Let's build an relevant "urban/suburban/rural county" map

[Adam Griffin]

I hope I'm not the only one, but virtually every county map I have ever looked at that tries to delineate rural/suburban/urban counties makes me chuckle. Whether it's from the Census (way too generous to "urban/suburban") or maps based on other categories (like population density), I just find myself nitpicking.

So, I thought it'd be a fun project if we crowdsource the creation (I think, at least in part, the faults I find in various maps are a result of people trying to classify areas with which they have no actual familiarity) for more relevant, accurate results. We would first need to agree on some standards for what constitutes the three categories - though I'm not entirely convinced that people going on their personal knowledge of areas combined with their own impressions wouldn't be as accurate as some of the maps out there.

One example I've pondered is whether the standards should be relative: would the definition for "suburban", for instance, apply uniformly to areas in North GA and North NJ, or would it be something that takes into account the population density and level of development in areas surrounding it?

As far as contributions go, I'd like for this to be something that is built entirely off of posters' intimate familiarity with the states/areas; in other words, nobody makes a map for a state or area where they haven't lived or spent a lot of time in recently.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I'd love to work on this! I'd be happy to work on Massachusetts, Vermont, New Jersey, or possibly even upstate New York.

I'd recommend standards that are more "impressionistic" than most metrics; viz., since this will presumably be intended to measure political behavior, how the people in each area think of themselves should have a primary role. People in very dense, built-up areas can still think of themselves as suburban, and people in counties dominated by exurbia or one or a few small cities very often still think of themselves as rural or at least "small-town". I think we should for the most part follow people's lead in those determinations. For example, the ~lived experience~ of Berkshire County is (in my opinion) that of a rural area, even though a lot of its population is concentrated in Pittsfield and North Adams.

[JerryArkansas]

I would take on Arkansas if you want.  But I would have a question or two for you on what exact classifications which you wanted to use. 

[VPH]

I could do Kansas

[RINO Tom]

I'd be very willing and interested to help (for either Illinois or Iowa), but yeah, I'd need some clarification!  Iowa and Illinois are especially good examples of where that distinction gets messy, and someone on the East Coast might consider a county rural that literally no one in our states would.  Here is Downtown Peoria, in Peoria County, IL:



Personally, I would find it crazy to call such a place rural, but if you did some arbitrary population cutoff, Peoria County might fall short (population of 185,006) ... after all, there is very significant population across the river in Tazewell County (134,385).  Even with both combined, people from the huge metro areas out east might not be satisfied, but the living experience in Peoria is clearly not rural, whatever you want to call it, at least not to the people of Illinois.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I'd be very willing and interested to help (for either Illinois or Iowa), but yeah, I'd need some clarification!  Iowa and Illinois are especially good examples of where that distinction gets messy, and someone on the East Coast might consider a county rural that literally no one in our states would.  Here is Downtown Peoria, in Peoria County, IL:



Personally, I would find it crazy to call such a place rural, but if you did some arbitrary population cutoff, Peoria County might fall short (population of 185,006) ... after all, there is very significant population across the river in Tazewell County (134,385).  Even with both combined, people from the huge metro areas out east might not be satisfied, but the living experience in Peoria is clearly not rural, whatever you want to call it, at least not to the people of Illinois.

Excellent counterpoint to my post. These are exactly the sorts of discussions the Census Bureau never seems to have.

[muon2]

I think one problem is that "suburban" is a moving target. What it meant in the 1960's is certainly not what it means today as those older suburbs have aged and newer suburbs have come about over the last 50 years. At the same time urban areas have grown out to meet other old smaller urban centers. For example Kane county IL is considered suburban due to its distance from Chicago. Yet both Aurora and Elgin in Kane are old cities that would be urban if not for the much larger city of Chicago. Is suburban only a subjective term. I think that's why the Census only looks at urban areas since they have to have an objective definition.

[RINO Tom]

I think one problem is that "suburban" is a moving target. What it meant in the 1960's is certainly not what it means today as those older suburbs have aged and newer suburbs have come about over the last 50 years. At the same time urban areas have grown out to meet other old smaller urban centers. For example Kane county IL is considered suburban due to its distance from Chicago. Yet both Aurora and Elgin in Kane are old cities that would be urban if not for the much larger city of Chicago. Is suburban only a subjective term. I think that's why the Census only looks at urban areas since they have to have an objective definition.

Good point.  Also, I remember you (correctly) correcting my IL population numbers a bit ago, so I decided to do it by county using 2016 estimates and got this instead:

Chicagoland: 8,488,857 (66.31%)
  Chicago: 2,720,546* (21.25%)
  Cook Suburbs: 2,482,953 (19.40%)
  Collar Counties: 3,285,358 (25.66%)
Downstate Illinois: 4,312,682 (33.69%)
  Northern Illinois: 1,182,137 (9.23%)
  Central Illinois: 1,921,129 (15.01%)
  Southern Illinois: 1,209,416 (9.45%)

* = 2015 estimate, as 2016 city estimates weren't available

Obviously the distinctions between Northern, Central and Southern are objective, but I did the best I could!  I also chose to define Downstate Illinois as everything but Chicago and not the way-more-boring South of I-80.  Slightly off-topic, but it reminded me of this.

[Bismarck]

I'd be happy to do Indiana although I've never made colored county maps on here.
Could somebody run me through how to go about that?
Also I would suggest a fourth category for counties with small industrial cities/college towns (for example Tippecanoe county Indiana is not surburban, but it seems incorrect to call it urban and especially not rural)

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I'd be happy to do Indiana although I've never made colored county maps on here.
Could somebody run me through how to go about that?
Also I would suggest a fourth category for counties with small industrial cities/college towns (for example Tippecanoe county Indiana is not surburban, but it seems incorrect to call it urban and especially not rural)

Urban, suburban, rural, and small-city, then? That'd clarify the status of at least two counties in Massachusetts, and is probably a more helpful metric for measuring certain recent political trends anyway.

[Bismarck]

I'd be happy to do Indiana although I've never made colored county maps on here.
Could somebody run me through how to go about that?
Also I would suggest a fourth category for counties with small industrial cities/college towns (for example Tippecanoe county Indiana is not surburban, but it seems incorrect to call it urban and especially not rural)

Urban, suburban, rural, and small-city, then? That'd clarify the status of at least two counties in Massachusetts, and is probably a more helpful metric for measuring certain recent political trends anyway.

Yes I think that would suffice.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Can I give my first impressions for Massachusetts or do we want to agree more on ground rules first?

[Del Tachi]

I could certainly handle Mississippi and Alabama.

But I think we'd be making a major mistake if we did not include a "small town" type category.

[Gass3268]

I could certainly handle Mississippi and Alabama.

But I think we'd be making a major mistake if we did not include a "small town" type category.

What would we consider a small town? Any town over 50,000, 20,000, 10,000, 5,000? Depending on how low you get almost every county could be considered a small town county.

[RINO Tom]

I think a good breakdown would be something like,

"Urban" is a county with an ANCHOR city of 200,000 or above ... that would include places like Rochester, NY and Columbus, OH on the low end but eliminates places like Aurora, IL, as they would be suburban in nature.

"Suburban" is any county that is part of a metro area involving a city of 200,000 or above, with that state's "map author" left to his/her own discretion as to what qualifies as exurban/possibly rural on the outer edges.

"Mid-Sized City" is a county with a city above 100,000 but less than 200,000, and the counties that its "suburbs" are in (assuming it is not a suburb itself) would likely be considered exurban or rural.

"Small City" would be a city above 50,000 but less than 100,000, and the counties that might be a part of its metro are almost certainly also "Small City" counties or are rural.

Anything less would be considered rural, deferring to the map author's perceived exceptions ... after all, the subjectivity is what would make this useful.  Again, these would be guidelines, but people's actual knowledge of the area would trump these.

[Del Tachi]

I could certainly handle Mississippi and Alabama.

But I think we'd be making a major mistake if we did not include a "small town" type category.

What would we consider a small town? Any town over 50,000, 20,000, 10,000, 5,000? Depending on how low you get almost every county could be considered a small town county.

"Small town counties" would be those where a majority (or at least a significant portion) of the county population resides in a single jurisdiction of between 10,000 to 100,000 people.

Maybe something like that?

[Goldwater]

I think a good breakdown would be something like,

"Urban" is a county with an ANCHOR city of 200,000 or above ... that would include places like Rochester, NY and Columbus, OH on the low end but eliminates places like Aurora, IL, as they would be suburban in nature.

"Suburban" is any county that is part of a metro area involving a city of 200,000 or above, with that state's "map author" left to his/her own discretion as to what qualifies as exurban/possibly rural on the outer edges.

"Mid-Sized City" is a county with a city above 100,000 but less than 200,000, and the counties that its "suburbs" are in (assuming it is not a suburb itself) would likely be considered exurban or rural.

"Small City" would be a city above 50,000 but less than 100,000, and the counties that might be a part of its metro are almost certainly also "Small City" counties or are rural.

Anything less would be considered rural, deferring to the map author's perceived exceptions ... after all, the subjectivity is what would make this useful.  Again, these would be guidelines, but people's actual knowledge of the area would trump these.

These seem fairly accurate, though like you said local knowledge should trump the guidelines. For example, under these rules Washoe County (Reno) would be "Urban", even though I have always thought of it as a "Mid-Sized City" type area. Though admittedly it has been a few years since I have lived in the area, so maybe my perception is outdated.

[Del Tachi]

Here's an initial crack a Mississippi based loosely on RINO Tom's categories and a heaping amount of local discretion.

Purple - Urban, Light Purple - Suburb, Dark Blue - Large City, Powder Blue - Small City, Pale - Rural.

The two suburban counties located in the north and south of the state are associated with Memphis and New Orleans, respectively.

[Tekken_Guy]

NJ:

Urban: Hudson
Urban/Suburban: Bergen, Camden, Essex, Mercer, Middlesex, Passaic, Union
Suburban/Rural: Atlantic, Burlington, Gloucester, Monmouth, Morris, Ocean, Somerset
Rural: Cape May, Cumberland, Hunterdon, Salem, Sussex, Warren

NY:

Urban: Bronx, Kings/Brooklyn, New York/Manhattan, Queens
"Small City": Albany, Broome, Erie, Monroe, Oneida, Onondaga
Suburban: Nassau, Niagara, Rensselaer, Richmond/Staten, Rockland, Schenectady, Suffolk, Westchester
Rural: Everything else

[muon2]

I think a good breakdown would be something like,

"Urban" is a county with an ANCHOR city of 200,000 or above ... that would include places like Rochester, NY and Columbus, OH on the low end but eliminates places like Aurora, IL, as they would be suburban in nature.

That's a subtle distinction. Columbus OH is the 15th largest city in the US based on 2015 estimates and has over 850K people - not really the low end. Rochester NY has 209.8K (#105 in the US) and is virtually indistinguishable in pop from Aurora IL at 200.7K (#114). Density doesn't work very well either since newer sprawling cities like Houston and Phoenix are quite low. Aurora is an old urban factory town and has about the same density as Portland OR or Norfolk VA. It also has newer suburban subdivisions on its outskirts, but within its corporate limits as do many cities that weren't locked in by other communities.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

NY:

Urban: Bronx, Kings/Brooklyn, New York/Manhattan, Queens
"Small City": Albany, Broome, Erie, Monroe, Oneida, Onondaga
Suburban: Nassau, Niagara, Rensselaer, Richmond/Staten, Rockland, Schenectady, Suffolk, Westchester
Rural: Everything else

I think parts of Saratoga would count as suburban. I'd consider Dutchess small-city and several of your small-city counties urban. My criteria for something being a "big" city are evidently a lot less stringent than all you city slickers'.

Massachusetts, done on a resolutely impressionistic and "way of life"-oriented basis:

Urban: Suffolk, Norfolk, Bristol, Hampden
Urban or suburban: Middlesex
Suburban: Essex, Plymouth, Worcester
Small-city: Barnstable, Hampshire, Berkshire
Rural: Franklin, Dukes, Nantucket

[Tekken_Guy]

Here's my take on it.

"Big city" counties: San Francisco CA, Denver CO, Duval FL, Jefferson KY, Orleans LA, Suffolk MA, New York NY, Multnomah OR, Philadelphia PA, Davidson TN, Arlington VA
"Big city"/Suburban counties: Jefferson AL, Maricopa AZ, Los Angeles CA, Sacramento CA, San Diego CA, Hillsborough FL, Miami-Dade FL, Fulton GA, Cook IL, Marion IN, Wayne MI, Hennepin MN, Jackson MO, Guilford NC, Mecklenburg NC, Wake NC, Clark NV, Cuyahoga OH, Franklin OH, Hamilton OH, Oklahoma OK, Tulsa OK, Allegheny PA, Shelby TN, Bexar TX, Dallas TX, Harris TX, Travis TX, King WA, Milwaukee WI
"Urban suburb" counties: DeKalb GA, Ramsey MN, Hudson NJ, Durham NC
"Middle suburb" counties: Alameda CA, Contra Costa CA, Orange CA, Riverside CA, San Bernardino CA, San Mateo CA, Santa Clara CA, Adams CO, Arapahoe CO, Jefferson CO, Fairfield CT, New Castle DE, Broward FL, Palm Beach FL, Pinellas FL, Cobb GA, Gwinnett GA, DuPage IL, Lake IL, Will IL, Johnson KS, Jefferson LA, Middlesex MA, Baltimore MD, Montgomery MD, Macomb MI, Oakland MI, Dakota MN, St. Louis MO, Bergen NJ, Camden NJ, Essex NJ, Middlesex NJ, Nassau NY, Westchester NY, Clackamas OR, Washington OR, Bucks PA, Chester PA, Delaware PA, Montgomery PA, Collin TX, Denton TX, Tarrant TX, Fairfax VA, Henrico VA, Pierce WA, Snohomish WA, Waukesha WI
"Exurb" counties: Douglas CO, Monroe FL, Kane IL, McHenry IL, Hamlton IN, St. Tammany LA, St. Charles MO, Monmouth NJ, Butler OH, Delaware OH, Lake OH, Lorain OH, Warren OH, Rutherford TN, Williamson TN, Brazoria TX, Fort Bend TX, Montgomery TX, Prince William VA, Loudoun VA
"Mid-sized city" counties: Pulaski AR, San Joaquin CA, Leon FL, Chatham GA, Polk IA, Ada ID, Allen IN, Sedgwick KS, Kent MI, Douglas NE, Erie NY, Monroe NY, Onondaga NY, Lucas OH, Montgomery OH, Summit OH, Berks PA, Lackawanna PA, Lehigh PA, Luzerne PA, Northampton PA, Charleston NC, Greenville SC, Richland SC, Amarillo TX, Nueces TX, Potter TX, Spokane WA

[publicunofficial]

I'd have trouble with categorizing Washington. I mean, take King County which shifts from densely urban to suburban to Twin Peaks land as you travel east.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

Likewise in Tennessee, Davidson and Shelby Counties (Nashville and Memphis) are not exclusively urban.  In fact, earlier today, I was in a part of Davidson County that felt exurban or even semi-rural.

But, as best as I can try:

Urban (City >200,000): Davidson, Shelby
Mid-Sized City: Knox, Hamilton, Montgomery
Suburban: Williamson, Rutherford (depends on whether you classify Murfreesboro as a suburb of Nashville or a mid-size city, but I'd lean towards calling it a suburb), Cheatham, Wilson, Sumner, Dickson, Tipton, Fayette, Blount, Loudon (I could be more off on Knoxville/Memphis than Nashville)
Small City: Madison, Washington, Carter, Sullivan, Johnson, Putnam

[Adam Griffin]

Here's one question: can a county be "suburban" without having any obvious urban anchor? Can a county be suburban despite having no obvious urban county influencing its development, but having characteristics of most suburban counties (direct road/transit connections, relatively high population density, lots of commercial activity, etc)?