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Author Topic: Death Penalty  (Read 23716 times)
jravnsbo
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« on: December 30, 2003, 12:08:36 pm »
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A board for death penalty discussions as we were getting off topic int he Guns forum.
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« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2003, 12:14:43 pm »
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Death penalty is hard to discuss. Either you believe that the government should have the right to kill it's own citizens in times of peace, or you don't. That's the dividing line and few people change their minds on that, I think death penalty is often used as an example of an issue where people have deeply held beliefs and are unlikely to change.
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« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2003, 12:42:56 pm »
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Death penalty is hard to discuss. Either you believe that the government should have the right to kill it's own citizens in times of peace, or you don't. That's the dividing line and few people change their minds on that, I think death penalty is often used as an example of an issue where people have deeply held beliefs and are unlikely to change.

I'm sure you mean by the right, after the person has commited a crime deserving of. Smiley

Well, yes, but it doesn't change the fundamental issue. The state decides whether a crime is horrible enough to warrant death, but that is a side issue, especially since the views there vary from country to country. In Nigeria women get executed by stoning for adultery. I don't think that is a crime that warrant death, but they do. So I think my definition holds.  
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jravnsbo
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« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2003, 12:44:06 pm »
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I blieve it is 37 states that have the death penalty now.  Plus the federal and military courts.

Juries must now recommend the sdeath sentence and usually the death penalty is given by an "Aggravating factor" rather than just a plain murder.


Death penalty is hard to discuss. Either you believe that the government should have the right to kill it's own citizens in times of peace, or you don't. That's the dividing line and few people change their minds on that, I think death penalty is often used as an example of an issue where people have deeply held beliefs and are unlikely to change.

I'm sure you mean by the right, after the person has commited a crime deserving of. Smiley
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2003, 12:59:56 pm »
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Just curious, but which ones?
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tweed
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« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2003, 01:11:24 pm »
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I am opposed to capital punishment in all cases.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2003, 01:27:22 pm »
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ditto
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Michael Z
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« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2003, 01:28:36 pm »
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I oppose the death penalty. I see no logical argument supporting it. Murder is immoral and despicable in any shape or form, whether sanctioned by an individual or by government. I'm much happier letting a murderer rot in jail. Besides, I'm yet to see any proof that the death penalty works as a deterrent.

Capital punishment effectively makes murderers out of government, the judicial system, and consequently society as a whole, which makes it totally self-defeatist. But obviously that's just my personal belief.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2003, 01:31:04 pm by Michael Zeigermann »Logged
tweed
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« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2003, 01:33:03 pm »
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See jravnsbo!  I'm not the only one.
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I wanna contribute to the chaos
I don't wanna watch and then complain,
'cause I am through finding blame
that is the decision that I have made
CHRISTOPHER MICHAE
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« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2003, 05:35:13 pm »

I oppose the death penalty. I see no logical argument supporting it. Murder is immoral and despicable in any shape or form, whether sanctioned by an individual or by government. I'm much happier letting a murderer rot in jail. Besides, I'm yet to see any proof that the death penalty works as a deterrent.

Capital punishment effectively makes murderers out of government, the judicial system, and consequently society as a whole, which makes it totally self-defeatist. But obviously that's just my personal belief.
What about the logical arument about the expense of keeping someone locked up for the rest of their natural life?
It would be nice to see all of the larger states impose a swift death penalty. Not put someone on death row until all appeals have been exhausted.
My proposal, if I were governor in a state that had the death penalty, would be to have an automatic, swift appeals process, whereby the Supreme Court no longer had to accept cases of that nature. Once original sentence is passed, the convict would be placed in a holding cell. Then a special appeals court would meet immediately following the verdict, prosecution and attorneys for both sides present, and then they can validate or invalidate the circuit court's ruling. Once validated, the prisoner is taken to the courtyard, tied and bound to a post and given one last cigarette/prayer to make things right with GOD, a chance to ask for frogiveness of the victims, and whatever other statement, then shoot em. Very painless, very quick, very justice served.
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migrendel
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« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2003, 07:03:15 pm »
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I think tying someone to a post outdoors and shooting them makes a spectacle out of something that could be performed in a semi-private venue with a more reliable method. Also, your idea of an appelate court gives very little time for both the petitioner and the respondent to formulate an argument. Christopher Michael, I am once again awestruck in horror at one of your ideas. While God was revealing to you that you'd be a conservative Democratic president, why didn't He tell you to lay off the whip and chains approach to criminal justice?
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Michael Z
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« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2003, 09:38:48 pm »
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I oppose the death penalty. I see no logical argument supporting it. Murder is immoral and despicable in any shape or form, whether sanctioned by an individual or by government. I'm much happier letting a murderer rot in jail. Besides, I'm yet to see any proof that the death penalty works as a deterrent.

Capital punishment effectively makes murderers out of government, the judicial system, and consequently society as a whole, which makes it totally self-defeatist. But obviously that's just my personal belief.
What about the logical arument about the expense of keeping someone locked up for the rest of their natural life?
It would be nice to see all of the larger states impose a swift death penalty. Not put someone on death row until all appeals have been exhausted.
My proposal, if I were governor in a state that had the death penalty, would be to have an automatic, swift appeals process, whereby the Supreme Court no longer had to accept cases of that nature. Once original sentence is passed, the convict would be placed in a holding cell. Then a special appeals court would meet immediately following the verdict, prosecution and attorneys for both sides present, and then they can validate or invalidate the circuit court's ruling. Once validated, the prisoner is taken to the courtyard, tied and bound to a post and given one last cigarette/prayer to make things right with GOD, a chance to ask for frogiveness of the victims, and whatever other statement, then shoot em. Very painless, very quick, very justice served.

And what if 10 or even 20 years afterwards evidence would surface that this person was innocent after all. Then you would have to face up to your God for having murdered an innocent man.
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CHRISTOPHER MICHAE
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« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2003, 10:01:38 pm »

I think tying someone to a post outdoors and shooting them makes a spectacle out of something that could be performed in a semi-private venue with a more reliable method. Also, your idea of an appelate court gives very little time for both the petitioner and the respondent to formulate an argument. Christopher Michael, I am once again awestruck in horror at one of your ideas. While God was revealing to you that you'd be a conservative Democratic president, why didn't He tell you to lay off the whip and chains approach to criminal justice?
What about the whip and chains approach upon the American Tax Payer? Also, Have you ever been a loved one to a victim of a horrendous bloody murder? I have, my favorite first cousin was cleaning up at the Pub where he worked at in Butte, Montana. There was a Jewelry Heist that had gone on right across the street from the Pub. He was shot to death 2 x in the chest and once in his back. So, before you make any accusations against me not having compassion for cold-blooded killers, think twice. Why am I a conservative democrat? On Moral/Social issues I am more Republican in nature. On Economic policy I am a Liberal Democrat. So, go blow your horn of Judgment elsewhere!
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migrendel
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« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2003, 10:36:49 am »
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That is precisely why you cannot be considered objective on this issue. You have a personal stake in the continuance of the death penalty, and this emotional factor obviously influences your opinion. I haven't suffered the pain of losing someone in a murder, so I can speak on this issue. While I realize retribution is on the mind of those left behind, I would advise them to consider its similarity to vengeance. Rather than swallowing themselves up in vengenace, they could always forgive and show mercy, for forgiveness and mercy are the highest attributes of the human soul.
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jravnsbo
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« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2003, 10:52:50 am »
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which ones, what?  states or aggravating factors?


Just curious, but which ones?
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jravnsbo
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« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2003, 10:54:05 am »
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Yes but still in the minority of Americans.  37 states have it and the fed and military systems have it.



See jravnsbo!  I'm not the only one.
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jravnsbo
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« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2003, 10:56:48 am »
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Well I don't think it should be immediate, as to safeguard the system somewhat.  But I do think DNA should be done during the trial and then automatic appeal straight to the state supreme court, skipping any court of appeals.

I like the VA method of running the fed and state appeals concurrently.


I oppose the death penalty. I see no logical argument supporting it. Murder is immoral and despicable in any shape or form, whether sanctioned by an individual or by government. I'm much happier letting a murderer rot in jail. Besides, I'm yet to see any proof that the death penalty works as a deterrent.

Capital punishment effectively makes murderers out of government, the judicial system, and consequently society as a whole, which makes it totally self-defeatist. But obviously that's just my personal belief.
What about the logical arument about the expense of keeping someone locked up for the rest of their natural life?
It would be nice to see all of the larger states impose a swift death penalty. Not put someone on death row until all appeals have been exhausted.
My proposal, if I were governor in a state that had the death penalty, would be to have an automatic, swift appeals process, whereby the Supreme Court no longer had to accept cases of that nature. Once original sentence is passed, the convict would be placed in a holding cell. Then a special appeals court would meet immediately following the verdict, prosecution and attorneys for both sides present, and then they can validate or invalidate the circuit court's ruling. Once validated, the prisoner is taken to the courtyard, tied and bound to a post and given one last cigarette/prayer to make things right with GOD, a chance to ask for frogiveness of the victims, and whatever other statement, then shoot em. Very painless, very quick, very justice served.
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Currently in Iraq, risking my butt to protect yours!

Republicans think every day is July 4, Democarts think every day is April 15
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jravnsbo
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« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2003, 10:58:05 am »
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sorry to hear about your loss.  That woiuld be very tramatic for anyone.

I think tying someone to a post outdoors and shooting them makes a spectacle out of something that could be performed in a semi-private venue with a more reliable method. Also, your idea of an appelate court gives very little time for both the petitioner and the respondent to formulate an argument. Christopher Michael, I am once again awestruck in horror at one of your ideas. While God was revealing to you that you'd be a conservative Democratic president, why didn't He tell you to lay off the whip and chains approach to criminal justice?
What about the whip and chains approach upon the American Tax Payer? Also, Have you ever been a loved one to a victim of a horrendous bloody murder? I have, my favorite first cousin was cleaning up at the Pub where he worked at in Butte, Montana. There was a Jewelry Heist that had gone on right across the street from the Pub. He was shot to death 2 x in the chest and once in his back. So, before you make any accusations against me not having compassion for cold-blooded killers, think twice. Why am I a conservative democrat? On Moral/Social issues I am more Republican in nature. On Economic policy I am a Liberal Democrat. So, go blow your horn of Judgment elsewhere!
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Republicans think every day is July 4, Democarts think every day is April 15
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jravnsbo
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« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2003, 10:59:29 am »
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punishment for ones crimes does not just include rehab, it include paying for your crimes and preventing it from happening again.  An executed killer has never murdered again.


That is precisely why you cannot be considered objective on this issue. You have a personal stake in the continuance of the death penalty, and this emotional factor obviously influences your opinion. I haven't suffered the pain of losing someone in a murder, so I can speak on this issue. While I realize retribution is on the mind of those left behind, I would advise them to consider its similarity to vengeance. Rather than swallowing themselves up in vengenace, they could always forgive and show mercy, for forgiveness and mercy are the highest attributes of the human soul.
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Currently in Iraq, risking my butt to protect yours!

Republicans think every day is July 4, Democarts think every day is April 15
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Well I can hear you and soon the whole world will hear all of us. President George Bush
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« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2003, 11:00:33 am »
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Yes but still in the minority of Americans.  37 states have it and the fed and military systems have it.



See jravnsbo!  I'm not the only one.
I'm in the minority in almost everything.  So it doesn't bother me.
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I wanna contribute to the chaos
I don't wanna watch and then complain,
'cause I am through finding blame
that is the decision that I have made
jravnsbo
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« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2003, 11:01:00 am »
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Another point, ina  number of cases by having the death penalty hanging ove rthe head of a killer he will confess where the body is or some evidence to then plead to a deal and just get life.  That brings closure to the family and the case.  If you did not have that sentence hanging out there, many have said they would never have told.
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Republicans think every day is July 4, Democarts think every day is April 15
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« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2003, 12:46:48 pm »
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Yes but still in the minority of Americans.  37 states have it and the fed and military systems have it.



See jravnsbo!  I'm not the only one.
I'm in the minority in almost everything.  So it doesn't bother me.

So am I! Smiley
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jravnsbo
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« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2003, 02:12:06 pm »
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good then you won't feel bad after election day 2004. Smiley


Yes but still in the minority of Americans.  37 states have it and the fed and military systems have it.



See jravnsbo!  I'm not the only one.
I'm in the minority in almost everything.  So it doesn't bother me.
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Republicans think every day is July 4, Democarts think every day is April 15
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Miamiu1027
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« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2003, 02:47:32 pm »
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good then you won't feel bad after election day 2004. Smiley


Yes but still in the minority of Americans.  37 states have it and the fed and military systems have it.



See jravnsbo!  I'm not the only one.
I'm in the minority in almost everything.  So it doesn't bother me.

Did you feel bad after election 2000?  47.87%
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I wanna contribute to the chaos
I don't wanna watch and then complain,
'cause I am through finding blame
that is the decision that I have made
jravnsbo
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« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2003, 03:59:01 pm »
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no, because we won in the electoral college and that is all that matters and then had both houses of Congress for the first time in 50 years, it was great!  and since then the GOP majorities in the states and federal levels have only expanded.
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Currently in Iraq, risking my butt to protect yours!

Republicans think every day is July 4, Democarts think every day is April 15
President Reagan

Well I can hear you and soon the whole world will hear all of us. President George Bush
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