SA/A/D/SD

[Gabu]

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There was a little kid that was on the news a few months ago because he was interested in politics. And there are a lot of 18 year olds who aren't adequately informed on political issues either.

Okay, so the news decided to do a story on the 0.000001% of little kids who are actually interested in politics (note that "interested" does not necessarily translate into "informed").  How does this justify allowing the uninformed 99.999999% to vote?

Because all informed voters have the right to vote

You still have yet to justify that statement or state why we should do that (beyond simply stating "it's a fundamental right" with no explanation or justification given).  Letting in all informed voters below 18 (a very small group, relatively speaking) will also let in all uninformed voters below 18 (a much larger group), thoroughly negating the positive aspect of gaining a handful of new informed voters.

It's the same as a court system.  In a court, there are the "obviously guilty" and the "obviously innocent" (these are very few and far between), and then there's the middle ground.  It's impossible to separate these groups, and we don't (or at least, most don't) want to convict every single person - that would convinct a ton of innocent people - or let every single person go free - that would free a ton of guilty people.  Thus, we must establish some standard of judgement that minimizes both guilty people freed and innocent people convincted.

In the voting populace, it's the same deal.  There are the "obviously informed" and the "obviously uninformed" (again, these are very few and far between), and then there's the middle ground.  Again, here, unless we want to let everyone vote, which would result in a ton of uninformed people voting, or bar everyone from voting, which would result in a ton of informed people being barred from voting, we must establish some standard of judgement that minimizes both uninformed people being allowed to vote and informed people being barred from voting.

This is a basic concept from statistics.  Of course, you want to let everyone vote purely because it's allegedly "a fundamental right" (a statement which you have neither justified nor even defined), but I would prefer to minimize those two groups, so the above must apply.

[Hatman 🍁]

Well, Gabu- the difference between you (and most everyone else) and me is that you have something against uninformed people. I on the other hand, look past their misguidedness, and still want them to have the same priveleges as the rest of the citizenry.

[Gabu]

Well, Gabu- the difference between you (and most everyone else) and me is that you have something against uninformed people. I on the other hand, look past their misguidedness, and still want them to have the same priveleges as the rest of the citizenry.

I don't have anything against them as people.  I simply don't see why letting all the uninformed people under the sun would be beneficial to society.  I view democracy as a means to an end - the end is the betterment of everyone under the democracy - and I feel that letting everyone vote who has no idea what they're doing would not help democracy better the lives of the people under the democracy.

The fundamental question to which I can't see an answer is this: if the democracy does not make the people's lives better, what good is it?

[TeePee4Prez]

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.

A

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.

SA

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.

SD

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.

SD

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.

D

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.

A

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.

D

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.

A

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.

A

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.

A

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.

D

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.

A

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.

SD

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.

SD
15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.

A- to age 18

[RingDestruction]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

There was a little kid that was on the news a few months ago because he was interested in politics. And there are a lot of 18 year olds who aren't adequately informed on political issues either.

Okay, so the news decided to do a story on the 0.000001% of little kids who are actually interested in politics (note that "interested" does not necessarily translate into "informed").  How does this justify allowing the uninformed 99.999999% to vote?

He asked me a question and I answered it. I don't think people should have to wait until they are 18 to be able to vote. As long as they are informed about the election. I do think that the age to vote should be around 12, not 5.

[Gabu]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

There was a little kid that was on the news a few months ago because he was interested in politics. And there are a lot of 18 year olds who aren't adequately informed on political issues either.

Okay, so the news decided to do a story on the 0.000001% of little kids who are actually interested in politics (note that "interested" does not necessarily translate into "informed").  How does this justify allowing the uninformed 99.999999% to vote?

He asked me a question and I answered it. I don't think people should have to wait until they are 18 to be able to vote. As long as they are informed about the election. I do think that the age to vote should be around 12, not 5.

Well, why reduce it to only 12, and not to 5, if we want to let all informed people vote?

[jokerman]

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
SD

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.
A

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.
A

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.
SA

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.
D

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.
D

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.
D

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.
D

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.
D

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.
A

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.
A (illegal immigration more specifically, i don't have a big problem with legal immigration)

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.
A

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.
SD

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.
D

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.
D

[John Dibble]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

There was a little kid that was on the news a few months ago because he was interested in politics. And there are a lot of 18 year olds who aren't adequately informed on political issues either.

Okay, so the news decided to do a story on the 0.000001% of little kids who are actually interested in politics (note that "interested" does not necessarily translate into "informed").  How does this justify allowing the uninformed 99.999999% to vote?

He asked me a question and I answered it. I don't think people should have to wait until they are 18 to be able to vote. As long as they are informed about the election. I do think that the age to vote should be around 12, not 5.

Well, why reduce it to only 12, and not to 5, if we want to let all informed people vote?

Can anyone see the politicians pandering for the votes of little kids?

"If elected, I'll have ice cream served free with your school lunch!"
"Well if you elect me, I'll have cake served in class daily!"

[ilikeverin]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

There was a little kid that was on the news a few months ago because he was interested in politics. And there are a lot of 18 year olds who aren't adequately informed on political issues either.

Okay, so the news decided to do a story on the 0.000001% of little kids who are actually interested in politics (note that "interested" does not necessarily translate into "informed").  How does this justify allowing the uninformed 99.999999% to vote?

He asked me a question and I answered it. I don't think people should have to wait until they are 18 to be able to vote. As long as they are informed about the election. I do think that the age to vote should be around 12, not 5.

Well, why reduce it to only 12, and not to 5, if we want to let all informed people vote?

Can anyone see the politicians pandering for the votes of little kids?

"If elected, I'll have ice cream served free with your school lunch!"
"Well if you elect me, I'll have cake served in class daily!"

A big issue in my school in 2000 was that Gore supposedly wanted school uniforms

[Flying Dog]

 Strongly Agree
Agree
Disagree
Strongly Disagree

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.-Agree

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.-Agree

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.-Agree

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule.-Agree

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.agree

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government.-disagree

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.-disagree

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.-agree

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.-agree

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.-disagree

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces.-disagree

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.-disagree

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.-disagree

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.-disagree

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.-Strongly Disagree

[WiseGuy]

1.) Felons and those in jail should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.  Strongly Disagree.

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.  Strongly Disagree.

3.) In general, people are just too obsessed with sex.  Agree.

4.) We would all be a lot better off if people followed the Golden Rule. Strongly Agree.

5.) The government's main responsibility should be to keep order.  Strongly Agree.

6.) Music and the arts are essential for a community to flourish and should be funded by the government. Strongly Disagree. 

7.) The right to revolution in the New Hampshire state constitution is a good thing that all states should have.  Agree.

8.) Improvement of the human race through eugenics should be a goal of the government.  Strongly Disagree. Eugenics Wars, anyone?  *Is an obessed Trekie.

9.) A Department of Peace should be added to the presidential administration.  Strongly Disagree.

10.) The voting age should be lowered to 16.  Strongly Disagree.

11.) Immigration is one of the worst problems the United States faces. Agree.  Illegal Immigration is a problem, Legal Immigration isn't.

12.) The government should not have any business with people's library records, gun purchases, or credit card use.  Strongly Agree.

13.) Restrictions on cellphone wiretapping should be loosened.  Strongly Agree, but the people doing the taping should be required to prove that the person is a Terrorist/Criminal.  That should be the only restriction.

14.) Criticism of religions such as Christianity and Islam are not protected by free speech.  Strongly Disagree.

15.) The drinking age should be lowered or abolished.  Unsure.

[Ebowed]

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.  Strongly Disagree.

Why the hell not?  Someone screws up and they lose all of their rights even after they're out of jail?

[A18]

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. Strongly Disagree.

Why the hell not? Someone screws up and they lose all of their rights even after they're out of jail?

The right to apply the overwhelming, near invincible force of the state must be guarded carefully. I'm sorry, someone who raped a twelve year old shouldn't be voting to lower the age of consent or something.

[dazzleman]

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens.  Strongly Disagree.

Why the hell not?  Someone screws up and they lose all of their rights even after they're out of jail?

Exactly, if they screw up badly enough.  I see no reason to go easier on criminals.  They're already not punished nearly enough for their crimes, in my opinion.  There are many, many, many causes that would attract my support long before a cause to gratuitously benefit people who have committed serious crimes.

[Ebowed]

If you got every child molester to vote, lowering the age of consent would still fail miserably.

Anyway, someone who has served their jail sentence and repaid their debt to society should be able to vote.

[dazzleman]

If you got every child molester to vote, lowering the age of consent would still fail miserably.

Anyway, someone who has served their jail sentence and repaid their debt to society should be able to vote.

Can a murderer ever truly repay his debt to society?

Honestly, I probably could be brought around to supporting allowing ex-felons to vote a period of time after they are off parole, and haven't gotten into any additional trouble.  That would probably be very few of them.

But I just can't see this as an issue that I should care about.  I see no reason to gratuitously do something nice for criminals.  They are a scourge on society, and their prison terms are rarely anywhere near long enough, in my opinion.

And I doubt too many of them care about voting anyway.  Plus, if they vote, they'll vote Democratic (itself an indictment of the Democratic party).  So I see no reason to support it, while there are other unresolved problems in society.  This is right at the bottom of my list.

[A18]

Anyway, someone who has served their jail sentence and repaid their debt to society should be able to oppress others.

I disagree. I see oppression as a bad thing.

[WiseGuy]

2.) Ex-felons should have the same voting rights as all other citizens. Strongly Disagree.

Why the hell not? Someone screws up and they lose all of their rights even after they're out of jail?

Yes.  If they commited a crime they should pay the price.  All I see this as is an attempt to get votes by the Democratic Party.  I may consider changing my opinion if one Republican, even a moderate one, decides to support this, but for now, Hillary and you are not enough to convince me.

[Emsworth]

Yes.  If they commited a crime they should pay the price.  All I see this as is an attempt to get votes by the Democratic Party.  I may consider changing my opinion if one Republican, even a moderate one, decides to support this, but for now, Hillary and you are not enough to convince me.

Forgive me, but I find it rather difficult to fathom that you are so partisan as to support something only if some Republican does so.

[A18]

I think what he meant is that he'd then consider it, since it wouldn't be pure politics. Not that that makes sense either, but it's different from being hyper-partisan.

[Ebowed]

Yes.  If they commited a crime they should pay the price.  All I see this as is an attempt to get votes by the Democratic Party.  I may consider changing my opinion if one Republican, even a moderate one, decides to support this, but for now, Hillary and you are not enough to convince me.

We need to bring back that "Laughing Stock of Atlasia" title.  First of all, I see your attempt to sabotage the right to vote as a way to take away votes from the Democratic Party and to help the Republicans.  I didn't realize that Hillary and I were the only proponents of voting rights.  I believe that the state of Nebraska has restored voting rights to its ex felons, and Iowa is considering it.  Very liberal states, right?

[A18]

If the Democratic Party needs the votes of outlaws to win, the Democratic Party needs to be outlawed.

By the way, someone who actually thinks murderers in jail should be able to vote shouldn't be complaining about other people's views on voting rights.

[Ebowed]

If the Democratic Party needs the votes of outlaws to win, the Democratic Party needs to be outlawed.

Would you say the same thing if ex-felons leaned Republican?  How about in a close race?

By the way, someone who actually thinks murderers in jail should be able to vote shouldn't be complaining about other people's views on voting rights.

This isn't about felons, it's about ex-felons.

[A18]

Yes. I don't want murderers voting period. I don't care if they support my party or not, because I'm not a partisan hack.

An ex-felon is a felon.

[Ebowed]

I don't support letting ex felons vote because it will help the Democratic party; I support letting them vote because they're citizens.