AMA Oregon Progressive/ NoVA Green

[NOVA Green]

Y'all know the drill, and there has been a S**t-storm of threads here over the past 24 hours....

Shoot--- and I will respond within the next 24 hours or slightly less until I need to crash before I go to work at the factory early Saturday. Tick tock....

If not, my response might be delayed for 72 hours after when I get off the twelve hour shifts and it's finally the weekend.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Can one be both an Oregon Progressive and a NoVA Green?

[Virginiá]

Why is your user name "NOVA Green"?

How old are you? (feel free to ignore, I'm just curious)

Do you think Oregon could start trending Republican in any meaningful way in the next 30 years?

Have you ever voted for a Republican in federal or state legislative/executive elections?

[OSR stands with Israel]

Are you a Blazer Fan

[NOVA Green]

Can one be both an Oregon Progressive and a NoVA Green?

Well honestly, there is a fundamental contradiction that you have identified in my screen avatar and Atlas name.

To put it simply, because it's my work week  on 12 hour shifts, I chose the title NoVA Green after several years of lurking on the Forum starting in '06, when I finally signed up during the earl;y days of the '08 Dem Pres Primaries.

I selected NoVA Green, because of some personal connections to the area that goes back to both a GF from college who was from Fairfax and later Arlington, as well as some family proximity on my Mother's side from a small factory town 20 Miles over the border from Maryland, where Baltimore was one any hours drive away, and DC barely over two hours (Excepting rush hour traffic scenes).

I will say that I saw more Nader signs in Arlington VA, than just about anywhere else in the East Coast that I visited during that time.

"Progressive" is now essentially an older term, that dates me and shows my age. Back in the '90s and early 2000s it was a "Rebel Term" that contrasted the DLC wing of the Dem Party against the insurgents, who fundamentally believed that the Democratic Party had sold its soul upon the alter of Free Trade agreements, Centrist concentrated Domestic policies, along with an aggressive foreign policy and the continuation of immoral and failed policies in the Middle East (Iraq) that were going to create major problems in the future... (Cue Iraq War v 2.0).

[NOVA Green]

Why is your user name "NOVA Green"?

How old are you? (feel free to ignore, I'm just curious)

Do you think Oregon could start trending Republican in any meaningful way in the next 30 years?

Have you ever voted for a Republican in federal or state legislative/executive elections?

I spent the virtual part of an hour doing a long and extensive reply and got a timeout error....

What's wrong with this Forum, where I can't even go back to pull my draft up....

Any advice??? Is there a 1-800 number for Tech Support... or did I just waste an hour posting a reply that got deleted bcs of a timeout error?   

[Virginiá]

I spent the virtual part of an hour doing a long and extensive reply and got a timeout error....

What's wrong with this Forum, where I can't even go back to pull my draft up....

Any advice??? Is there a 1-800 number for Tech Support... or did I just waste an hour posting a reply that got deleted bcs of a timeout error?    

rofl damn thx anyway tho

it's because of issues like that that I habitually copy even remotely long posts to the clipboard and/or notepad before clicking Post. I've gotten burned too many times as it is

[NOVA Green]

I spent the virtual part of an hour doing a long and extensive reply and got a timeout error....

What's wrong with this Forum, where I can't even go back to pull my draft up....

Any advice??? Is there a 1-800 number for Tech Support... or did I just waste an hour posting a reply that got deleted bcs of a timeout error?    

rofl damn thx anyway tho

it's because of issues like that that I habitually copy even remotely long posts to the clipboard and/or notepad before clicking Post. I've gotten burned too many times as it is

I'll try to recreat my response tomorrow or if not the next day, since I'm finally done with the Hell that is 12 Hour Manual Labor shifts,,,,

It's my Friday Night, but I have to pick my wife in 6.5 Hrs from the same Plant, so need to crash soon so I can drive safe..... Still bummed my response timed out. It wasn't a 11k Char limit, but I probably gave you close to half of that or not more....    I tend to be on the verbose side of the fence, if you haven't noticed.....

[muon2]

From what I gather you are just south of the area that will experience the total eclipse on Mon Aug 21. Will you be able to get into the path of totality or be just outside (IMO the difference is worth the effort)?

[NOVA Green]

Why is your user name "NOVA Green"?

How old are you? (feel free to ignore, I'm just curious)

Do you think Oregon could start trending Republican in any meaningful way in the next 30 years?

Have you ever voted for a Republican in federal or state legislative/executive elections?

Ok-- going to unfortunately have to make it brief to avoid timeout errors, and was has appeared to be at this time really slow Atlas server time...

1.) "Why is your user name "NOVA Green?"

I think I answered most of that in a response to Shua, however I neglected the "Green" component...

I grew up as a young child in the late '70s/early '80s in small town/rural Oregon, where there were both many Plywood Mills and Food Co-Ops & Health Food Stores basically side by side, within the same neighborhoods.

We had over six mills in the small county I lived in during my formative years....

I have frequently on many posts related to Oregon mentioned the "Hippie/Redneck" overlap.... Hippie and Redneck are obviously pejorative terms that attempt to generalize and stereotype entire groups of individuals into a single common group....

In the Mill Towns towns, Cities, and working-class neighborhoods of Oregon, as well as many rural parts of the state this was the norm.

So roll on through time, in the late '80s, I get heavily involved in the environmental movement in Oregon... The time of the Timber Barons is done.   They already logged the Hell out of my State, in publicly owned land, and now they want the last scraps of Old Growth Timber remaining, because of how their systematic over-harvesting of Public Timber from the '50s onward had led to a "crisis" that they blamed on "environmental regulation"....

Reality, is that this was yet another argument that the major players in the US Timber industry used, to try to avoid critique of systematic policies of over-logging public land in the PacNW, that since the '50s, has fed most of the softwood timber used in housing  construction...

Meanwhile, our Salmon population count wad decreasing that not only recreational, but also commercial fisherman have bans, because of "downstream impacts" created by Federal, Statewide, and Corporate practices, destroying the environment of my beloved Oregon....

So, I did what a lot of other Oregonians, including many kids from small towns like me, and joined the environmental movement.

Fought against Toxic Waste incineration in Ohio, even got arrested back in '92 as a coordinated act of civil disobedience.

Went to public hearings about attempts from the Coal Industry trying to use a new form of mining that would completely destroy many mountain streams in Appalachian and turn them into deserts of baked clay.... Back in '93, brought a UMWA 3rd Generation Coal Miner to my college campus, to talk about how Peabody Coal and the Operators were trying to finally bust the Mineworkers forever, through the practice of "Double-Breasting" (Shutting down Union shops, and opening up Non-Union shops right next door or elsewhere to max profits).

2.)" How old are you? "

The same answer that Deep Thought gave in the extremely awesome Douglas Adams radio play, books, TV show, and eventually movie...

https://www.quora.com/Why-and-how-is-42-the-answer-to-life-the-universe-and-everything

3.) "Do you think Oregon could start trending Republican in any meaningful way in the next 30 years?"

Well, you didn't specify Statewide/Federal Elections, so I'll have to make a few assumptions based upon on of these hypothetical XX years in the future trend scenes...

So--- At a Statewide level, absolutely.... Oregonian's have no problem voting Republican for Governor and Statewide Offices, despite their disdain for the National Republican Party....

"Upstate" vs "Downstate" dynamics" will always be at play here.... and if the Pubs can play well enough in Multnomah County and perform somewhat respectable, win ClackCo, and do very well in the Mid-Valley, and rack up margins in Southern and Central/Eastern Oregon sure....

Federal level---- it will be difficult to see how a Republican will be elected Senator from Oregon within the next 30 years....

I suspect that their we would have an LBJ Vietnam Meltdown, massive depression under a Democratic Administration at this point.... shoot look at Merkley's numbers in '14 in rural areas and Mill Towns, and Wydens in '16....

If anything, we'll lose a Neo-Liberal Democratic Senator in 2022, to be replaced by a more Progressive Democratic candidate... just look at how well the Working Families Party candidate performed against Wyden throughout the state, even in very Republican cities and precincts...
o
At a Presidential level, shoot that we hard to perform... it used to be easier in Oregon.... keep your numbers as high as possible in heavily New Deal Democratic Multnomah County, run up the numbers in the suburbs of Washington and Clackamas County, and try to maximize your margins downstate, especially in population centers like Marion and Jackson County, and other areas "downstate".

Not seeing it happen.... would not be surprised to see one of the largest traditional Republican Counties in Eastern Oregon flip in 2024 (Umatilla County)....

If that happens OR-CD-02 could be endangered once you throw in the heavily Democratic Precincts in Jackson County (Ashland) and Deschustes County (Bend) and then throw in a bit of Hood River County (One of the most Dem Counties in the State....

I guess the main way I could see a Pub Pres candidate winning in Oregon, would be running to the "Left" of the Dem Party on economic issues.... That's why Trump did so well in the Mill Towns, because of his laser focused messaging, regarding the whole unfair trade issues and all that... By 2020, Oregon will likely be more Democratic at the Presidential level than in '12, and possibly even '08, because not only did he cause permanent damage in the upper-income 'burbs of Portland, but also promised something to the suffering mill workers that he cannot possibly deliver....

4.) "Have you ever voted for a Republican in federal or state legislative/executive elections?"

Good question--- the first time I remember voting Democrat was in '04 (Kerry bcs of W's Occupation and War on Iraq that I knew would destabilize the region for decades), and I have voted every election since I was eligible to vote in '92.

I think I might have voted for a few Liberal Republicans for the OR-SEN and OR-House seat that they represented that had a really good reputation in the community as not being schills of the National Republican Party and firmly opposed to the attempts of the Oregon Citizens Alliance to turn the Oregon Republican Party into an Anti-Gay, Anti-Abortion, and Christian Fundamentalist party, to turn what was once a proud and respected statewide party into some more representative of an idealogical litmus test deal out of some random Southern or Midwestern state....


 

[NOVA Green]

Not a question, but I must say I always enjoy reading your posts. You're easily one of my favorite left-wing posters here, and it's astounding how polite and friendly you are. I have no doubt that that's how you are IRL as well, so kudos!

Thanks!!!

Just see how polite and friendly I am if you try to cross my picket line at the plant..

[NOVA Green]

Are you a Blazer Fan

Of course I'm a "fan".... but since it's basically a team with a fan base mainly out of Metro  PDX, we generally don't follow it too much downstate, and although I used to play Basketball in Jr High, hasn't really been a sport I follow that much these days....

I do love the Red & Black blazer uniforms, and glad we're back to the days of the Trailblazers and not the days of the late '90s "Jailblazers", when they kept popping members of the team on minor Marijuana related infractions.

But always down with any Oregon Professional Sports team making it national.... (wait what else do we have??? Football--- No. Baseball-- No--- Hockey--- No...... WAIT!!!! Soccer yes--- Go Timbers!!!!

[NOVA Green]

From what I gather you are just south of the area that will experience the total eclipse on Mon Aug 21. Will you be able to get into the path of totality or be just outside (IMO the difference is worth the effort)?

Giant laughs aloud.... not sure about "getting into the path of totality", but from what I'm hearing rooms on the Oregon Coast are already getting booked out....

Still, it's in our neck of the woods, and there is a 4,400 Ft Mtn only 25 minutes away that should provide a decent view, even if we don't do the whole "vacation" scene out of it....

So pray tell... what exactly is the path of totality? 

Based upon your map we're pretty darn close regardless, and I'm definitely glad that Oregon is getting a major boost of those seeking that path.... Do you have a link???

[muon2]

From what I gather you are just south of the area that will experience the total eclipse on Mon Aug 21. Will you be able to get into the path of totality or be just outside (IMO the difference is worth the effort)?

Giant laughs aloud.... not sure about "getting into the path of totality", but from what I'm hearing rooms on the Oregon Coast are already getting booked out....

Still, it's in our neck of the woods, and there is a 4,400 Ft Mtn only 25 minutes away that should provide a decent view, even if we don't do the whole "vacation" scene out of it....

So pray tell... what exactly is the path of totality? 

Based upon your map we're pretty darn close regardless, and I'm definitely glad that Oregon is getting a major boost of those seeking that path.... Do you have a link???

The path of totality is where the moon completely covers the sun from the point of view of an observer on the ground. It is only in that path that stars are visible as is the sun's corona - perhaps the most amazing sight in all of astronomy. Outside the path is a partial eclipse where the moon only blocks some of the sun's light. Even at 99% eclipsed, the tiny bit of the remaining sun is still 10,000 times brighter than the corona and that's enough light to block the corona as well as other stars.

Links with interactive google maps are at http://www.eclipsewise.com/solar/SEgmap/2001-2100/SE2017Aug21Tgmap.html and http://xjubier.free.fr/en/site_pages/solar_eclipses/TSE_2017_GoogleMapFull.html

[NOVA Green]

bump....

Been a few Years.

Shoot so long as you're not using me for target practice.

[morgankingsley]

What was the first election you voted in

[NOVA Green]

What was the first election you voted in

The first Election that I was eligible to vote in was the 1992 General Election.

I was living in Ohio at the time, but as a College Student was able to vote absentee ballot by mail in Oregon.

Seem to recall voting for a Green or Socialist candidate for President of the USA, but it might well have been Ross Perot, like many of my family and friends did back home (Def not Clinton, nor Bush Sr), and then voted for a mixture of 3rd Party or DEM candidates down-ballot.

Pretty sure I voted against Packwood (US-SEN REP) in the '92 GE, but can't swear by it considering that Les AuCoin (DEM), wasn't considered a friend of either Timber Country nor a protector of the interests of Manufacturing Workers in Downstate Oregon, as opposed to Harry Lonsdale whom I had met in person in a small venue well outside of Metro-PDX....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_United_States_Senate_election_in_Oregon

Harry Lonsdale was an awesome Democrat, who not only represented the Downstate Oregon Environmental Perspective, but also was tight with the Mill-Workers and Loggers within Downstate Oregon....

He almost beat legendary Oregon Republican Senator Mark Hatfield, who was extremely close with many of us from his principled position on a wide variety of issues from War & Peace, Environmental Politics, and a principled opposition to both Abortion and the Death Penalty as a Devout Catholic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hatfield

When I was a young child back in '80 Mark Hatfield was an Oregon Legend, along with other Republicans such as Tom McCall.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_McCall

The 1988 GE Pres Results in OR was a direct backlash against the Reagan-Bush Administration....

The 1990 SEN & GOV results were an exclamation point.

The 1992 PRES, SEN, and REP results continued the trend...


Next chapter is obviously the "Oregon Civil War" between parts of upstate and downstate Oregon regarding the politics of Timber & Jobs.....

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Which Humphrey Bogart movie is your signature picture from? It looks like Casablanca but I don't recognize the scene by sight.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Favorite performance by Alec Guinness?

[NOVA Green]

Which Humphrey Bogart movie is your signature picture from? It looks like Casablanca but I don't recognize the scene by sight.

Casablanca.... the White Tux with the Black Bow tie is I believe the only Bogie movie where he appears in such a custom.

Rick is in the back of his private bar and kicks a German Diplomat out of the private back gambling rooms, while he is signing business checks.

Peter Lorre's character comes in, and says "two bad about those two German Couriers"....

This is a pivotal moment, since now Rick can now potentially have two "letters of transit" to fleet NAZI occupied Casablanca.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxnxhEzju58

Don't want to give away any spoilers, but this becomes a critical moment from when we move from the early chess game of the movie towards the middle stages of the chess game, and then ultimately the end game later on.....   

I would highly recommend folks check out Casablanca, not only because of it's cultural and historical significance (Although honestly it might not rank in my top 5 Bogart Movies of all time), but definitely tells a story of the times.....

[OSR stands with Israel]

Favorite OR Governor in the past 40 years

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Which Humphrey Bogart movie is your signature picture from? It looks like Casablanca but I don't recognize the scene by sight.

Casablanca.... the White Tux with the Black Bow tie is I believe the only Bogie movie where he appears in such a custom.

Rick is in the back of his private bar and kicks a German Diplomat out of the private back gambling rooms, while he is signing business checks.

Peter Lorre's character comes in, and says "two bad about those two German Couriers"....

This is a pivotal moment, since now Rick can now potentially have two "letters of transit" to fleet NAZI occupied Casablanca.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxnxhEzju58

Don't want to give away any spoilers, but this becomes a critical moment from when we move from the early chess game of the movie towards the middle stages of the chess game, and then ultimately the end game later on.....   

I would highly recommend folks check out Casablanca, not only because of it's cultural and historical significance (Although honestly it might not rank in my top 5 Bogart Movies of all time), but definitely tells a story of the times.....

Oh, I love Casablanca and I've seen it more than once; I just didn't recognize the scene off the top of my head.

[NOVA Green]

Favorite performance by Alec Guinness?

Wow-- talk about a tough question!!!

Instead of firing off a quick initial "shoot from the hip/gut response", it required a bit of further reflection for such a legendary actor with an illustrious career spanning so many decades of Sir Alec Guinness' contribution to the world of acting on multiple platforms.

So for anyone interested reading further, I must naturally start with a few brief comments (NOVA Green succinct style)       :

1.) Alec Guinness started as a stage actor prior to WW II mainly performing at the legendary Old Vic theater

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/nov/16/old-vic-story-of-great-theatre-kean-olivier-spacey-review-temperance-hall-theatrical-landmark

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Old_Vic

As someone who appreciates the power of the live performance of talented actors on the stage, I would imagine these would be some of his finest performances compared to his TV or Film History.

Although there is a chance that Audio recordings of some of Alec Guinness plays exist, as the BBC would record Audio recordings to be broadcast over the radio, I have yet to research nor find them.

2.) After Alec came back from the War, he started to transition in the nascent revival of the British Motion Picture Industry.

There is also a good chance that he had roles in the early days of British Television, which essentially was more like a play than a movie in terms of the budgets, sets, blocking, and budgets.

Needless to say I have not seen any of these works, and considering that the BBC destroyed huge swathes of historical cultural artifacts, I am not sure if and how many of his early British TV History exists.

3.) Alec and many others of his generation were trail-blazers and essentially revolutionary tradition within the top British acting University programs that incorporated a mixture of theater, Telly, and Motion Picture training programs, and certainly voice-work as well (My slightly younger sister graduated from such a program within the UK and for almost 20 Years has been an American Ex-Pat living in the UK).

I can imagine that there would be some live footage of Alec on stage from his Broadway Tony performance in Dylan, MacBeth, and A Walk in the Woods between '66 and '77 (If not at least audio recordings), but considering again, that I have not yet listened to nor watched any of these, I would naturally need to leave that on the table.

4.) I haven't seen many of Alec Guinness films, since he has such a rich acting history, but here are a few top contenders.

    A.) Kind Hearts and Coronets (1949) is one of his earliest film acting gigs and was a brilliant dark comedy where he played the role of multiple members of a family

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kind_Hearts_and_Coronets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r-n2wZzeJk

    B.) The Lavender Hill Mob (1951) is a brilliant comedy about a group of bungling, but well meaning bank robbers that come up with a unique concept to exploit the post WW II Anglo-Franco scene to provide a good heist without anybody getting hurt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lavender_Hill_Mob

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pnUi8xLQdE

    C.) The Lady Killers (1955) is another brilliant example of Alec Guinness playing a comedic yet sympathetic role in another Heist flick.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ladykillers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD5r1CG0HmY

This is just the initial wave, so I will respond with additional wave of some of my favorite Alec Guinness movies from the "classic era", so think of it more like a quarter-finals within the context of European Football.

Will respond again, but what do you think of the three listed above for the earlier film era ('46-55), and if there are any other contenders in the ring?   

[NOVA Green]

Favorite performance by Alec Guinness?

Part II:

This is a continuation from the original Part I, where I showcased three Alec Guinness earlier performances that were classic examples of some of his earlier film work.

The next batch would be films that perhaps are better known than the others to an American audience, but I would consider to represent a different acting style from Alec Guinness....

The Bridge on the River Kwai (1957) surely would be up there on the list, and a classic Epic War Drama Movie set in the Asian Theater in Burma during WW II, a decent chunk of it within a Japanese POW camp...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bridge_on_the_River_Kwai

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM6uU9CWjAI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9f5FmSQeB4

Lawrence of Arabia (1962) naturally would be on the list as well, since not only is it an epic story set during the pivotal WW I and the collapse of the Ottoman Empire was not only a ripping good yarn, but also again featured Alec in a serious and dramatic role, in this case playing the historical character of Prince Faisal of Saudi Arabia...

Although Guinness is one of many talented supporting actors, he does own the role and gives credit to his English-Arabic accent from another actor on the Film he worked with Omar Sharif.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_of_Arabia_(film)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy6Ktqouw34

His performance in the scene regarding the Sykes-Picot Treaty between the French and English to divide the Middle East is legendary....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBrw53I8QU0

Doctor Zhivago (1965) would naturally spring to mind as well for his performance in a dramatic role....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Zhivago_(film)

Again, Alec plays a major supporting character role in this film set during the Russian Revolution, but his owns it brilliantly...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7sjiSAIGx8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn1eDT93H1Y


Next stop Part III of Alec Guinness performances that I have seen....

[NOVA Green]

Favorite performance by Alec Guinness?

Alec Guinness Part III....

Again can only speak to those performances that I have seen....

So naturally cannot speak to his performances in movies such as Adolph Hitler: The Last Ten Days (1973) where he played Hitler, or Caesar and Cleopatra (1976) let alone his portrayal of George Smiley in a TV Miniseries of a classic spy novel from legendary author John le Carré in Tinker, Tailor Soldier Spy  (1979).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_le_Carr%C3%A9

Star Wars: Episode IV--- A New Hope.

This was obviously Alec Guinness' perhaps best known performance for generations of Americans not familiar not familiar with some of his earlier Films, and those who thought of him from some of the blockbuster films from my Part II response, that thought of him more as a supporting actor than anything else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_(film)

Clip from Alec Guinness from a New Hope....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4UhQ4hZzRM


Now, Alec Guinness appeared in a TV Movie of Little Lord Fauntleroy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Lord_Fauntleroy_(1980_film)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vjnu4X9fffs


Next stop final vote for favorite Alec Guinness performance....