2017 Virginia HoD Thread

[The Other Castro]

We could realistically see anything from 49-51 to 51-49 Democratic control at this point. Fun stuff.

[SoLongAtlas]

Posted in the other thread but relevant:

“Welcome to Venezuela,” Findlay (Executive Director for the RPV)said afterward. “This is how elections happen in Venezuela, Soviet Russia and now the commonwealth of Virginia. We don’t like the winners, we’re gonna have a new election.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/va-holds-off-certifying-tight-house-race-amid-new-claims-of-ballot-mix-ups/2017/11/20/780bf2a6-ce12-11e7-9d3a-bcbe2af58c3a_story.html

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Also, a background on Cole (district affected by the misassigned ballot screwup) includes bathroom bills and anti-"Mark of the Beast" human implant bills.

[junior chįmp]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Are we sure that these are all Democrats' votes?

But I was told it was always Democrats who steal close elections.

ACORN!

Look, how about we all just admit that both sides do it and move on?

Nothing wrong with stealing elections if you can get away it. Only problem with Democrats is they decided to act all ethical after 2000

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Results are being certified today. Litigation/Recounts Likely in 28th, 40th, 94th house districts. HoD at 49 D 48 R pending final result of three aforementioned districts.

https://patch.com/virginia/fredericksburg/virginia-house-delegates-control-flux

[Nyvin]

Posted in the other thread but relevant:

“Welcome to Venezuela,” Findlay (Executive Director for the RPV)said afterward. “This is how elections happen in Venezuela, Soviet Russia and now the commonwealth of Virginia. We don’t like the winners, we’re gonna have a new election.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/va-holds-off-certifying-tight-house-race-amid-new-claims-of-ballot-mix-ups/2017/11/20/780bf2a6-ce12-11e7-9d3a-bcbe2af58c3a_story.html

--

Also, a background on Cole (district affected by the misassigned ballot screwup) includes bathroom bills and anti-"Mark of the Beast" human implant bills.

I'm sure he feels the same way about the recall elections in Nevada....

[UncleSam]

Posted in the other thread but relevant:

“Welcome to Venezuela,” Findlay (Executive Director for the RPV)said afterward. “This is how elections happen in Venezuela, Soviet Russia and now the commonwealth of Virginia. We don’t like the winners, we’re gonna have a new election.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/va-holds-off-certifying-tight-house-race-amid-new-claims-of-ballot-mix-ups/2017/11/20/780bf2a6-ce12-11e7-9d3a-bcbe2af58c3a_story.html

--

Also, a background on Cole (district affected by the misassigned ballot screwup) includes bathroom bills and anti-"Mark of the Beast" human implant bills.

I'm sure he feels the same way about the recall elections in Nevada....

I don't see how the situations are comparable. One is attempting to institute a re-do election by invalidating the existence of the regularly scheduled election, while one is acknowledging the legitimacy both of the regularly scheduled election as well as of the recall laws in Nevada specifying that with a certain number of signatures recall elections can be triggered.

Like aren't the Nevada recall attempts very similar to what happened with Scott Walker in Wisconsin?

[Nyvin]

Posted in the other thread but relevant:

“Welcome to Venezuela,” Findlay (Executive Director for the RPV)said afterward. “This is how elections happen in Venezuela, Soviet Russia and now the commonwealth of Virginia. We don’t like the winners, we’re gonna have a new election.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/va-holds-off-certifying-tight-house-race-amid-new-claims-of-ballot-mix-ups/2017/11/20/780bf2a6-ce12-11e7-9d3a-bcbe2af58c3a_story.html

--

Also, a background on Cole (district affected by the misassigned ballot screwup) includes bathroom bills and anti-"Mark of the Beast" human implant bills.

I'm sure he feels the same way about the recall elections in Nevada....

I don't see how the situations are comparable. One is attempting to institute a re-do election by invalidating the existence of the regularly scheduled election, while one is acknowledging the legitimacy both of the regularly scheduled election as well as of the recall laws in Nevada specifying that with a certain number of signatures recall elections can be triggered.

Like aren't the Nevada recall attempts very similar to what happened with Scott Walker in Wisconsin?

What you described, verbatim, is almost exactly what the RPV guy described in his speech about not liking the election results so they have a new election.   How is that not exactly what is happening in Nevada?

[UncleSam]

Posted in the other thread but relevant:

“Welcome to Venezuela,” Findlay (Executive Director for the RPV)said afterward. “This is how elections happen in Venezuela, Soviet Russia and now the commonwealth of Virginia. We don’t like the winners, we’re gonna have a new election.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/va-holds-off-certifying-tight-house-race-amid-new-claims-of-ballot-mix-ups/2017/11/20/780bf2a6-ce12-11e7-9d3a-bcbe2af58c3a_story.html

--

Also, a background on Cole (district affected by the misassigned ballot screwup) includes bathroom bills and anti-"Mark of the Beast" human implant bills.

I'm sure he feels the same way about the recall elections in Nevada....

I don't see how the situations are comparable. One is attempting to institute a re-do election by invalidating the existence of the regularly scheduled election, while one is acknowledging the legitimacy both of the regularly scheduled election as well as of the recall laws in Nevada specifying that with a certain number of signatures recall elections can be triggered.

Like aren't the Nevada recall attempts very similar to what happened with Scott Walker in Wisconsin?

What you described, verbatim, is almost exactly what the RPV guy described in his speech about not liking the election results so they have a new election.   How is that not exactly what is happening in Nevada?

No, it isn't.

Having a new election after a significant period of time and a legal recall process is far different from attempting to delegitimize an election, block its' certification, and hold a new one. For starters, one option is allowed in most states, while the other is a tool generally employed by authoritarian governments.

Again, the Nevada recall elections are different from the Scott Walker case how? The Virginia elections are analogous to either how?

[Nyvin]

Posted in the other thread but relevant:

“Welcome to Venezuela,” Findlay (Executive Director for the RPV)said afterward. “This is how elections happen in Venezuela, Soviet Russia and now the commonwealth of Virginia. We don’t like the winners, we’re gonna have a new election.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/va-holds-off-certifying-tight-house-race-amid-new-claims-of-ballot-mix-ups/2017/11/20/780bf2a6-ce12-11e7-9d3a-bcbe2af58c3a_story.html

--

Also, a background on Cole (district affected by the misassigned ballot screwup) includes bathroom bills and anti-"Mark of the Beast" human implant bills.

I'm sure he feels the same way about the recall elections in Nevada....

I don't see how the situations are comparable. One is attempting to institute a re-do election by invalidating the existence of the regularly scheduled election, while one is acknowledging the legitimacy both of the regularly scheduled election as well as of the recall laws in Nevada specifying that with a certain number of signatures recall elections can be triggered.

Like aren't the Nevada recall attempts very similar to what happened with Scott Walker in Wisconsin?

What you described, verbatim, is almost exactly what the RPV guy described in his speech about not liking the election results so they have a new election.   How is that not exactly what is happening in Nevada?

No, it isn't.

Having a new election after a significant period of time and a legal recall process is far different from attempting to delegitimize an election, block its' certification, and hold a new one. For starters, one option is allowed in most states, while the other is a tool generally employed by authoritarian governments.

Again, the Nevada recall elections are different from the Scott Walker case how? The Virginia elections are analogous to either how?

I never mentioned Scott Walker.   It's the RPV guy calling out do overs for elections.   I think recalls of any kind should be done away with unless there's a legit felony going on.

If anything I find the Virginia case to be more legit due to the Nov election having flaws discovered about it and the results still not being certified, while in Nevada they're literally just doing the recall because "we don't like them" and nothing else, while the election has already been certified as valid.

[Virginiá]

No, it isn't.

Having a new election after a significant period of time and a legal recall process is far different from attempting to delegitimize an election, block its' certification, and hold a new one. For starters, one option is allowed in most states, while the other is a tool generally employed by authoritarian governments.

Again, the Nevada recall elections are different from the Scott Walker case how? The Virginia elections are analogous to either how?

1. Screwing up who gets a ballot relevant to their district to the tune of 120+ voters where the margin of victory was less than 100 votes does seem like an adequate reason to hold a special election for the seat, even if only on the fringes of what would be acceptable. If the number of people who received the wrong ballot was less than the winning margin of the victor, then no, since it wouldn't make a difference in the winner, it wouldn't be ok, even if it is wrong of the state to screw that up in the first place.

But if you disagree, and think that regardless of the people who got the wrong ballots, the election should stand, where is your threshold? How many people would have to get the wrong ballot for you to say a new election must be held?

2. With Regards to Nevada, what is a significant amount of time to you? Nicole Cannizzaro and Joyce Woodhouse were up in 2016, and Republicans failed to unseat them, and now are seeking a redo just a year later, even despite the fact that Republicans control the Governors office, and thus there is less tangible reasons to want to recall these Democrats, as Democrats haven't been able to run buck wild passing all sorts of legislation they want. This is slightly different as opposed to Walker, who had a unified Republican government after 2012 (read below on my thoughts on Walker's recall)

Given current rules, there is probably a justifiable reason to want to recall Patricia Farley, who defected from Republicans, thus undermining the will of the voters who put her in office in 2014. However, she isn't even running again in 2018, so this kind of seems pointless.

Personally, I don't think recall elections should be abused like this. They should be limited to instances of corruption, gross impropriety or other major issues of the sort. Republicans are blatantly using this to as a partisan play to gain some seats. It would be pretty sad for political parties to turn to recalls immediately after an election just because they are upset with the results. I forget exactly what Walker did, and I would support recalling any politician over something like gerrymandering (as I consider that a form of corruption and/or election rigging), but passing anti-union legislation isn't grounds for a recall. So I would concede that wasn't right. To that effect, I hope Nevada's recall process is changed ASAP to prevent further abuse by either party. This is not the right way to handle losing general elections, and it sets a bad precedent.

[UncleSam]

No, it isn't.

Having a new election after a significant period of time and a legal recall process is far different from attempting to delegitimize an election, block its' certification, and hold a new one. For starters, one option is allowed in most states, while the other is a tool generally employed by authoritarian governments.

Again, the Nevada recall elections are different from the Scott Walker case how? The Virginia elections are analogous to either how?

1. Screwing up who gets a ballot relevant to their district to the tune of 120+ voters where the margin of victory was less than 100 votes does seem like an adequate reason to hold a special election for the seat, even if only on the fringes of what would be acceptable. If the number of people who received the wrong ballot was less than the winning margin of the victor, then no, since it wouldn't make a difference in the winner, it wouldn't be ok, even if it is wrong of the state to screw that up in the first place.

But if you disagree, and think that regardless of the people who got the wrong ballots, the election should stand, where is your threshold? How many people would have to get the wrong ballot for you to say a new election must be held?

2. With Regards to Nevada, what is a significant amount of time to you? Nicole Cannizzaro and Joyce Woodhouse were up in 2016, and Republicans failed to unseat them, and now are seeking a redo just a year later, even despite the fact that Republicans control the Governors office, and thus there is less tangible reasons to want to recall these Democrats, as Democrats haven't been able to run buck wild passing all sorts of legislation they want. This is slightly different as opposed to Walker, who had a unified Republican government after 2012 (read below on my thoughts on Walker's recall)

Given current rules, there is probably a justifiable reason to want to recall Patricia Farley, who defected from Republicans, thus undermining the will of the voters who put her in office in 2014. However, she isn't even running again in 2018, so this kind of seems pointless.

Personally, I don't think recall elections should be abused like this. They should be limited to instances of corruption, gross impropriety or other major issues of the sort. Republicans are blatantly using this to as a partisan play to gain some seats. It would be pretty sad for political parties to turn to recalls immediately after an election just because they are upset with the results. I forget exactly what Walker did, and I would support recalling any politician over something like gerrymandering (as I consider that a form of corruption and/or election rigging), but passing anti-union legislation isn't grounds for a recall. So I would concede that wasn't right. To that effect, I hope Nevada's recall process is changed ASAP to prevent further abuse by either party. This is not the right way to handle losing general elections, and it sets a bad precedent.

Ya I agree, recall elections are pretty terrible and I would like to see them banned. However, they are clearly legal and clearly not the same thing as trying to institute an immediate redo without validating the original election.

As for what to do with Virginia, there clearly is nothing to do. Some voters in each precinct probably voted in the wrong district and this is an excellent argument for why it ought to be illegal to split precincts. They can't determine who voted incorrectly so the election results are what they are. If it were a ten vote margin or something or there were thousands of votes left uncounted that would be one thing, but if it's a difference of 100~ votes of unknown content with an election margin of 80~ votes I'm perfectly comfortable saying that the correct winner was certified.

Obviously there needs to be reform though

[Keep cool-idge]

BREAKING News

Republican  Manoli Loupassi to request recount

https://mobile.twitter.com/gmoomaw/status/936393047163785216

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Thankfully the spread there is wide enough to make a change in outcome unlikely.

[Keep cool-idge]

Thankfully the spread there is wide enough to make a change in outcome unlikely.

I honestly thinks it’s a waste of money for a recount.

[Pragmatic Conservative]

Recounts for District 40 have been set for December 13-14 and District 28 for December 21. No other recocount dates have been set for now.

https://wtop.com/virginia/2017/12/prince-william-fairfax-co-house-recount-set-dec-13-14/

[heatcharger]

A bunch of Democrats trying to be populist heroes called for the new tolls on I-66 to be suspended.

Horrible. Congestion pricing is the way I-66 traffic gets better. Sad to see Democrats pander to people who work in D.C. but are too pretentious to take the Metro. I'm deeply disappointed in my Delegate-elect. Wulfric mode: I'll have revoke my endorsement of Jennifer Wexton until she stops these shenanigans.

[swf541]

A bunch of Democrats trying to be populist heroes called for the new tolls on I-66 to be suspended.

Horrible. Congestion pricing is the way I-66 traffic gets better. Sad to see Democrats pander to people who work in D.C. but are too pretentious to take the Metro. I'm deeply disappointed in my Delegate-elect. Wulfric mode: I'll have revoke my endorsement of Jennifer Wexton until she stops these shenanigans.

40$ fees are utterly ridiculous

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

A bunch of Democrats trying to be populist heroes called for the new tolls on I-66 to be suspended.

Horrible. Congestion pricing is the way I-66 traffic gets better. Sad to see Democrats pander to people who work in D.C. but are too pretentious to take the Metro. I'm deeply disappointed in my Delegate-elect. Wulfric mode: I'll have revoke my endorsement of Jennifer Wexton until she stops these shenanigans.

40$ fees are utterly ridiculous

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but $40 is crazy.

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

A bunch of Democrats trying to be populist heroes called for the new tolls on I-66 to be suspended.

Horrible. Congestion pricing is the way I-66 traffic gets better. Sad to see Democrats pander to people who work in D.C. but are too pretentious to take the Metro. I'm deeply disappointed in my Delegate-elect. Wulfric mode: I'll have revoke my endorsement of Jennifer Wexton until she stops these shenanigans.

40$ fees are utterly ridiculous

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but $40 is crazy.

Agreed.

[heatcharger]

A bunch of Democrats trying to be populist heroes called for the new tolls on I-66 to be suspended.

Horrible. Congestion pricing is the way I-66 traffic gets better. Sad to see Democrats pander to people who work in D.C. but are too pretentious to take the Metro. I'm deeply disappointed in my Delegate-elect. Wulfric mode: I'll have revoke my endorsement of Jennifer Wexton until she stops these shenanigans.

40$ fees are utterly ridiculous

That was only the price of them at peak congestion... in general they were lower. Here's the more important point: solo drivers were BANNED from I-66 inside the Beltway for decades! The amount of people truly affected by this negatively is smaller than you think. If you live in Virginia and work in DC, you were probably already taking the Metro or carpooling to take use the HOV lanes on I-66.

Also the tolls are operated by the state, not some private firm. All of the money is going directly back into I-66 improvements. Some people must think we should just have 14 lane-wide highways like they do in L.A so everyone can drive. Too bad!

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

A bunch of Democrats trying to be populist heroes called for the new tolls on I-66 to be suspended.

Horrible. Congestion pricing is the way I-66 traffic gets better. Sad to see Democrats pander to people who work in D.C. but are too pretentious to take the Metro. I'm deeply disappointed in my Delegate-elect. Wulfric mode: I'll have revoke my endorsement of Jennifer Wexton until she stops these shenanigans.

40$ fees are utterly ridiculous

That was only the price of them at peak congestion... in general they were lower. Here's the more important point: solo drivers were BANNED from I-66 inside the Beltway for decades! The amount of people truly affected by this negatively is smaller than you think. If you live in Virginia and work in DC, you were probably already taking the Metro or carpooling to take use the HOV lanes on I-66.

Also the tolls are operated by the state, not some private firm. All of the money is going directly back into I-66 improvements. Some people must think we should just have 14 lane-wide highways like they do in L.A so everyone can drive. Too bad!

Don't get me wrong, I don't really understand why anyone wouldn't just take the metro (speaking from personal experience, the D.C. metro really isn't even that bad at all...confusing at first, but you figure it out soon enough), but $40.00 is still ridiculous imo.

[International Brotherhood of Bernard]

A bunch of Democrats trying to be populist heroes called for the new tolls on I-66 to be suspended.

Horrible. Congestion pricing is the way I-66 traffic gets better. Sad to see Democrats pander to people who work in D.C. but are too pretentious to take the Metro. I'm deeply disappointed in my Delegate-elect. Wulfric mode: I'll have revoke my endorsement of Jennifer Wexton until she stops these shenanigans.

40$ fees are utterly ridiculous

That was only the price of them at peak congestion... in general they were lower. Here's the more important point: solo drivers were BANNED from I-66 inside the Beltway for decades! The amount of people truly affected by this negatively is smaller than you think. If you live in Virginia and work in DC, you were probably already taking the Metro or carpooling to take use the HOV lanes on I-66.

Also the tolls are operated by the state, not some private firm. All of the money is going directly back into I-66 improvements. Some people must think we should just have 14 lane-wide highways like they do in L.A so everyone can drive. Too bad!

Don't get me wrong, I don't really understand why anyone wouldn't just take the metro (speaking from personal experience, the D.C. metro really isn't even that bad at all...confusing at first, but you figure it out soon enough), but $40.00 is still ridiculous imo.

It was $40 the very first morning and has evened out since then. Right now from DC to the Beltway westbound the toll is $7.25. MAYBE refund the first morning but otherwise this is very good policy. Carpoolers still get access for free anyway.

[136or142]

A bunch of Democrats trying to be populist heroes called for the new tolls on I-66 to be suspended.

Horrible. Congestion pricing is the way I-66 traffic gets better. Sad to see Democrats pander to people who work in D.C. but are too pretentious to take the Metro. I'm deeply disappointed in my Delegate-elect. Wulfric mode: I'll have revoke my endorsement of Jennifer Wexton until she stops these shenanigans.

This is the same thing as when Uber had the same problem with peak pricing and, after a backlash, announced a maximum 'peak' price.

[SoLongAtlas]

A bunch of Democrats trying to be populist heroes called for the new tolls on I-66 to be suspended.

Horrible. Congestion pricing is the way I-66 traffic gets better. Sad to see Democrats pander to people who work in D.C. but are too pretentious to take the Metro. I'm deeply disappointed in my Delegate-elect. Wulfric mode: I'll have revoke my endorsement of Jennifer Wexton until she stops these shenanigans.

This is the same thing as when Uber had the same problem with peak pricing and, after a backlash, announced a maximum 'peak' price.

It's really not the same. It is a cap vs. amount of traffic based fee, the latter of which was the compromise in order to get the funding issue passed by McDonnell. The traffic here is horrendous and the population expected to almost double within 20 years. It is unsustainable. The issue re this was I-66 which is a faster (albeit not by much) route alternative to the back ways to get to Arlington or D.C. I-95 is not as bad but still pretty bad. It takes me an hour or more to drive 20 miles one way, twice a day, to and from work. I-95 also has a severe backup issue in that for 20 miles or so it takes 2.5 hours or more due to SEVERE backup heading into Fredericksburg. VA thinks this can be solved by adding EZPass lanes that get clogged up themselves on occasion due to the sheer number of drivers, accidents, etc. That EZPass section won't be finished until at least 2022.

The solution is lane expansion (being done), capped prices (not being done due to the need for funding expansion via other means, i.e., taxes, which the HoD won't go for), and rail extension which, naturally the downstate folks won't pay for because BIG GUBMINT, EVIL UNIONS (they are doing extensions of WMATA out to Dulles but that still has taken decades and it is still not finished.

In short, it is a massive political and infrastructure CLFK, and population growth here isn't helping. You have to live and drive in NoVA in order to understand it fully. If you don't you won't truly grasp it.

[GeorgiaModerate]

In short, it is a massive political and infrastructure CLFK, and population growth here isn't helping. You have to live and drive in NoVA in order to understand it fully. If you don't you won't truly grasp it.

Metro Atlanta sends our sympathies.