Warren dodges questions on Bernie for 5 minutes straight

[Shadows]

Beet makes troll posts to amuse people, don't know why people are taking it seriously.

@ Topic - I don't see any problem with this & i don't blame her. She is more progressive than most senators, is intelligent & I don't think any1 accused her of showing "political courage" or "vision", so there's really no problem with this !

[Coolface Sock #42069]

This thread is pretty much why BernieBros were never believed when they said that Hillary's mistake was not being more of a populist. If a woman is left, she's too far left. If she's center, she's a neoliberal shill. In reality the reactions have nothing to do with their positions, they're about sexism.

Most Sanders people like Warren.  Don't take a few retards on Twitter as representative of the entire base.

(I for one do not deny that there is a stigma against being a woman in academia or politics, and especially both.  Hence shtposts like the one I quoted above.)

Fair enough. But while some people are consistent, many progressive-aligned "bros" tend to give establishment men, like Obama, Biden, Schumer, Menendez, Carper, a pass, while NOT giving the same to establishment women, like Hillary, DWS, or Dianne Feinstein. And since progressive men or women of any stripe rarely win, this leaves women in politics in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" type situation.

While I'll withhold judgment on the other two due to not being a Democrat, I truly believe that had a man been chair of the DNC and behaved the way DWS did, that man would not have gotten a free pass, either.

Perez is just as hated as DWS. There's no sexism.

I don't think anyone could run that party and hold an 80% approval rating within the party anymore, except maybe Barack Obama, who would never do it. Why is that so much harder for Dems? Reince Priebus never got this level of hate.

[Lord Admirale]

There's no way that Warren could energize the WWC. She's pretty much Hillary, except further left and more condescending. The only people who could energize the WWC are people who wouldn't make it through the primaries (Manchin, Warner, Casey, Justice, Bel Edwards, even Cuomo)

Oh yeah, Joe Manchin and Andrew Cuomo: true WWC heroes.

This post just gave me a brain tumor.

Yes because a fake Native American lecturing working class whites on their privilege would be so energizing, right? The man who spent his life in coal country or the son of the Liberal Lion? Nah, they wouldn't energize the WWC at all!

You don't have to be an asshole to me for no reason. If I'm wrong, tell me in a not-asshole fashion.

There's no way that Warren could energize the WWC. She's pretty much Hillary, except further left and more condescending. The only people who could energize the WWC are people who wouldn't make it through the primaries (Manchin, Warner, Casey, Justice, Bel Edwards, even Cuomo)

What about Sherrod Brown?

Forgot about him; he'd work.

[White Trash]

I've never seen a candidate who likes to bash the opposite party more than Warren. She'll have a hard time winning over these Orange County-type #NeverTrump Republicans, and she's incredibly overrated in general IMO.

We neither want nor need those voters.

[Technocracy Timmy]

I've never seen a candidate who likes to bash the opposite party more than Warren. She'll have a hard time winning over these Orange County-type #NeverTrump Republicans, and she's incredibly overrated in general IMO.

We neither want nor need those voters.

You need them to help get a House majority, but obviously not for a presidential race. I think Hillary won every congressional district in Orange County.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

This thread (and Atlas's attitude towards Warren in general, from Jfern to Hagrid to ClassicCon) is hilarious. Honestly, Beet might have a point here if you aim it not at Bernie people but everyone else.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

This thread (and Atlas's attitude towards Warren in general, from Jfern to Hagrid to ClassicCon) is hilarious. Honestly, Beet might have a point here if you aim it not at Bernie people but everyone else.

All the people who cry sexism seem to dislike Tulsi Gabbard.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

This thread (and Atlas's attitude towards Warren in general, from Jfern to Hagrid to ClassicCon) is hilarious. Honestly, Beet might have a point here if you aim it not at Bernie people but everyone else.

All the people who cry sexism seem to dislike Tulsi Gabbard.

You're right, I don't. She strikes me as an opportunist who is using Bernie's movement.

I also didn't like Secretary Clinton, but all of the people who think Warren is 'shrill' are deeply suspect IMHO.

[#gravelgang #lessiglad]

This thread is pretty much why BernieBros were never believed when they said that Hillary's mistake was not being more of a populist. If a woman is left, she's too far left. If she's center, she's a neoliberal shill. In reality the reactions have nothing to do with their positions, they're about sexism.

Most Sanders people like Warren.  Don't take a few retards on Twitter as representative of the entire base.

(I for one do not deny that there is a stigma against being a woman in academia or politics, and especially both.  Hence shtposts like the one I quoted above.)

Fair enough. But while some people are consistent, many progressive-aligned "bros" tend to give establishment men, like Obama, Biden, Schumer, Menendez, Carper, a pass, while NOT giving the same to establishment women, like Hillary, DWS, or Dianne Feinstein. And since progressive men or women of any stripe rarely win, this leaves women in politics in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" type situation.

While I'll withhold judgment on the other two due to not being a Democrat, I truly believe that had a man been chair of the DNC and behaved the way DWS did, that man would not have gotten a free pass, either.

Perez is just as hated as DWS. There's no sexism.

I don't think anyone could run that party and hold an 80% approval rating within the party anymore, except maybe Barack Obama, who would never do it. Why is that so much harder for Dems? Reince Priebus never got this level of hate.

Not for nothing, but Michael Steele got a lot of hate. It's hard to disentangle his race from some of his missteps in managing the RNC, particularly its funds, however.

And people also seem more or less fond of Dean's tenure, while looking negatively on Kaine's.

I'm not even sure if I have a point other than, it might be harder to hold positions of authority within a party as an underrepresented group, but then again, our data set isn't wide enough to isolate those variables from other variables that could be driving dissatisfaction with those individuals (in DWS/Kaine's case: sizeable party losses/non-neutral primary behavior; in Steele's case: fiscal mismanagement).

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

I also didn't like Secretary Clinton, but all of the people who think Warren is 'shrill' are deeply suspect IMHO.

<snipped NH conspiracy theories>
not any criticism of Elizabeth Warren or a Democratic female politician has to do with sexism.

Yeah and there are things that you can legitimately criticize Warren for. "Shrillness" is generally both a loaded term, and one which does not apply to the Oklahoma-accented enthusiasm of Senator Warren.

[Beet]

I also didn't like Secretary Clinton, but all of the people who think Warren is 'shrill' are deeply suspect IMHO.

I know this is difficult for someone from New Hampshire to understand, but not any criticism of Elizabeth Warren or a Democratic female politician has to do with sexism.

Says the guy who likes Corbyn, is a dove, and whose seemingly only reason for supporting the GOP is his obsessive hate for New Hampshire women. You should vote on policy.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

This thread (and Atlas's attitude towards Warren in general, from Jfern to Hagrid to ClassicCon) is hilarious. Honestly, Beet might have a point here if you aim it not at Bernie people but everyone else.

All the people who cry sexism seem to dislike Tulsi Gabbard.

You're right, I don't. She strikes me as an opportunist who is using Bernie's movement.

I also didn't like Secretary Clinton, but all of the people who think Warren is 'shrill' are deeply suspect IMHO.

Tulsi gets a lot of hate for bogus reasons. Warren is kind of a coward, but she is still better than the overwhelming majority of Senators.

[Shadows]

This thread (and Atlas's attitude towards Warren in general, from Jfern to Hagrid to ClassicCon) is hilarious. Honestly, Beet might have a point here if you aim it not at Bernie people but everyone else.

All the people who cry sexism seem to dislike Tulsi Gabbard.

You're right, I don't. She strikes me as an opportunist who is using Bernie's movement.

I also didn't like Secretary Clinton, but all of the people who think Warren is 'shrill' are deeply suspect IMHO.

No1 is saying that Gabbard is the heir to bernie. But opportunist is a ridiculous depiction because when Gabbard endorsed Bernie, Bernie was collapsing. After losing Iowa, Nevada, he lost SC by around 50% & Super Tuesday was supposed to end his Presidential run. No1 even thought he could run deep.

And Gabbard is only 36, was taking on the Clinton machine who have loyalty scores & wipe out dissenters & they personally threatened her that this would be remembered, all funds will be pulled & there could be future repercussions. In addition, Gabbard was a DNC Vice-Chair who quit her post. She is very young, is a female military veteran, Congresswomen & DNC Vice-Chair, for her the easy & politically correct thing would be to not go full throttle with Bernie. She would have been a start, would have won Hirono's Senate seat in 2024 & would have launched her presidential run in 2028.

Today, her whole future has been sort of endangered !

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

This thread (and Atlas's attitude towards Warren in general, from Jfern to Hagrid to ClassicCon) is hilarious. Honestly, Beet might have a point here if you aim it not at Bernie people but everyone else.

All the people who cry sexism seem to dislike Tulsi Gabbard.

You're right, I don't. She strikes me as an opportunist who is using Bernie's movement.

I also didn't like Secretary Clinton, but all of the people who think Warren is 'shrill' are deeply suspect IMHO.

No1 is saying that Gabbard is the heir to bernie. But opportunist is a ridiculous depiction because when Gabbard endorsed Bernie, Bernie was collapsing. After losing Iowa, Nevada, he lost SC by around 50% & Super Tuesday was supposed to end his Presidential run. No1 even thought he could run deep.

And Gabbard is only 36, was taking on the Clinton machine who have loyalty scores & wipe out dissenters & they personally threatened her that this would be remembered, all funds will be pulled & there could be future repercussions. In addition, Gabbard was a DNC Vice-Chair who quit her post. She is very young, is a female military veteran, Congresswomen & DNC Vice-Chair, for her the easy & politically correct thing would be to not go full throttle with Bernie. She would have been a start, would have won Hirono's Senate seat in 2024 & would have launched her presidential run in 2028.

Today, her whole future has been sort of endangered !

The campaign was breaking fundraising records, he had outperformed expectations in IA, and knew it was going to take home several wins on Super Tuesday. Maybe you were feeling down about Sanders's chances then, but very few other people were.

Gabbard has lost a position on the inside track, but seems to have gained a captive audience among a subset of Bernie folks. Think of yourself and Jfern as Glenn Beck devotees. He may have lost his position on Fox news by saying crazy ish, but was able to monetize his base far more effectively from The Blaze. And that's what I suspect Gabbard is doing: cashing in on Bernie's revolution.

Tulsi gets a lot of hate for bogus reasons. Warren is kind of a coward, but she is still better than the overwhelming majority of Senators.

As for her policy positions getting undue flack; I don't know about you but I'm extremely cautious about people who claim to be on the left but think that the nature of Islam is what creates terrorists in the middle east, and pal around with the BJP.

[Shadows]

This thread (and Atlas's attitude towards Warren in general, from Jfern to Hagrid to ClassicCon) is hilarious. Honestly, Beet might have a point here if you aim it not at Bernie people but everyone else.

All the people who cry sexism seem to dislike Tulsi Gabbard.

You're right, I don't. She strikes me as an opportunist who is using Bernie's movement.

I also didn't like Secretary Clinton, but all of the people who think Warren is 'shrill' are deeply suspect IMHO.

No1 is saying that Gabbard is the heir to bernie. But opportunist is a ridiculous depiction because when Gabbard endorsed Bernie, Bernie was collapsing. After losing Iowa, Nevada, he lost SC by around 50% & Super Tuesday was supposed to end his Presidential run. No1 even thought he could run deep.

And Gabbard is only 36, was taking on the Clinton machine who have loyalty scores & wipe out dissenters & they personally threatened her that this would be remembered, all funds will be pulled & there could be future repercussions. In addition, Gabbard was a DNC Vice-Chair who quit her post. She is very young, is a female military veteran, Congresswomen & DNC Vice-Chair, for her the easy & politically correct thing would be to not go full throttle with Bernie. She would have been a start, would have won Hirono's Senate seat in 2024 & would have launched her presidential run in 2028.

Today, her whole future has been sort of endangered !

The campaign was breaking fundraising records, he had outperformed expectations in IA, and knew it was going to take home several wins on Super Tuesday. Maybe you were feeling down about Sanders's chances then, but very few other people were.

Gabbard has lost a position on the inside track, but seems to have gained a captive audience among a subset of Bernie folks. Think of yourself and Jfern as Glenn Beck devotees. He may have lost his position on Fox news by saying crazy ish, but was able to monetize his base far more effectively from The Blaze. And that's what I suspect Gabbard is doing: cashing in on Bernie's revolution.

Tulsi gets a lot of hate for bogus reasons. Warren is kind of a coward, but she is still better than the overwhelming majority of Senators.

As for her policy positions getting undue flack; I don't know about you but I'm extremely cautious about people who claim to be on the left but think that the nature of Islam is what creates terrorists in the middle east, and pal around with the BJP.

I am sorry but are painting a completely wrong picture. No1 in this forum thought any state other than VT was sure for Bernie (maybe MN, CO at best if Bernie gets lucky). I was here every single day & that 250,000 people in Reddit were not confident of a single win outside VT. The whole campaign was collapsing. Bernie Sanders came to Nevada with a huge support expecting & even declaring that he will win.  And then he lost Nevada & all his momentum.

He had even climbed to 36% in some polls in SC & then fell to a 24-25% odd & lost by a massive 50% in SC. As for polls go, only VT showed Bernie winning, Minnesota & Colorado had caucuses with very few polls (you can check old threads here). Oklahoma, Hillary was leading in many polls & Bernie won because he won conservative votes 2/1 apart from some liberal votes. It was a shock win.

Hillary & her team (Bill & others) campaigned everywhere - Minnesota, Colorado - Colorado was a closed caucus with no independents & HRC has won Iowa & Nevada Caucuses. Out-performed expectations in Iowa is also an incorrect statements considering Bernie led in several Iowa Polls during the home run, most notably the CNN/WMUR. The Iowa result was almost exactly as the polls predicted (not over-performing).

One of the major problems here is that people have set views & then they pick & chose logic to suit that view. Bernie's campaign was collapsing after SC, he could barely compete in most states (didn't even visit most Southern states) & Devine said multiple times that they have to win a few states in Super Tuesday for their campaign to survive. HRC campaigned explicitly had a strategy of competing if Bernie's stronger states in Super Tuesday to win all states bar VT & knock him out.

Gabbard is nowhere near as progressive as Bernie & she will never get those uber liberal votes. She is not Glen Beck of the right with a life long advocacy. Gabbard did put her whole career on stake . This is not a media show or a game. HRC was going to be the President & DWS the DNC Chair. And remember, no1 knew that Bernie would win Hawaii big (Obama's home state) so she was putting her re-election in jeopardy in the future! Regardless of Gabbard's ideological position, this should be standard logic !

[Beet]

Uh, Gabbard made her career with that move, and it's probably will she'll (sadly) be the 2020 nominee.

[Shameless Lefty Hack]

snippety-snip-snip-snip

Theeeeere's a lot to unpack here.

1) Last I knew (Wulfric's precious endorsements excepted) Atlas opinion has little impact on reality.
2) IA polls showed a narrow HRC lead. I distinctly remember everyone being surprised when Sanders tied.
3) The campaign had enough money to keep going long past super Tuesday. You can check the FEC filings if you want.
4) Momentum is not real. Journalists like to talk about it, but it has no relationship with reality. Losing NV was hard, and perhaps a turning point of the campaign, but not in the way you describe.
5) Really? Colorado as a swing state? HRC and Bill campaigning everywhere? You know Bernie was campaigning places too.
6) I hate to be this guy, but I really think I have more reliable sources on what the campaign was thinking at the time than what Tad Devine was doing with the expectations game on TV.
7) Who in their right mind thought Sanders would lose Hawaii. Each campaign sent like, two staffers there because we knew it was in the bag for Bernie.
8 ) Gabbard is a Glenn Beck of the left, not the right. She made her career, Beet (for once) is right. She will not be the 2020 nominee though, because she'll only take y'alls support.

[Kingpoleon]

This thread is pretty much why BernieBros were never believed when they said that Hillary's mistake was not being more of a populist. If a woman is left, she's too far left. If she's center, she's a neoliberal shill. In reality the reactions have nothing to do with their positions, they're about sexism.

Two very different groups of people are making those claims, but nice try conflating your opponents. (Don't worry, it is an extremely common fallacy on Atlas and in general.)

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

snippety-snip-snip-snip

Theeeeere's a lot to unpack here.

1) Last I knew (Wulfric's precious endorsements excepted) Atlas opinion has little impact on reality.
2) IA polls showed a narrow HRC lead. I distinctly remember everyone being surprised when Sanders tied.
3) The campaign had enough money to keep going long past super Tuesday. You can check the FEC filings if you want.
4) Momentum is not real. Journalists like to talk about it, but it has no relationship with reality. Losing NV was hard, and perhaps a turning point of the campaign, but not in the way you describe.
5) Really? Colorado as a swing state? HRC and Bill campaigning everywhere? You know Bernie was campaigning places too.
6) I hate to be this guy, but I really think I have more reliable sources on what the campaign was thinking at the time than what Tad Devine was doing with the expectations game on TV.
7) Who in their right mind thought Sanders would lose Hawaii. Each campaign sent like, two staffers there because we knew it was in the bag for Bernie.
8 ) Gabbard is a Glenn Beck of the left, not the right. She made her career, Beet (for once) is right. She will not be the 2020 nominee though, because she'll only take y'alls support.

on 7), there were many people on Atlas who believed that Hillary was likely to win Hawaii because it was Obama's birth state (Obama was implicitly endorsing Hillary from the start) and because it is dominated by minorities. Certainly the very large margin by which Sanders won was a surprise to most users.