Is Poland a democratic country?
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  Is Poland a democratic country?
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Question: ??
#1
Yes
 
#2
No
 
#3
Women, weaker, smaller and less intelligent than men
 
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Author Topic: Is Poland a democratic country?  (Read 3067 times)
Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan
kataak
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« on: May 16, 2017, 01:28:53 PM »

After the lecture of comments on EurActiv and Politico Europe I just wonder what do you think.
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SATW
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« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2017, 02:31:44 PM »

Yes, it might be an increasingly illiberal one but it's still a democracy.
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Blue3
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« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2017, 02:48:31 PM »

Why wouldn't it be? I guess they're just going through a Trump-like phase too.
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Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan
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« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2017, 12:06:55 PM »

Someone voted no Sad
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DavidB.
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« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2017, 01:26:53 PM »

Yes (not hysterical)
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Beezer
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« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2017, 02:50:28 PM »

"This government does something I disagree with, therefore I think it is undemocratic."
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2017, 03:16:23 PM »

"This government does something I disagree with, therefore I think it is undemocratic."

What's that line about being able to tolerate everything but other opinions?
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The Govanah Jake
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« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2017, 01:25:05 PM »

Of course it still is.
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ApatheticAustrian
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« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2017, 08:07:48 PM »

Yes, it might be an increasingly illiberal one but it's still a democracy.
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angus
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« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2017, 11:51:36 AM »

Yes. 

Well, technically it is a parliamentary republic at the moment, but it has historically been the most democratic country in that part of the world for about a thousand years.  I think that has been its main problem.  Too much democracy made them easy targets for Germany, Russia, Austria, etc., over the past several centuries.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2017, 12:02:48 PM »

Yes, although the governing party's assault on constitutional institutions is troubling. Flawed democracy would be an appropriate term.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2017, 12:11:38 PM »

Yes. 

Well, technically it is a parliamentary republic at the moment, but it has historically been the most democratic country in that part of the world for about a thousand years.  I think that has been its main problem.  Too much democracy made them easy targets for Germany, Russia, Austria, etc., over the past several centuries.

It's interesting (and from my national point of view, depressing) how diffrently the two European countries with early parliamentary system (England and Poland-Lithuania) evolved.
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« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2017, 12:50:15 PM »

Yes, although the complete lack of viable left-of-center options means that rotation in office is perhaps less meaningful than in other democracies.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2017, 01:20:15 PM »

Yes, although the complete lack of viable left-of-center options means that rotation in office is perhaps less meaningful than in other democracies.

To be fair, this can be applied, to a lesser extend, to, let's say, Ireland.
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Santander
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« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2017, 01:21:06 PM »

Yes, although the complete lack of viable left-of-center options means that rotation in office is perhaps less meaningful than in other democracies.
Hillary was center-right.
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Vosem
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« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2017, 02:16:05 PM »

Poland is clearly a democratic country, and although some actions taken by the present governing party seem to indicate they don't have much respect for democratic principles, it's clear that there is still democratic competition (see polling suggesting that Donald Tusk, the bete noire of the present government, is the likeliest winner of the 2020 presidential election) and the country is still a democratic one at a fundamental level. This is particularly weird behavior from PiS since they really weren't like this when they had power 10 years ago and a lot of their leadership has remained the same -- I'd be interested to hear one of our Polish posters explain how and why the party has evolved.

Hungary, on the other hand, is perhaps a more arguable case.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2017, 02:20:07 PM »

Hungary, on the other hand, is perhaps a more arguable case.
No, Hungary is still unambiguously a democracy. However, it's shifting away from liberal democracy.
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ApatheticAustrian
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« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2017, 02:22:16 PM »

Yes. 

Well, technically it is a parliamentary republic at the moment, but it has historically been the most democratic country in that part of the world for about a thousand years.  I think that has been its main problem.  Too much democracy made them easy targets for Germany, Russia, Austria, etc., over the past several centuries.

It's interesting (and from my national point of view, depressing) how diffrently the two European countries with early parliamentary system (England and Poland-Lithuania) evolved.


being an island and being "sandwiched" between two reactionary super-powers tends to do that.

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ApatheticAustrian
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« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2017, 02:25:07 PM »

Yes, although the complete lack of viable left-of-center options means that rotation in office is perhaps less meaningful than in other democracies.

believe me, the difference between the former government and the new government totally resembles the new global opposites of liberalism vs authoritarism....enough choice for me. Wink
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parochial boy
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« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2017, 02:33:12 PM »

Hungary, on the other hand, is perhaps a more arguable case.
No, Hungary is still unambiguously a democracy. However, it's shifting away from liberal democracy.

Can you have democracy without all that being a "liberal" democracy implies? (ie free media, right to protest and associate, rights and protections for minorities, rule of law...)
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Vosem
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« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2017, 02:34:22 PM »

Hungary, on the other hand, is perhaps a more arguable case.
No, Hungary is still unambiguously a democracy. However, it's shifting away from liberal democracy.

Hungary, at least in my understanding, has a large governing party which has very strong ties and control over the media and whose two main opponents are an opposition that has been utterly discredited and is incapable of winning, along with a literal neo-Nazi party. I don't know what the situation is on the local level, or how much democracy there might be there, but that really doesn't seem healthy.

"The opposition that can defeat the government doesn't exist" and "the government has very strong ties to the media" aren't necessarily crises in and of themselves (Chretien-era Canada and Berlusconi-era Italy were both clearly democracies, for instance), but put together it seems rather difficult to suggest plausibly how Hungarians might rid themselves of their current government, even if the mechanisms exist on paper. That situation is reminiscent of, say, Chavez-era Venezuela.

I'd also say "illiberal democracy" (which I think is a phrase Orban uses) is a contradiction in terms. You can have dictatorship with democratic elements, but it isn't really democracy.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2017, 02:38:34 PM »

Yes. 

Well, technically it is a parliamentary republic at the moment, but it has historically been the most democratic country in that part of the world for about a thousand years.  I think that has been its main problem.  Too much democracy made them easy targets for Germany, Russia, Austria, etc., over the past several centuries.

It's interesting (and from my national point of view, depressing) how diffrently the two European countries with early parliamentary system (England and Poland-Lithuania) evolved.


being an island and being "sandwiched" between two reactionary super-powers tends to do that.



Except at the time I've mentioned Brandenburg/Prussia was a minor German state and Russia used to be a favorite target for Polish-Lithuanian interventions. What you are refeering too came later, because we f**ked up our status as a major power.
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Nathan
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« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2017, 10:04:35 PM »

Yes. 

Well, technically it is a parliamentary republic at the moment, but it has historically been the most democratic country in that part of the world for about a thousand years.  I think that has been its main problem.  Too much democracy made them easy targets for Germany, Russia, Austria, etc., over the past several centuries.

It's interesting (and from my national point of view, depressing) how diffrently the two European countries with early parliamentary system (England and Poland-Lithuania) evolved.


being an island and being "sandwiched" between two reactionary super-powers tends to do that.



Except at the time I've mentioned Brandenburg/Prussia was a minor German state and Russia used to be a favorite target for Polish-Lithuanian interventions. What you are refeering too came later, because we f**ked up our status as a major power.

Hell, didn't the Duchy of Prussia start out as a Polish-Lithuanian tributary?
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2017, 05:12:59 AM »
« Edited: May 31, 2017, 05:16:51 AM by Modern Major General »

Yes.  

Well, technically it is a parliamentary republic at the moment, but it has historically been the most democratic country in that part of the world for about a thousand years.  I think that has been its main problem.  Too much democracy made them easy targets for Germany, Russia, Austria, etc., over the past several centuries.

It's interesting (and from my national point of view, depressing) how differently the two European countries with early parliamentary system (England and Poland-Lithuania) evolved.


being an island and being "sandwiched" between two reactionary super-powers tends to do that.



Except at the time I've mentioned Brandenburg/Prussia was a minor German state and Russia used to be a favorite target for Polish-Lithuanian interventions. What you are refeering too came later, because we f**ked up our status as a major power.

Hell, didn't the Duchy of Prussia start out as a Polish-Lithuanian tributary?

Man, that's like the best irony ever. We must remember, though, that until Napoleonic times Prussia and Brandenburg, although ruled as one, were legally distinct entities (the former starting out as a tributary duchy-turned sovereign duchy-turned partially recognized kingdom, with the latter part of the HRE). I'm pretty sure that without the two ending up in a personal union, the history would be somewhat diffrent, with Prussia never becoming so strong.

Frederick I was able to promote himself to King thanks to the Duchy, which as mentioned was not a part of the HRE (where only King allowed was that of Bohemia). But because the Polish monarch was already "King of Prussia" (Royal Prussia), he had to name himself "King in Prussia".
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2017, 05:19:19 AM »

Btw, it's all started because this guy was too lazy to conquer Pagan Prussia himself and asked Teutonic Knights to come over.
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