The Jewish Vote

[Intell]

One thing, I am fascinated in is the jewish vote across nations.

Jews in the US, were socialist in many case, and after that overwhelmingly democratic, and have maintained their democratic party loyalty.

In Australia, jewish voters generally voted labor in the past, but now vote for the liberals, though the electorate of Melbourne ports, is held by labor, an oddity, for an electorate of that socio-economic profile in the city. Jewish vote for rich people, being more labor, than rich people in general?


In Canada, jews voted liberal in the past, and the NDP, but have shifted to the conservatives.

In the UK, jews were forefront in the socialist movement, but now vote tory, though the jewish vote in Manchester and Liverpool, seems to be less tory, than the Jewish vote in other areas.

In France, Leon Bulm, a socialist was jewish, but now, the jewish vote, or atleast the isreali-french vote seems to vote for the traditional right. Is the right-wing vote explained because of the death of former jews that lived pre-1930's in vichy france, and the jews expelled from Algeria being right-wing? Or the fact that Israeli-French Jews are more right-wing than the jewish populaiton in general, as I've heard somewhere, that the Jewish vote in France used to be left-wing, but is now more divided.

In Isreal, there seems to be a divide, with jews from European heritage being more secular, and leftish, bar Russian jews, whom vote right-wing, though still secular party, and jews from arab countries, being more right-wing. This seems more to be the case, with left-wing in Israel, being dominated by europeans, and their more religious and traditionalist culture and life-stile being made feel inferior to the secular culture, dominated by the governing Israeli left.

Any thoughts, about the jewish vote across countries?

[ApatheticAustrian]

Many jewish voters were - out of historical reasons and ofc inside the "west" - liberal and/or socialist and ofc an important part of the pro-democracy movement.

Since the classical right was always in favor of pushing for their "own" religion and half a dozen other reasons, western Jews mostly voted socialist/left-ish (yeah, yeah, over-simplification) - the increasing polarization of the middle east conflict and the increased "anti-zionism" of some parts of the western "left", combined with increased islamic influence, which brings a new taste of anti-semitism into the western discussion, has succeded to make the jewish vote in some countries go "neutral" or straight conservative again, sicne conservatives today are much less dogmatic about religion and stuff than in the past.

Quite simple, imho.

[parochial boy]

Many jewish voters were - out of historical reasons and ofc inside the "west" - liberal and/or socialist and ofc an important part of the pro-democracy movement.

Since the classical right was always in favor of pushing for their "own" religion and half a dozen other reasons, western Jews mostly voted socialist/left-ish (yeah, yeah, over-simplification) - the increasing polarization of the middle east conflict and the increased "anti-zionism" of some parts of the western "left", combined with increased islamic influence, which brings a new taste of anti-semitism into the western discussion, has succeded to make the jewish vote in some countries go "neutral" or straight conservative again, sicne conservatives today are much less dogmatic about religion and stuff than in the past.

Quite simple, imho.

yeah, to add a couple of points though, one is that the Israel conflict tends (although not always) to have a pretty standard partisan bias where left wing parties are more pro-Palestine and right wing parties are pro-Israel. Left wing parties are also more friendly towards immigration, and more open towards muslim communities, combined with an unfortunate taste for anti-semitism (closely interlinked with the conflicts in the Middle East) among certain on the left has pushed Jewish people in most of Europe to the right.

French Jews of North African descent are almost certainly the majority by the way, although it would be pretty much impossible to verify for certain, due to the French laws on ethnic statistics.

In 2012 the Frenc Jewish vote was:

45% Sarko
22.5% Hollande
13.5% Le Pen
8.5% Mélenchon

http://www.la-croix.com/Religion/Judaisme/Comment-votent-juifs-France-2017-03-15-1200831994

[Babeuf]

As a secular Jew in the Northeast I've heard so many of my fellow Jews say things like "of course I voted for Obama, I'm Jewish." Anecdata but loyalty to the Democratic party is still going strong, at least among the secular Jews I interact with.

Securalism in general could be another reason for the disparity between US Jewry and the other western nations.

[Hnv1]

Jews voted to who ever welcomed them most. In France and the UK the socialists and Germany the liberals and the radicals.

[DavidB.]

Jews historically vote for the non-Christian pillar parties here: right-wingers/liberals (like my grandfather) for the VVD, left-wingers/socialists for the PvdA. However, as the Israeli-Arab conflict issue has become more salient and the left has become more outspokenly anti-Israel, SGP (as most pro-Israel party that's not the PVV) and CU (pro-Israel and leftish) have become much more popular with Jews too. The VVD is by far the largest party with Jews here: secular, right-wing (good for high income earners) and pro-Israel. PvdA (who clearly overperformed among Jews) and CU are next. CDA and D66 are less popular than with the general public, and the same goes for the PVV, but in their case the difference is not even that large. Small right-wing parties VNL and FvD overperformed with Jews.

[Silent Hunter]

I believe Labour may have serious problems with Jewish votes in the upcoming election due to the Ken Livingstone controversy.

[DavidB.]

I believe Labour may have serious problems with Jewish votes in the upcoming election due to the Ken Livingstone controversy.

Corbyn himself probably doesn't help either.

[parochial boy]

Wasn't the Jewish vote some thing like 70% Tory to 20% Labour at the last GE? It'll make a difference in Hendon but not too much elsewhere

[DavidB.]

Wasn't the Jewish vote some thing like 70% Tory to 20% Labour at the last GE? It'll make a difference in Hendon but not too much elsewhere

I don't know the exact figures but I doubt it was that lopsized, even if the Tories probably "won" the Jewish vote.

[Tintrlvr]

Many jewish voters were - out of historical reasons and ofc inside the "west" - liberal and/or socialist and ofc an important part of the pro-democracy movement.

Since the classical right was always in favor of pushing for their "own" religion and half a dozen other reasons, western Jews mostly voted socialist/left-ish (yeah, yeah, over-simplification) - the increasing polarization of the middle east conflict and the increased "anti-zionism" of some parts of the western "left", combined with increased islamic influence, which brings a new taste of anti-semitism into the western discussion, has succeded to make the jewish vote in some countries go "neutral" or straight conservative again, sicne conservatives today are much less dogmatic about religion and stuff than in the past.

Quite simple, imho.

In addition to the influence of conflicts over Israel/Islam/the Middle East, I would also add that, in places where politics is more polarized along economic than social lines, Jews trended hard to the right (from a previously very left-wing position) starting in the 90s, well before 9/11, when Israel/Islam/Middle East issues became much more politically polarizing generally. Not to play too much into stereotypes, but the average Jewish income in most Western countries is significantly above the national average income, and Jews vote like it these days. In the U.S., that still means voting strongly Democratic as politics is much less polarized on purely economic/income-based lines here, and other factors that are important to political identity in the U.S. (being highly educated, not being evangelical Christian or Mormon, living in urban areas, etc.) lead to most Jews being Democrats, but in, say, France or Britain or Canada*, that means Jews have moved towards favoring the right-wing parties.

*Outside of Quebec, where the issues are somewhat different, though even within Quebec Montreal Jews have moved significantly towards the Conservatives (albeit still overall leaning Liberal) despite the extremely strong Liberal machine and general polarization of Quebec politics along sovereigntist-unionist and Francophone-Anglophone lines that leaves less room for economic interests. And anyway Canada is not as polarized on income lines as France or Britain.

[parochial boy]

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/labour-support-among-british-jews-collapses-to-8-5-per-cent-1.56476

It's funny how, if you spend your time pandering to antisemitism, Jews stop voting for you.

Not to play too much into stereotypes, but the average Jewish income in most Western countries is significantly above the national average income, and Jews vote like it these days. In the U.S., that still means voting strongly Democratic as politics is much less polarized on purely economic/income-based lines here, and other factors that are important to political identity in the U.S. (being highly educated, not being evangelical Christian or Mormon, living in urban areas, etc.) lead to most Jews being Democrats, but in, say, France or Britain or Canada*, that means Jews have moved towards favoring the right-wing parties.

Yes, but a couple of thoughts about that:

1. Even in western Europe, the relationship between income and voting has declined pretty dramatically. Back in the day, the French working class vote was 70% left wing; but this year, the working class typically voted for the right and the wealthy voted for the Centrist-Liberal. Even in the second round in 2012, with no Le Pen, Hollande got 58% of working class voters, which is well down from the scores the Socialists used to pull. Likewise, in the UK, especially post Brexit, polling is showing virtually no difference between the middle class and working class vote. YouGov had a Tory lead of 16 points over the LibDems among both groups in this poll

2. There are still a large number of Jewish people in low socio-economic groups across Europe. For instance, the descendents of North African Jewish immigrants in France aren't a hugely wealthy group by enlarge. The Jewish cultural hotspot in France is Sarcelles, which is a pretty rough area with a very high amount of Social Housing. Haredi Jews in Europe also tend to be of lower socio-economic status, many still live in fairly ungentrified areas of North East London, Manchester or Gateshead. (I would be curious to know if their voting patterns differ at all to more secular Jews).

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Wasn't the Jewish vote some thing like 70% Tory to 20% Labour at the last GE? It'll make a difference in Hendon but not too much elsewhere

Disraeli effect holds!