Gnosticism, or mainstream Catholic/Orthodox/Anglican/Protestant Christianity?

[Greatest I am]

Which do you: like better / identify with better / feel rings more "true" / seems more compassionate?

And why?

I chose Gnostic Christianity almost purely for moral reasons but also because the Jesus I red in the bible is showing how to free ourselves from the tyrannical Gods who just want slaved people, to a God who, like Jesus did, comes to serve man and not enslave him.

You will note that I said chose. Almost all here did not choose and just follow their daddy`s and grand daddy`s religion without noticing what a foul God Yahweh is.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Option 2, because I'm not Greatest I Am.

Yeah.


Gnosticism was "cool" for like a year or two after the Da Vinci Code came out, and it was interesting to discover this old strange offshoot. But there's really not much there, and very pretentious and arrogant, with many Gnostics thinking they're being deep and so enlightened when really everyone else sees them as shallow. They can be like the emo teen going on about how "no one knows what it feels like" when everyone does.

Arrogant!!

Not as swollen headedly arrogant as Christian who think they are so special that an God would die for them. After just condemning them that is.

That is not only arrogant it is completely ------

Insult intended to all who follow a genocidal son murdering God.

That is not arrogant, it is a fact.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

I'm glad they preserved the gospel of Thomas for us, but their neoplatonic-lite cosmology is kind of dumb.

What many do not recognize is that Gnostic Christians wrote a myth to put against the Christian myth before Christianity became a literal reading idol worshiping cult/religion of the God they usurped from the Jews who were not literalists.

Our cosmology is a myth just like the Christian one is.

Note how we were true to our core belief of being perpetual seekers, as expressed in this link.

http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Regards
DL 

[Greatest I am]

Not the one based on special esoteric knowledge for a secretive elite few.

Heavens no. A genocidal son murdering God is so much more moral. Not.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

I guess Greatest I am has no valid defense of Gnosticism...

I just found your post today.

What precept of Gnostic Christianity do you have in mind?

I do have one question before we3 begin.

Your post is driven by hate from what I can see above.

I don't mind as many posters show a lot more hate than love.

In my case, I imagine that most theists only see the attack and not the love that motivates it and only see my hate of immoral religions thanks to the fact that I do not hold back with fools and immoral thinkers which is what most Christians are.

Case in point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mJCCARjyNM

Are you a Christian? You sure love to hate like one.

Do take that the right way as expressed by this quote.

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

I weally weally love you Blue. Don't you love me?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Not the one based on special esoteric knowledge for a secretive elite few.

BUT MUH SACRED FEMININE!

Women are coming along nicely in the West but need help in the East.

They must be as western men are becoming Whinny Little Bitches.

Women, it seems to me are fed up with most Whinny Little Bitch men and their lack of honor or sense of duty.

That is likely what has led to the fact that 50% of all households in the U.S. are manned by single females. They prefer that than Whinny Little Bitches.

---------------


Just so you know, what M M said is idiocy.

All the non-idol worshiping religions in the day were called Mystery Schools but I don't think M M is well versed enough to deal with anything but a false sound bite.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Protestantism was proven to be sociologically inferior 110 years ago.

Obviously, however, most strands of extant mainstream theology are preferable to Greatest I Am's screeds.

Wow. Just Wow.

So you like the intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Do you especially like Christianity and their genocidal son murdering God or do you prefer Allah and the 72 virgins he has waiting for those foolish and stupid enough to think them waiting?

Lay on my couch and tell me why?

Also tell me what is bothering you about the Gnostic Christian religion. I am all ears.

Regards
DL

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Not the one based on special esoteric knowledge for a secretive elite few.

BUT MUH SACRED FEMININE!

Technically Mormonism has a Heavenly Mother to go along with a Heavenly Father/God the Father.

So you don't need Gnosticism for that.

True. Only a mind sick enough to picture God screwing his wife. Is nothing sacred anymore.

Then again, your God is a take off on the Abrahamic God and he is androgynous like most of the Eastern Gods so now I have to picture God somehow screwing himself.

Regards
DL


 

[Greatest I am]

Not the one based on special esoteric knowledge for a secretive elite few.

BUT MUH SACRED FEMININE!

Technically Mormonism has a Heavenly Mother to go along with a Heavenly Father/God the Father.

So you don't need Gnosticism for that.

Mormonism is basically a superficially-Gnostic heresy.

Not really. What do you see as common threads?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Not the one based on special esoteric knowledge for a secretive elite few.

BUT MUH SACRED FEMININE!

Technically Mormonism has a Heavenly Mother to go along with a Heavenly Father/God the Father.

So you don't need Gnosticism for that.

Mormonism is basically a superficially-Gnostic heresy.

Not really? I mean, we don't believe that God is evil, we don't believe that flesh is evil (indeed, we celebrate mortality), while we do have "secret" ordinances in which you have to be authorized to take part in, it's theoretically open to any baptized member of the church, we definitely don't see procreation as evil, there's no such thing as the Demiurge in Mormonism, and etc.

So many lies and or false assumptions.

We do not believe our God to be evil. We do believe that the imaginary God Yahweh is and that evilness is quite demonstrable.

We do not believe that flesh is evil as it houses the spark of God that we seek perpetually.

Gnostic rather like procreation but I sure would like to see where you got information that says otherwise. As far as I know, we have never had ascetic branches.

Of course no one has dubbed your version 2.6 of God as demiurge. The term was invented a long time before your upstart God was created by your Indian Jew or whoever liar formed your weird religion.

I hope you are better informed about your religion than you are of Gnostic Christianity.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

[. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of other heresies syncreticized into the mix (like Arianism), but the Gnosticism is pretty strong.

Mormons have a supernatural aspect to their religion. Gnostic Christianity does not.

We have not and will not allow ourselves to go into intellectual dissonance by beliefs in the supernatural.

The supernatural does not follow natural law and man has to so to even think we should be ruled by a supernatural God is foolish. His standards, not that such a God exists, could never be suitable for mankind.

Regards
DL

[they don't love you like i love you]

Neither.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

Just so you know, what M M said is idiocy.

All the non-idol worshiping religions in the day were called Mystery Schools but I don't think M M is well versed enough to deal with anything but a false sound bite.

Regards
DL

I'm aware of the religious environment of Classical Antiquity, yes; my New Testament intro class last year spent almost a month on it. I think it was an overall noxious environment in many ways, so having the options that existed at the time enumerated to me isn't going to be a good way to convince me of anything.

Regards
NT

[Mopsus]

As to the opening question... Borges's "Defense of Basilides the False" is good.

[TJ in Oregon]

IMO once you demote God from an utterly transcendent, omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent entity to a mere being among other beings, you undermine the best reasons to believe in God in the first place.

[Blue3]

IMO once you demote God from an utterly transcendent, omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent entity to a mere being among other beings, you undermine the best reasons to believe in God in the first place.

You should believe in what you think is true... not play "Make-A-God"

[TJ in Oregon]

IMO once you demote God from an utterly transcendent, omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent entity to a mere being among other beings, you undermine the best reasons to believe in God in the first place.

You should believe in what you think is true... not play "Make-A-God"

I agree. That's sort of the point. What reason is there to think a God who is a mere being actually exists?

[Blue3]

IMO once you demote God from an utterly transcendent, omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent entity to a mere being among other beings, you undermine the best reasons to believe in God in the first place.

You should believe in what you think is true... not play "Make-A-God"

I agree. That's sort of the point. What reason is there to think a God who is a mere being actually exists?

God could be incredibly powerful, knowing, etc... but not this infinite magic power/knowledge level.

Some could call the state of the universe as evidence.

But the point is, if we learn at the moment of death what God's true nature is, and it's almost exactly what you thought, but not omnipotent or omniscient... wouldn't you still follow God and call God "God"? Do you love God, or do you love power and knowledge?

[Greatest I am]

Just so you know, what M M said is idiocy.

All the non-idol worshiping religions in the day were called Mystery Schools but I don't think M M is well versed enough to deal with anything but a false sound bite.

Regards
DL

There was just two basic thinking options in those days.

God was either an undefinable mystery or he was a idol.

Here is how early intelligent people thought as compared to the idol worshipers that have now polluted Christianity and Islam which have both grown their religions by violence and force as compared to good deeds and a decent ideology.

 http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

This second link speak to the Inquisitions that idol worship created.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

Regards
DL

I'm aware of the religious environment of Classical Antiquity, yes; my New Testament intro class last year spent almost a month on it. I think it was an overall noxious environment in many ways, so having the options that existed at the time enumerated to me isn't going to be a good way to convince me of anything.

Regards
NT

[Greatest I am]

As to the opening question... Borges's "Defense of Basilides the False" is good.

I have not read that one. Why do you think it good?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

IMO once you demote God from an utterly transcendent, omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent entity to a mere being among other beings, you undermine the best reasons to believe in God in the first place.

Sure, as it should be because you have no way of knowing that the unknowable, unfathomable and mysterious God is an utterly transcendent, omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent.

Unless you have faith and faith is belief without evidence of the true knowledge that God is an utterly transcendent, omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent.

The Gods are basically tyrants. You do not get to vote in heaven for better leadership.

Why would you want to believe that there is some tyrant waiting to enslave you to it?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

IMO once you demote God from an utterly transcendent, omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent entity to a mere being among other beings, you undermine the best reasons to believe in God in the first place.

You should believe in what you think is true... not play "Make-A-God"

That playing at "Make-A-God" is what created the plethora of Christian and Muslim sects. I hear 30 odd thousand and they all claim to have the right God.

New God are born daily.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

IMO once you demote God from an utterly transcendent, omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent entity to a mere being among other beings, you undermine the best reasons to believe in God in the first place.

You should believe in what you think is true... not play "Make-A-God"

I agree. That's sort of the point. What reason is there to think a God who is a mere being actually exists?

Because, if you take all the supernatural garbage out of the equation, all you are left with is a person.

We follow natural law. Right?

Let nature guide you.

God is an ideal of whatever species you are.
Your God sets your pattern of life which is why we are told to follow his or her example.

The God of an ant, is an ant.
The God of a lion, is a lion.
The God of a man, is a man.

Regards
DL

[Kingpoleon]

IMO once you demote God from an utterly transcendent, omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent entity to a mere being among other beings, you undermine the best reasons to believe in God in the first place.

You should believe in what you think is true... not play "Make-A-God"

I agree. That's sort of the point. What reason is there to think a God who is a mere being actually exists?

God could be incredibly powerful, knowing, etc... but not this infinite magic power/knowledge level.

Some could call the state of the universe as evidence.

But the point is, if we learn at the moment of death what God's true nature is, and it's almost exactly what you thought, but not omnipotent or omniscient... wouldn't you still follow God and call God "God"? Do you love God, or do you love power and knowledge?

Many indeed are there who will call upon others to question their own beliefs - even, sometimes especially, their deepest, most profound beliefs. I tell you, few of these will question their own beliefs. For they, upon seeing the light, have decided to point it out to every other human and tell them to go. However, those who tell others this are the ones who themselves need to question their own beliefs the most. How much easier it is to speak than to act!

[Greatest I am]

IMO once you demote God from an utterly transcendent, omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent entity to a mere being among other beings, you undermine the best reasons to believe in God in the first place.

You should believe in what you think is true... not play "Make-A-God"

I agree. That's sort of the point. What reason is there to think a God who is a mere being actually exists?

God could be incredibly powerful, knowing, etc... but not this infinite magic power/knowledge level.

Some could call the state of the universe as evidence.

But the point is, if we learn at the moment of death what God's true nature is, and it's almost exactly what you thought, but not omnipotent or omniscient... wouldn't you still follow God and call God "God"? Do you love God, or do you love power and knowledge?

Many indeed are there who will call upon others to question their own beliefs - even, sometimes especially, their deepest, most profound beliefs. I tell you, few of these will question their own beliefs. For they, upon seeing the light, have decided to point it out to every other human and tell them to go. However, those who tell others this are the ones who themselves need to question their own beliefs the most. How much easier it is to speak than to act!

Questioning is good. The problem with beliefs is that most cannot be shown to be based on reality.

That is why Gnostic Christians try to speak of moral sense as some consensus can come from such debates and talks while belief in what can never be proven we see as a waste of time.

If morality is not the focus of the seeker, then why bother seeking at all?

Adam and Eve, as the myth goes, sought a moral sense and that is why they ate of the tree of knowledge. They were written up to be our guide and example and that is why the Jews saw Eden as where man was elevated, not where he fell which was a foolish Christian notion.

You will note that A & E went to knowledge and not God for their moral sense.

God, in this myth, gave man freedom from as well as freedom of religion and Christianity ended freedom from religion for 1,000 years after Constantine bought out the then Orthodox Church with murder and the burning of other peoples gospels.

Regards
DL