Trump, a Presbyterian, just discovered that Presbyterians are Christians

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

and leftists would be only too elated if [...] organized religion were to disappear from the face of the Earth.

Not this one, nor would thousands of LGBT-affirming mainline Protestant churches as well as black churches.

As to who is "supposed to care" about this story, obviously you did enough to comment on it.

This post is dangerously close to invoking typically right wing habits of confusing religion with politics.

...Uh, no?  I'm just stating a fact.  Black evangelicals and liberal mainliners tend to vote for Democrats.  It makes no sense to say that "leftists" are anti-religion unless you live in a bubble, as mencken clearly does.

[Badger]

To be fair "are you actually a Christian" is a perfectly legitimate thing to ask mainline clergy these days

Cute. Except it's not, ... [Torie]

[Antonio the Sixth]

To be fair "are you actually a Christian" is a perfectly legitimate thing to ask mainline clergy these days

Cute. Except it's not, ... .

...I doubt a Calvinist cares very much for the Opus Dei.

[Badger]

To be fair "are you actually a Christian" is a perfectly legitimate thing to ask mainline clergy these days

Cute. Except it's not, ... .

...I doubt a Calvinist cares very much for the Opus Dei.

D'OH!! For some reason I thought Al fine was a conservative Catholic. Well, that's egg on my face period probably well-deserved considering that was a bit of an overreach unfair statement against Catholics on my part.

Still a rather smugly dickish pronunciation on DC's part.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Trump knows Presbyterians are Christian. This is just how he talks.

I doubt he really knew what Evangelicals were though. He probably thought Evangelical was any Christian who actually believes in God... I'll bet he thinks the Pope is Evangelical.

This was the confusion. He assumed the Presbyterian ministers were "evangelicals" and then they said they weren't.

[angus]

To be fair, we use the word "evangelical" in a strange way.  It's greek and it just means "good news."  In Germany, for example, evangelische is mainline protestant.  In the movie Sophie Scholl, when the SS interrogators ask her about her religion, you can clearly hear her say "Ich bin Evangelische" but the English subtitles read "I'm Lutheran."  We have used the word Lutheran to mean Evangelical and the word Evangelical to mean bible thumper.  Evangelicalism, properly defined, is a doctrine of salvation by grace through faith in the atonement of the Christ.  Methodists, Lutherans, Baptists, etc., are all evangelical christians.  Even conservative Presbyterians can be regarded as confessional evangelicals with calvinist roots. 

I think Donald Trump already knew that Presbyterian is one of the many flavors of Christian, but I don't think he has ever had the intellectual curiosity to learn the etymology of the term evangelical.  This hardly distinguishes him from his fellow countrymen.

[Torie]

Don't Presbyterian churches vary widely in style, with some more like the Episcopalians, and cerebral and very mainline, while others tend to have a more evangelical flavor in style? That is my impression anyway. I remember a Presbyterian church in Hollywood that seemed quite evangelical to me. I had a tenant who belonged to that church who loved to proselytize to save souls. He finally figured out that I was a hopeless case, who was incapable of making any sort of leap of faith.

[angus]

I was a hopeless case

Gospel.


I also had the impression that there are many flavors of presbyterians.  Perhaps one of our resident religious scholars can expound on them.  (Where's Ernest when you need him?)

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Don't Presbyterian churches vary widely in style, with some more like the Episcopalians, and cerebral and very mainline, while others tend to have a more evangelical flavor in style? That is my impression anyway. I remember a Presbyterian church in Hollywood that seemed quite evangelical to me. I had a tenant who belonged to that church who loved to proselytize to save souls. He finally figured out that I was a hopeless case, who was incapable of making any sort of leap of faith.

Yes, there's quite a bit of variety. There are different denominations, and even within the largest - PCUSA - which is considered mainline, there are many who would identify as evangelicals.  Similar to Methodists in that regard.

[Kingpoleon]

Don't Presbyterian churches vary widely in style, with some more like the Episcopalians, and cerebral and very mainline, while others tend to have a more evangelical flavor in style? That is my impression anyway. I remember a Presbyterian church in Hollywood that seemed quite evangelical to me. I had a tenant who belonged to that church who loved to proselytize to save souls. He finally figured out that I was a hopeless case, who was incapable of making any sort of leap of faith.

Yes, there's quite a bit of variety. There are different denominations, and even within the largest - PCUSA - which is considered mainline, there are many who would identify as evangelicals.  Similar to Methodists in that regard.

There are very few Methodists who would consider themselves evangelicals, thankfully. Our rivalry with the Baptists thankfully prohibits it from being common.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Don't Presbyterian churches vary widely in style, with some more like the Episcopalians, and cerebral and very mainline, while others tend to have a more evangelical flavor in style? That is my impression anyway. I remember a Presbyterian church in Hollywood that seemed quite evangelical to me. I had a tenant who belonged to that church who loved to proselytize to save souls. He finally figured out that I was a hopeless case, who was incapable of making any sort of leap of faith.

Yes, there's quite a bit of variety. There are different denominations, and even within the largest - PCUSA - which is considered mainline, there are many who would identify as evangelicals.  Similar to Methodists in that regard.

There are very few Methodists who would consider themselves evangelicals, thankfully. Our rivalry with the Baptists thankfully prohibits it from being common.

Sorry, but you're wrong.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Don't Presbyterian churches vary widely in style, with some more like the Episcopalians, and cerebral and very mainline, while others tend to have a more evangelical flavor in style? That is my impression anyway. I remember a Presbyterian church in Hollywood that seemed quite evangelical to me. I had a tenant who belonged to that church who loved to proselytize to save souls. He finally figured out that I was a hopeless case, who was incapable of making any sort of leap of faith.

The church I go to currently started as a sort of sub-church in a Presbyterian one before it split, so yeah. Although I know nothing about what that Presbyterian church is like.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Don't Presbyterian churches vary widely in style, with some more like the Episcopalians, and cerebral and very mainline, while others tend to have a more evangelical flavor in style? That is my impression anyway. I remember a Presbyterian church in Hollywood that seemed quite evangelical to me. I had a tenant who belonged to that church who loved to proselytize to save souls. He finally figured out that I was a hopeless case, who was incapable of making any sort of leap of faith.

Yes, there's quite a bit of variety. There are different denominations, and even within the largest - PCUSA - which is considered mainline, there are many who would identify as evangelicals.  Similar to Methodists in that regard.

There are very few Methodists who would consider themselves evangelicals, thankfully. Our rivalry with the Baptists thankfully prohibits it from being common.

Sorry, but you're wrong.

Yeah, I go to what is (among other hats) a generally quite liberal/mainline-oriented Methodist divinity school, and even here there are plenty of evangelical Methodists.

[Badger]

Don't Presbyterian churches vary widely in style, with some more like the Episcopalians, and cerebral and very mainline, while others tend to have a more evangelical flavor in style? That is my impression anyway. I remember a Presbyterian church in Hollywood that seemed quite evangelical to me. I had a tenant who belonged to that church who loved to proselytize to save souls. He finally figured out that I was a hopeless case, who was incapable of making any sort of leap of faith.

The church I go to currently started as a sort of sub-church in a Presbyterian one before it split, so yeah. Although I know nothing about what that Presbyterian church is like.

Neither does Trump. That's really the underlying point of this thread.

[DC Al Fine]

Don't Presbyterian churches vary widely in style, with some more like the Episcopalians, and cerebral and very mainline, while others tend to have a more evangelical flavor in style? That is my impression anyway. I remember a Presbyterian church in Hollywood that seemed quite evangelical to me. I had a tenant who belonged to that church who loved to proselytize to save souls. He finally figured out that I was a hopeless case, who was incapable of making any sort of leap of faith.

All the older Protestant traditions are like this. It's just the proportion of Evangelicals that varies.

[Santander]

Don't Presbyterian churches vary widely in style, with some more like the Episcopalians, and cerebral and very mainline, while others tend to have a more evangelical flavor in style? That is my impression anyway. I remember a Presbyterian church in Hollywood that seemed quite evangelical to me. I had a tenant who belonged to that church who loved to proselytize to save souls. He finally figured out that I was a hopeless case, who was incapable of making any sort of leap of faith.

Episcopalians/Anglicans have three main factions - Progressive, Anglo-Catholic, and Evangelical. Some people are somewhere between two of those factions.

[Kingpoleon]

Don't Presbyterian churches vary widely in style, with some more like the Episcopalians, and cerebral and very mainline, while others tend to have a more evangelical flavor in style? That is my impression anyway. I remember a Presbyterian church in Hollywood that seemed quite evangelical to me. I had a tenant who belonged to that church who loved to proselytize to save souls. He finally figured out that I was a hopeless case, who was incapable of making any sort of leap of faith.

Yes, there's quite a bit of variety. There are different denominations, and even within the largest - PCUSA - which is considered mainline, there are many who would identify as evangelicals.  Similar to Methodists in that regard.

There are very few Methodists who would consider themselves evangelicals, thankfully. Our rivalry with the Baptists thankfully prohibits it from being common.

Sorry, but you're wrong.

Yeah, I go to what is (among other hats) a generally quite liberal/mainline-oriented Methodist divinity school, and even here there are plenty of evangelical Methodists.

Maybe evangelical in outlook, but not in self-identification.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Don't Presbyterian churches vary widely in style, with some more like the Episcopalians, and cerebral and very mainline, while others tend to have a more evangelical flavor in style? That is my impression anyway. I remember a Presbyterian church in Hollywood that seemed quite evangelical to me. I had a tenant who belonged to that church who loved to proselytize to save souls. He finally figured out that I was a hopeless case, who was incapable of making any sort of leap of faith.

Yes, there's quite a bit of variety. There are different denominations, and even within the largest - PCUSA - which is considered mainline, there are many who would identify as evangelicals.  Similar to Methodists in that regard.

There are very few Methodists who would consider themselves evangelicals, thankfully. Our rivalry with the Baptists thankfully prohibits it from being common.

Sorry, but you're wrong.

Yeah, I go to what is (among other hats) a generally quite liberal/mainline-oriented Methodist divinity school, and even here there are plenty of evangelical Methodists.

Maybe evangelical in the sense of "wanting to share their faith", but definitely not in terms of what it has actually come to mean in Today's society: Absolute Biblical Literalism + Solidly in the Republican Party

[Kingpoleon]

The Wesleyan movement is directly contrary to the principles of so-called "evangelical" Protestantism.