Globalization or Nationalism?

[OSR stands with Israel]

Globalization, in every parameter.

even in having International Law override National Law. Heck no on that

[Vosem]

Nationalism is not altogether useless, and globalization is not altogether a positive force, but in terms of a guiding ideology for a country or people striving for more globalization -- fair competition across all borders, easy immigration for those from similar cultures -- is clearly virtually always better.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Nationalism is not altogether useless, and globalization is not altogether a positive force, but in terms of a guiding ideology for a country or people striving for more globalization -- fair competition across all borders, easy immigration for those from similar cultures -- is clearly virtually always better.

Why the clarifier? Such has obviously not been the result (we can debate whether or not those from different cultures easily assimilate, but it's obvious that we're drawing cultures from an extensive array of different backgrounds into physical proximity).

[Vosem]

Nationalism is not altogether useless, and globalization is not altogether a positive force, but in terms of a guiding ideology for a country or people striving for more globalization -- fair competition across all borders, easy immigration for those from similar cultures -- is clearly virtually always better.

Why the clarifier? Such has obviously not been the result (we can debate whether or not those from different cultures easily assimilate, but it's obvious that we're drawing cultures from an extensive array of different backgrounds into physical proximity).

It obviously hasn't been the result and I think the result of large-scale immigration from cultures that don't assimilate well (Middle Easterners and North Africans, basically) has gone very poorly, especially in comparison to numerous other places (Latin America/East Asia/Eastern Europe) from where it tends not to be as problematic. In general, a melting pot is good, but things have to be able to melt.

Take a very broad definition of "similar". Basically "not extremely radically dissimilar".

[Mad Deadly Worldwide Communist Gangster Computer God]

Civic nationalism.

[Kingpoleon]

There needs to be a balance between globalization and civic nationalism, lest all nations be smitten for "the good of the world."

[Santander]

Blocism

Christendom must stand united.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     These are two really broad categories. I place great value on national sovereignty and political self-determination, so that would put me on the nationalist side of the coin.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Other countries don't seem to understand inalienable rights, so nationalism as an American is much better.

[RINO Tom]

Supporting one or the other in "every parameter" (as was said earlier) makes no sense to me.  I would probably (very broadly) describe myself as sympathetic to economic globalization and cultural nationalism.  I totally get and empathize with nations who are concerned with protecting their culture and preserving their traditions, institutions, language, etc. (NOTE: this stops oh-so-short of racism and anti-immigration sentiment; those are unacceptable and give a unjustly horrible name to people who are simply proud of where they are from and look to preserve their heritage, which should include welcoming new immigrants into that shared heritage).

[Goldwater]

Globalization, in every parameter.

even in having International Law override National Law. Heck no on that

Not in every instance, but yes there are certainty cases where international law should override national law, such as when that national law is a blatant violation of people's rights. I will admit that "in every parameter" might be a bit of hyperbolic frustration on my part, but I still stand pretty firmly on the side of globalization, in both economic and non-economic matters.

[The_Doctor]

Nationalism is not altogether useless, and globalization is not altogether a positive force, but in terms of a guiding ideology for a country or people striving for more globalization -- fair competition across all borders, easy immigration for those from similar cultures -- is clearly virtually always better.

I would be less easy on immigration but otherwise, this.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

Civic nationalism

[Cashew]

Ideally more "globalization" would be a good thing, however it must be obstructed and opposed in it's current form.

[Antonio the Sixth]

omg the results right now are 66.1% to 33.9%

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

omg the results right now are 66.1% to 33.9%

I mean I, at minimum, am a nationalism/macron supporter.

[RINO Tom]

I also think it's funny that a lot of the gronola-type liberals here in Iowa City who might belittle someone who has a nationalistic/protectionist outlook on the American economy walk around wearing stupid little "Shop Local" buttons for Iowa City, LOL.

[Santander]

I also think it's funny that a lot of the gronola-type liberals here in Iowa City who might belittle someone who has a nationalistic/protectionist outlook on the American economy walk around wearing stupid little "Shop Local" buttons for Iowa City, LOL.

There is a difference between protectionism and consciously choosing to buy local goods or buy from local businesses.

I usually only wear American-made clothes (except a few British or Italian things here and there like ties and socks), but that does not mean I want to raise tariffs on imported clothes.

[RINO Tom]

I also think it's funny that a lot of the gronola-type liberals here in Iowa City who might belittle someone who has a nationalistic/protectionist outlook on the American economy walk around wearing stupid little "Shop Local" buttons for Iowa City, LOL.

There is a difference between protectionism and consciously choosing to buy local goods or buy from local businesses.

I usually only wear American-made clothes (except a few British or Italian things here and there like ties and socks), but that does not mean I want to raise tariffs on imported clothes.

But most of these people aren't looking down upon the merits behind economic protectionism; they're ridiculing people for having a "jingoy" patriotism that they see as beneath them.  The irony is that they have the same sense of pride in their local community that many have in their country, and a lot of the arguments undercutting others' patriotism can be applied just as easily to their local pride.

[Santander]

But most of these people aren't looking down upon the merits behind economic protectionism; they're ridiculing people for having a "jingoy" patriotism that they see as beneath them.  The irony is that they have the same sense of pride in their local community that many have in their country, and a lot of the arguments undercutting others' patriotism can be applied just as easily to their local pride.

Okay, no arguments with that.

[parochial boy]

Civic nationalism.

No such thing, every nationalism has some sort of ethnic identity at its heart - there is always some ideal placed around shared culture, symbolism, historical mythology. Sure, nationalisms can be more or less inclusive, but at the end of the day, they always revolve around something resembling ethncity.

[RINO Tom]

Civic nationalism.

No such thing, every nationalism has some sort of ethnic identity at its heart - there is always some ideal placed around shared culture, symbolism, historical mythology. Sure, nationalisms can be more or less inclusive, but at the end of the day, they always revolve around something resembling ethncity.

Most dictionary definitions of "ethnic" tend to include some type of racial or tribal component, so I think there IS merit in distinguishing "civic" nationalism.  One can be very nationalistic about American culture (maybe our individualist spirit that values liberty and Western liberal democracy that goes back to the Founding Fathers?), symbolism (the flag?), historical mythology (the more fantastic elements of the American Revolution?), etc. and still totally reject the idea that a White American or American of European ancestry (as most "original" Americans were) is any more "American" than a first generation Latino American who totally buys into those cultural, symbolic and mythological components.

[SATW]

I identify with Civic Nationalism in the U.S. and a mix of Jewish and Civic Nationalism in Israel.

I also strongly support globalization. I have been consistent on this as it was my single biggest criticism of Trump's economic policy.

[parochial boy]

Civic nationalism.

No such thing, every nationalism has some sort of ethnic identity at its heart - there is always some ideal placed around shared culture, symbolism, historical mythology. Sure, nationalisms can be more or less inclusive, but at the end of the day, they always revolve around something resembling ethncity.

Most dictionary definitions of "ethnic" tend to include some type of racial or tribal component, so I think there IS merit in distinguishing "civic" nationalism.  One can be very nationalistic about American culture (maybe our individualist spirit that values liberty and Western liberal democracy that goes back to the Founding Fathers?), symbolism (the flag?), historical mythology (the more fantastic elements of the American Revolution?), etc. and still totally reject the idea that a White American or American of European ancestry (as most "original" Americans were) is any more "American" than a first generation Latino American who totally buys into those cultural, symbolic and mythological components.

Well, I probably aren't going to explain it very well, but if we assume that "ethnic" requires some component of shared ancestry; what we mean by that is really hard to pin down.

Plenty of ethnic identities happen even without their necessarily being an actual shared ancestry, and even where there is, how specific do you get? Is European an ethnicity? British? Scottish? are they all ethnicities?

At the end of the day, both nationalism and ethnicity boil down to some perception of shared, let's say, "values" and identity.

But then, maybe I'm just a bit too postmodernist on this.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

'Civic Nationalism' is one of the classic Fried Snowballs of political rhetoric: parochial boy is spot on.