Mormons aren't exactly Gnostic (hence the "superficially"), but they do share more than most of Christianity: the Mormon version of God is very similar to the concept of the Demiurge in that the Heavenly Father is not the highest God but only one in a long series of exalted men; Mormon exaltation is essentially a version of gnosis; the way Mormonism treats knowledge and revelation is pretty Gnostic; Mormon ideas of pre-existence have Gnostic roots, as does the idea of Jesus and Lucifer being brothers; etc. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of other heresies syncreticized into the mix (like Arianism), but the Gnosticism is pretty strong.
Technically Heavenly Father is the highest God in the sense that if there are others, we don't really care about them.

I'll give you the exaltation/gnosis issue. Pre-existence, I haven't studied gnostic views on that, though Mormons tend to brag whenever evidence of pre-existence views comes up in early Christianity. Jesus and Lucifer being brothers seems logically sound if the rest of us are spiritual siblings.

As for Arianism, how does that come into the picture? Also, dang, that's pretty impressive for a faith that originated with a fairly uneducated farmboy.

You believe Jesus is a created being, no?
We do not. However, we believe that all human souls (sometimes called "intelligences") were unorganized matter from the beginning of the universe, and that God the Father organized them into coherent beings which we now recognize as human spirits. All other matter was organized as well. Christ was either organized from the beginning as God the Father was, or organized as human souls, but the first organized of all of them. In any case, he assisted God the Father with the Creation, which in LDS theology was more of turning pure matter into what is now the universe, rather than something out of nothing.

Which now that I think about it, kind of points to more Gnosticism in Mormonism than I thought...
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Mopsus
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« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2017, 02:09:17 PM »

Joseph Smith only joined the Freemasons in 1842 or thereabouts. Most of what he was teaching was already there before any affiliation with Freemasonry.

That's true. However, Hyrum Smith joined a Palmyra lodge in the 1820s, and several members of the Cowdery family were Masons, William (Oliver's father) becoming a Junior Warden in 1807.
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Nathan
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« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2017, 05:07:37 PM »

or organized as human souls, but the first organized of all of them. In any case, he assisted God the Father with the Creation,

This is pretty much exactly what the Arians believed (which is why "there was a time when He was not" is a misleading translation of their slogan; He does preexist Time as such, despite having been at some specific point within Eternity created by the Father).
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MyRescueKittehRocks
JohanusCalvinusLibertas
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« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2017, 07:42:12 AM »

Option 2. Protestants and Eastern Orthodox rock
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2017, 07:15:23 PM »

Option 2, because I'm not Greatest I Am.

That means that your morals are inferior as you follow a genocidal son murderer that moral people have rejected.

Thanks for the cheep shot though. You show a Christian trait that your God, Satan, would like.

Regards
DL
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