Why did WV vote for Bernie in the Democratic primary?
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  Why did WV vote for Bernie in the Democratic primary?
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Author Topic: Why did WV vote for Bernie in the Democratic primary?  (Read 6665 times)
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« on: May 31, 2017, 07:35:01 PM »

Since he is for clean energy and against coal.
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« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2017, 07:35:33 PM »

It was mostly an anti-Clinton vote.
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« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2017, 08:41:28 PM »

Yeah, many just wanted to vote against the Democratic frontrunner.
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« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2017, 08:51:36 PM »

I still wonder how much of it was strictly protest and how much of it was actual endearment to his populism and straight talking manner.
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Oldiesfreak1854
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« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2017, 09:04:34 PM »

West Virginia has always been a heavily unionized and protectionist state.  Sam reason why he won such a huge upset in Michigan, despite being behind by as much as 40 percent in some polls.
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« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2017, 10:24:50 PM »

I think an important factor was Hillary's misstatement about putting coal miners out of business. That made her unpopular in WV both in the primaries and in the general election.

On the other hand, I doubt Bernie would have been able to win WV outright in the general election, but I think he might have been able to avoid a "shutout" in the state by winning some counties (the last Democrat to avoid a shutout in WV was Obama in 2008).
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« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2017, 12:19:52 AM »

West Virginia has always been a heavily unionized and protectionist state.  Sam reason why he won such a huge upset in Michigan, despite being behind by as much as 40 percent in some polls.

Gotta agree with Oldies Freak on this one....

Additionally, Bill Clinton barely lifted a finger to protect the Coal Miners and the UMWA during the '93 strike, at a time where the Coal Operators were trying to close down Union Mines and shift operations to Non-Union Mines elsewhere within the region and country.

West Virginia Democratic Primary voters have a long history of supporting candidates of religious minority background (JKF in '60, Bernie in '16) that actually spend some time in the state, and talk about the real bread and butter issues concerning the vast majority of the state.

Bernie talked a common sense language for those of us that were born and raised in rural and small Mill town communities....

Clinton '16 was a very different candidate from Clinton '08.... She spoke the language of suburban Democratic Voters in '16, and neglected the core Democratic values going back to the New Deal era, and instead tried to do a compare and contrast with Bernie, where she went after him on Guns of all things early in the Democratic Party Primary debates, and unlike even Dukakis in '88 I don't remember her once making a pitch for rural and small-town voters during the primaries or General Election....

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« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2017, 01:33:09 PM »

West Virginia has always been a heavily unionized and protectionist state.  Sam reason why he won such a huge upset in Michigan, despite being behind by as much as 40 percent in some polls.

Gotta agree with Oldies Freak on this one....

Additionally, Bill Clinton barely lifted a finger to protect the Coal Miners and the UMWA during the '93 strike, at a time where the Coal Operators were trying to close down Union Mines and shift operations to Non-Union Mines elsewhere within the region and country.

West Virginia Democratic Primary voters have a long history of supporting candidates of religious minority background (JKF in '60, Bernie in '16) that actually spend some time in the state, and talk about the real bread and butter issues concerning the vast majority of the state.

Bernie talked a common sense language for those of us that were born and raised in rural and small Mill town communities....

Clinton '16 was a very different candidate from Clinton '08.... She spoke the language of suburban Democratic Voters in '16, and neglected the core Democratic values going back to the New Deal era, and instead tried to do a compare and contrast with Bernie, where she went after him on Guns of all things early in the Democratic Party Primary debates, and unlike even Dukakis in '88 I don't remember her once making a pitch for rural and small-town voters during the primaries or General Election....



Or maybe they voted against this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksIXqxpQNt0

Bernie Sanders didn't speak any common sense, nor is he comparable to JFK. He's not as inspirational as you think outside of your little corner of socialism.

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Hydera
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« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2017, 03:25:57 PM »

Lots of voters in the primary who were Trump supporters and socially conservative democrats voted for Bernie because they found out they were registered democrats and couldn't vote in the GOP primary but decided they wanted to make a message by voting for Bernie.
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NOVA Green
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« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2017, 07:24:33 PM »

West Virginia has always been a heavily unionized and protectionist state.  Sam reason why he won such a huge upset in Michigan, despite being behind by as much as 40 percent in some polls.

Gotta agree with Oldies Freak on this one....

Additionally, Bill Clinton barely lifted a finger to protect the Coal Miners and the UMWA during the '93 strike, at a time where the Coal Operators were trying to close down Union Mines and shift operations to Non-Union Mines elsewhere within the region and country.

West Virginia Democratic Primary voters have a long history of supporting candidates of religious minority background (JKF in '60, Bernie in '16) that actually spend some time in the state, and talk about the real bread and butter issues concerning the vast majority of the state.

Bernie talked a common sense language for those of us that were born and raised in rural and small Mill town communities....

Clinton '16 was a very different candidate from Clinton '08.... She spoke the language of suburban Democratic Voters in '16, and neglected the core Democratic values going back to the New Deal era, and instead tried to do a compare and contrast with Bernie, where she went after him on Guns of all things early in the Democratic Party Primary debates, and unlike even Dukakis in '88 I don't remember her once making a pitch for rural and small-town voters during the primaries or General Election....



Or maybe they voted against this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksIXqxpQNt0

Bernie Sanders didn't speak any common sense, nor is he comparable to JFK. He's not as inspirational as you think outside of your little corner of socialism.



Thank you sir for once again providing an scintillating and extremely insightful analysis on the politics of West Virginia.

Once again, the high quality of your posts speak for themselves....

Sure, Clinton's statement on Coal definitely hurt her in this part of the country, but was one of only many factors that caused her Democratic Primary numbers to collapse in West Virginia, as well as other late Primary States, such as Kentucky for example, as well as in many of rural and small town communities throughout our great country.

Apparently sir, your knowledge of West Virginia politics is as extensive as your knowledge of the 1960 Democratic Primary, and the key role that West Virginia played in resetting the narrative within the '60 Dem Primary, where it was considered to be virtually impossible by all of the pundits that a Catholic could win in an overwhelmingly Evangelical and Protestant State.

Needless to say, in 2016 West Virginia Democratic Party voters supported a "Socialist Jewish" candidate, who actually talked about the real issues that WV Democrats were concerned about, traveled throughout the State listening, and sometimes agreeing to disagree, but *still showed up*, in a State that has long since been abandoned by both the Democratic and Republican Parties at the Presidential level....

Now Sir, I do not appreciate nor respect your personal attack, where you presume simply because of my current political avatar to make giant sweeping statements such as "He's not as inspirational outside of your little corner of Socialism".

I am assuming that you are unaware that even after the Democratic Primary and the General Election was over, Bernie Sanders went down a few months back to do a town Hall in the deepest part of Coal Country in WV, in a county that voted over 70% for Trump....

Sigh--- please take a bit more time before you post stale cliches and going off on a rampage against a poster whom you apparently presume certain opinions of solely because of that individuals avatar.

BTW: If you have some spare time, you might want to read this book, which I did almost 30 years ago, and West Virginia features prominately...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Making_of_the_President,_1960

Hell, here's where you can buy a copy....

https://www.amazon.com/Making-President-1960-THEODORE-WHITE/dp/B000O5M3QK

So, looking forward to chatting more with you later regarding the comparisons and contrasts between the '60 and '16 Democratic Primary Primary in West Virginia.....





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« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2017, 07:51:33 PM »

West Virginia has always been a heavily unionized and protectionist state.  Sam reason why he won such a huge upset in Michigan, despite being behind by as much as 40 percent in some polls.

Gotta agree with Oldies Freak on this one....

Additionally, Bill Clinton barely lifted a finger to protect the Coal Miners and the UMWA during the '93 strike, at a time where the Coal Operators were trying to close down Union Mines and shift operations to Non-Union Mines elsewhere within the region and country.

West Virginia Democratic Primary voters have a long history of supporting candidates of religious minority background (JKF in '60, Bernie in '16) that actually spend some time in the state, and talk about the real bread and butter issues concerning the vast majority of the state.

Bernie talked a common sense language for those of us that were born and raised in rural and small Mill town communities....

Clinton '16 was a very different candidate from Clinton '08.... She spoke the language of suburban Democratic Voters in '16, and neglected the core Democratic values going back to the New Deal era, and instead tried to do a compare and contrast with Bernie, where she went after him on Guns of all things early in the Democratic Party Primary debates, and unlike even Dukakis in '88 I don't remember her once making a pitch for rural and small-town voters during the primaries or General Election....



Or maybe they voted against this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksIXqxpQNt0

Bernie Sanders didn't speak any common sense, nor is he comparable to JFK. He's not as inspirational as you think outside of your little corner of socialism.



Thank you sir for once again providing an scintillating and extremely insightful analysis on the politics of West Virginia.

Once again, the high quality of your posts speak for themselves....

Sure, Clinton's statement on Coal definitely hurt her in this part of the country, but was one of only many factors that caused her Democratic Primary numbers to collapse in West Virginia, as well as other late Primary States, such as Kentucky for example, as well as in many of rural and small town communities throughout our great country.

Apparently sir, your knowledge of West Virginia politics is as extensive as your knowledge of the 1960 Democratic Primary, and the key role that West Virginia played in resetting the narrative within the '60 Dem Primary, where it was considered to be virtually impossible by all of the pundits that a Catholic could win in an overwhelmingly Evangelical and Protestant State.

Needless to say, in 2016 West Virginia Democratic Party voters supported a "Socialist Jewish" candidate, who actually talked about the real issues that WV Democrats were concerned about, traveled throughout the State listening, and sometimes agreeing to disagree, but *still showed up*, in a State that has long since been abandoned by both the Democratic and Republican Parties at the Presidential level....

Now Sir, I do not appreciate nor respect your personal attack, where you presume simply because of my current political avatar to make giant sweeping statements such as "He's not as inspirational outside of your little corner of Socialism".

I am assuming that you are unaware that even after the Democratic Primary and the General Election was over, Bernie Sanders went down a few months back to do a town Hall in the deepest part of Coal Country in WV, in a county that voted over 70% for Trump....

Sigh--- please take a bit more time before you post stale cliches and going off on a rampage against a poster whom you apparently presume certain opinions of solely because of that individuals avatar.

BTW: If you have some spare time, you might want to read this book, which I did almost 30 years ago, and West Virginia features prominately...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Making_of_the_President,_1960

Hell, here's where you can buy a copy....

https://www.amazon.com/Making-President-1960-THEODORE-WHITE/dp/B000O5M3QK

So, looking forward to chatting more with you later regarding the comparisons and contrasts between the '60 and '16 Democratic Primary Primary in West Virginia.....






You know you can answer my post without being smug and pretentious, right? That attitude cost the Dems 2016, and its comforting to see that the far-left hasn't learned their lesson.

Congrats on knowing the 1960 Democratic primary in West Virginia. If I'm in a situation where I'll need to know about who West Virginian Democrats supported in 1960, I'll give you a ring. Fair? And I promise I won't be smug and act "holier-than-thou" in an attempt to show myself as better Wink

I am aware that Sanders went "deep into coal country," in fact I watched it live. Every state has liberals, and every state has conservatives. That crowd wasn't large, by the way. I'm pretty sure Ted Cruz could hold a town hall in San Francisco and he'd draw a crowd, albeit relatively small like Sanders.

BTW: Nice job ignoring the video link I posted ---*sigh*

Now excuse me, I'm gonna act smug on the forums tonight. Ta ta! 
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« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2017, 08:15:00 PM »

Lots of voters in the primary who were Trump supporters and socially conservative democrats voted for Bernie because they found out they were registered democrats and couldn't vote in the GOP primary but decided they wanted to make a message by voting for Bernie.
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« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2017, 09:23:36 PM »

West Virginia has always been a heavily unionized and protectionist state.  Sam reason why he won such a huge upset in Michigan, despite being behind by as much as 40 percent in some polls.

Gotta agree with Oldies Freak on this one....

Additionally, Bill Clinton barely lifted a finger to protect the Coal Miners and the UMWA during the '93 strike, at a time where the Coal Operators were trying to close down Union Mines and shift operations to Non-Union Mines elsewhere within the region and country.

West Virginia Democratic Primary voters have a long history of supporting candidates of religious minority background (JKF in '60, Bernie in '16) that actually spend some time in the state, and talk about the real bread and butter issues concerning the vast majority of the state.

Bernie talked a common sense language for those of us that were born and raised in rural and small Mill town communities....

Clinton '16 was a very different candidate from Clinton '08.... She spoke the language of suburban Democratic Voters in '16, and neglected the core Democratic values going back to the New Deal era, and instead tried to do a compare and contrast with Bernie, where she went after him on Guns of all things early in the Democratic Party Primary debates, and unlike even Dukakis in '88 I don't remember her once making a pitch for rural and small-town voters during the primaries or General Election....




then how did Bill easily win WV in 96 if he was so hated there.
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« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2017, 09:54:30 PM »
« Edited: June 01, 2017, 09:59:12 PM by ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) »

West Virginia has always been a heavily unionized and protectionist state.  Sam reason why he won such a huge upset in Michigan, despite being behind by as much as 40 percent in some polls.

Gotta agree with Oldies Freak on this one....

Additionally, Bill Clinton barely lifted a finger to protect the Coal Miners and the UMWA during the '93 strike, at a time where the Coal Operators were trying to close down Union Mines and shift operations to Non-Union Mines elsewhere within the region and country.

West Virginia Democratic Primary voters have a long history of supporting candidates of religious minority background (JKF in '60, Bernie in '16) that actually spend some time in the state, and talk about the real bread and butter issues concerning the vast majority of the state.

Bernie talked a common sense language for those of us that were born and raised in rural and small Mill town communities....

Clinton '16 was a very different candidate from Clinton '08.... She spoke the language of suburban Democratic Voters in '16, and neglected the core Democratic values going back to the New Deal era, and instead tried to do a compare and contrast with Bernie, where she went after him on Guns of all things early in the Democratic Party Primary debates, and unlike even Dukakis in '88 I don't remember her once making a pitch for rural and small-town voters during the primaries or General Election....




then how did Bill easily win WV in 96 if he was so hated there.


This guy is way too over it.  

With the exception of 10K new voters. Turnout in WV in 96 and 00 was basically the same.

https://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/compare.php?year=2000&fips=54&f=0&off=0&elect=0&type=state

http://us.cnn.com/ELECTION/1998/states/WV/polls/WV96PH.html

Gore lost 7% of the moderate vote, 5% of the liberal vote, 5% of the conservative vote compared to Clinton in 96.

Along with those new 10,000 voters of which 65% went to Bush. Pushed Gore from 51% to 45%. (10% of the 96 Clinton vote went to Bush and i know it says 21% but that number is probably inflated because its a poll and people tend to give dubious answers sometimes but at least 10% of the Clinton vote did switch to Bush).

Also gore lost 8% of the evangelical vote compared to Clinton.

http://www.cbsnews.com/campaign2000results/state/poll_wvop-.html

Three issues put Bush over the top, Lewinsky scandal which upset many religious/social conservative dems. Gun laws and the Kyoto protocol which was challenged in the state because it was seen as affecting the coal industry.

I get how some democrats want to make the whole narrative of losses as simply "we weren't left enough" and just ignore some more conventional reasons.
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« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2017, 10:56:13 PM »

West Virginia has always been a heavily unionized and protectionist state.  Sam reason why he won such a huge upset in Michigan, despite being behind by as much as 40 percent in some polls.

Gotta agree with Oldies Freak on this one....

Additionally, Bill Clinton barely lifted a finger to protect the Coal Miners and the UMWA during the '93 strike, at a time where the Coal Operators were trying to close down Union Mines and shift operations to Non-Union Mines elsewhere within the region and country.

West Virginia Democratic Primary voters have a long history of supporting candidates of religious minority background (JKF in '60, Bernie in '16) that actually spend some time in the state, and talk about the real bread and butter issues concerning the vast majority of the state.

Bernie talked a common sense language for those of us that were born and raised in rural and small Mill town communities....

Clinton '16 was a very different candidate from Clinton '08.... She spoke the language of suburban Democratic Voters in '16, and neglected the core Democratic values going back to the New Deal era, and instead tried to do a compare and contrast with Bernie, where she went after him on Guns of all things early in the Democratic Party Primary debates, and unlike even Dukakis in '88 I don't remember her once making a pitch for rural and small-town voters during the primaries or General Election....




then how did Bill easily win WV in 96 if he was so hated there.

Old School Republican---- the conversation was about the Democratic Primary results of '16 and not the General Election Results of '96....

I am the well aware of the voting patterns in West Virginia in Presidential Elections over the Decades...

Since you brought up the GE results in WV in '96 and beyond, that is an entirely different question, but certainly worthy of discussion and debate in it's own right.

The reality is that although Coal has long been a symbolic Industry that the vast majority of West Virginians identify with as part of shared identity and social narrative, there haven't been that many jobs directly nor indirectly associated with the Coal Industry for quite some time....

Bill Clinton's win in WV in '92 and '96 was a lagging indicator, and not a leading indicator....

By that I mean that despite Bill Clinton not defending the Heart of Coal Country against a direct assault against the United Mine Workers of America, he was still able to perform relatively well within those parts of WV that had a high level of Ancestral Trade Union history, and was still able to hold up decent numbers in many rural counties in the State, where Coal was not King.

Throw in a Robert Dole, running against a Bill Clinton running for reelection, when we starting to recover from the Bush Senior recession, sure WV went for Bill Clinton by a decent number.

Ok--- so fast forward to 2000, Gore is associated with the failures of the Clinton Administration in WV.

As the Veep, he is considered to be a key player and rep of Clintonian economic policies... Throw in a bit of the "environmentalist" angle at a time where the reality of Democratic and Republican administrations alike busted the balls of the UMWA....

Why would a solid Union Democratic voter in WV support Al Gore? Why vote at all?

Bill Clinton and the Coal Operators busted the United Mine Workers of America, and now the Democrats in 2000 nominated an "Environmentalist" and meanwhile you have this supposed Moderate Faith Based Republican, at a time where many rural and small town voters were shifting heavily against the Free Trade Agenda of the Clinton Administration....

It is a sad, sad, day in America where Trump was actually able to successfully articulate a message that Bill Clinton and Barack Obama should have heard, despite all of these various Free Trade bills getting rammed through with Republican Votes in the House and Senate, and the only ones standing up were Democrats in the House and Senate, and few Republicans from Northern and Midwestern States.

Sorry.... There used to be a direct relation from the Coal Industry, to the Steel Industry, to the Auto Industry, as part of a supply-chain operation that helped make America the economic powerhouse that it was over 100 years ago.

There was a time only a few decades back, where the Steelworker Unions (USW), Auto Workers Uniolns (UAW), and Coal Miner Unions (UMWA) actually were able to present detailed presentations to management to how we could improve both economic production, while also maintaining the American Middle-Class among workers in these industries.

Unfortunately, under the leadership of Ronald Reagan the bosses turned directly towards Class War, and did not heed the advice of the USW, UAW, and UMW during the late '70s.

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« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2017, 05:01:40 PM »

Lots of voters in the primary who were Trump supporters and socially conservative democrats voted for Bernie because they found out they were registered democrats and couldn't vote in the GOP primary but decided they wanted to make a message by voting for Bernie.
This. 40% of his voters said they would vote for Trump over Bernie.
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« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2017, 05:48:09 PM »

Lots of voters in the primary who were Trump supporters and socially conservative democrats voted for Bernie because they found out they were registered democrats and couldn't vote in the GOP primary but decided they wanted to make a message by voting for Bernie.

This was a huge reason.
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« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2017, 06:35:29 PM »

Lots of voters in the primary who were Trump supporters and socially conservative democrats voted for Bernie because they found out they were registered democrats and couldn't vote in the GOP primary but decided they wanted to make a message by voting for Bernie.

LOL, pretty sure they knew they were registered Democrats long before election day, and most still are.
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« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2017, 07:10:36 PM »

Because he's a man.
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« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2017, 11:03:45 PM »


Didn't stop her from winning in 2008.
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« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2017, 03:03:33 AM »
« Edited: June 20, 2017, 03:05:22 AM by Fmr. Pres. Griffin »


WV be like:

White woman > black man
White man > white woman



Anyway, I've been arguing with the delusionals about this for months:


Y'all just don't get it.

Tons 👏 of Bernie voters 👏 in WV 👏 protest 👏 voted 👏 for him.

I'm not painting any other picture than what is fair, and I'm certainly not using "isolated examples: 40 percent of the Democratic primary electorate always planned on voting for Trump. Of the remaining sixty percent or so, 35 percent legitimately supported Sanders and 25 percent legitimately supported Clinton. The overall group of Trump supporters was the plurality among those three groups, and 25% of all WV Democratic primary voters were Trump supporters who voted Bernie despite never supporting him.

They didn't vote for him because they liked him or wanted to see him as President: they voted for him because he wasn't Hillary Clinton - just like a huge portion of the love for Clinton there in the 2008 primary was fueled by her not being Blacky McBlackface.

They are conservatives who are registered Democrats because the Democratic Party has and still does rule WV local politics with an iron fist: they have closed primaries and if you want any say whatsoever over who ultimately runs your local and state politics, you register as a Democrat. This stuff isn't hard: a majority of registered voters in WV are registered Democrats but WV hasn't given a majority of its votes to a [presidential GE] Democrat since 1996; in the past four elections, it [the margin] hasn't even been in the single-digits.

It's not an outlier, it's not an exception: the difference between the picture you and others are trying to paint versus what is the reality is the difference between a solidly-progressive state and a heavily-conservative one; the difference between a legitimate Sanders rout (in both primary and general) and a victory where the primary's margin was fueled solely by protest voting.

^^^ I mean, this is a state where 40% of the Democratic primary voters in 2012 voted for a literal convict sitting in federal prison over the sitting Democratic President. It truly has always bothered me how there are people who are perplexed by the notion of registered Democrats in WV protest-voting.  



If Manchin were to lose the Democratic primary somehow, then the only way it'd happen is if scores of registered conservative Democrats decided they no longer wanted Manchin at all, threw a wrench into things, and protest-voted en masse for his opponent knowing it'd bolster the GOP candidate's chances. That combined with the self-ascribed "progressive vote" in WV might be enough to oust him in the primary, but short of that happening, it ain't happenin'.
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« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2017, 06:09:07 PM »

WV be like:

White woman > black man
White man > white woman

I wonder who a black woman could win against...
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« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2017, 06:54:11 PM »

WV be like:

White woman > black man
White man > white woman

I wonder who a black woman could win against...

A gay white man
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« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2017, 06:56:49 PM »

WV be like:

White woman > black man
White man > white woman

I wonder who a black woman could win against...

A gay white man

A gay white man against a Muslim would be very interesting in WV.
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« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2017, 01:55:47 PM »

Apropos of nothing, I really need to stop mentally making a note to read NOVA Green's excellent posts and work later because they're so long but full of details and rich in content but I don't have the time to dig into them. I need to just spend a day or two reading his post history.
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