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  World War I
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Poll
Question: President Wilson:
#1[American] did the right thing by going to war  
#2[American] did the wrong thing by going to war  
#3[non American] did the right thing by going to war  
#4[non American] did the wrong thing by going to war  
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 39

Author Topic: World War I  (Read 3660 times)
Richard
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« on: August 09, 2005, 09:40:10 am »

I believe Wilson was a senile old man and made an insane decision to involve the United States in World War I.  He should have been impeached and removed from office.
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Colin
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« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2005, 10:07:16 am »

Well let me put it very simply Richius. If America had not gotten involved in World War I in 1917 then Germany would have won within a year. French lines were already breaking and French morale was being destroyed by the Germans. If American reinforcements hadn't come at the time that they did I think you would have seen a huge retreat, and possibly rout, by French troops further into France. So what would have happened would have been a Germany triumphant. They probably would have dictated terms towards the French and English comparable to the OTL Verseilles Treaty. It makes a great counterfactual history but the point is that it would have been a horrible defeat for America's allies in Europe.
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The love that set me free
BRTD
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« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2005, 10:19:02 am »

wrong thing. No good guys or bad guys in that war, just two sets of opposing powers. Didn't involve the US at all.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2005, 10:20:57 am »

To be honest, I'm not sure. I don't have as much knowlege of that war as I do WWII. They seem to put more emphasis on the latter in school. Tongue
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Richard
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« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2005, 10:25:46 am »

Well let me put it very simply Richius. If America had not gotten involved in World War I in 1917 then Germany would have won within a year.
So?

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Remember, at time, there were no allies.
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KillerPollo
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« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2005, 10:29:00 am »
« Edited: August 09, 2005, 10:33:35 am by Mexican StatesRights™ (AKA: KillerPollo) »

wrong thing. No good guys or bad guys in that war, just two sets of opposing powers. Didn't involve the US at all.
^^^

The treaty of versailles engineered by the Americans was the tool of ANGER and HATE that fueled Hitler's ideology of a great Germany. This treaty angered a lot of germans as much as the treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo INFURIATES me! Proportionally, over the years, From the German Empite in 1878 until Germany today, it has lost about the same percentage of Territory that Mexico lost to the US.

Germany, I feel your pain! Too bad we dont have the power to take back our territory by force like the Germans did in WWII
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2005, 10:31:13 am »

We should have entered the war on Germany's side Tongue

IIRC, all they wanted in a peace treaty was Alasce (sp?) & Lorraine, compared to the Allies' barbaric Treaty of Versailles (sp? darn French place names Tongue)
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Huckleberry Finn
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« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2005, 10:44:46 am »

WWI was a totally stupid and unnecessary war, but however the US involment was a goog thing. It speeded up the end of the war. 
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John Dibble
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« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2005, 10:50:02 am »

The treaty of versailles engineered by the Americans was the tool of ANGER and HATE that fueled Hitler's ideology of a great Germany. This treaty angered a lot of germans as much as the treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo INFURIATES me! Proportionally, over the years, From the German Empite in 1878 until Germany today, it has lost about the same percentage of Territory that Mexico lost to the US.

Germany, I feel your pain! Too bad we dont have the power to take back our territory by force like the Germans did in WWII

I don't think that anyone would argue that the aftermath was a royal f**kup, considering we don't use those sorts of policies anymore because of what it did. Still, that doesn't argue against involvment in the war, it argues for a better peace treaty.
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ragnar
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« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2005, 12:38:32 pm »

wrong thing. No good guys or bad guys in that war, just two sets of opposing powers. Didn't involve the US at all.

I agree
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Virginian87
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« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2005, 12:57:33 pm »

World War I was not a disaster for us.  On the contrary, it saw the US taking its rightful place in the international community.  Wilson, along with T. Roosevelt and McKinley, was a key US president in bringing the US into modern times.  Ou rinvolvement sped up the end of the war and broke a 2-year long stalemate.  Wilson was an excellent president and a visionary, unless you hate income taxes (16th Amendment).  I know his 1916 slogan was "He kept us out of the war," but the increasing distraction of the war in Europe coupled with the German disruptions of our trans-Atlantic trade made it necessaary to go to war.  By the way, French demands prevailed at the Treaty of Versailles, so don't blame it on Wilson. 

Too bad the Republicans were too hell-bent on staying out of League of Nations and isolating ourselves from the world.  World War II might not have happened had we been a member of the League.
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AuH2O
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« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2005, 02:21:56 pm »

Wrong to enter war.

It would have ended in a draw, at least that is the view of most military historians. Our entry broke the Germans.
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bullmoose88
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« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2005, 02:37:22 pm »

I don't know if it was the wrong thing to do.


Although I don't think a victorious (or at least not-defeated) Germany would have been a bad thing either.
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??????????
StatesRights
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« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2005, 04:05:36 pm »

Option 2. And I would have supported the Germans as well.
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WMS
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« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2005, 04:30:27 pm »

The treaty of versailles engineered by the Americans was the tool of ANGER and HATE that fueled Hitler's ideology of a great Germany. This treaty angered a lot of germans as much as the treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo INFURIATES me! Proportionally, over the years, From the German Empite in 1878 until Germany today, it has lost about the same percentage of Territory that Mexico lost to the US.

Germany, I feel your pain! Too bad we dont have the power to take back our territory by force like the Germans did in WWII

WARNING! POTENTIAL THREAD HIJACKING IN PROGRESS!

Sorry, couldn't resist this. Tongue

Perhaps if Mexico - which actually had a larger army than the U.S. in the Mexican-American War - had been able to keep the same government for the entire length of the war it might have done better. Grin

And German attempts to enlist Mexico on its side against the U.S. were one of the reasons for American involvement in WWI.

And you are free to try and take the land back. Call me when the Texan National Guard sacks Monterrey. Tongue
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DanielX
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« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2005, 05:52:14 pm »

wrong thing. No good guys or bad guys in that war, just two sets of opposing powers. Didn't involve the US at all.
^^^

The treaty of versailles engineered by the Americans was the tool of ANGER and HATE that fueled Hitler's ideology of a great Germany. This treaty angered a lot of germans as much as the treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo INFURIATES me! Proportionally, over the years, From the German Empite in 1878 until Germany today, it has lost about the same percentage of Territory that Mexico lost to the US.

Germany, I feel your pain! Too bad we dont have the power to take back our territory by force like the Germans did in WWII

You realize that the US held Mexico by the balls in 1848, and probably could have taken much more territory (in theory, the US could have conquered Mexico outright; they did make it to Mexico City, after all).
World War I, on the other hand, ended with the Germans still occupying Belgian and French soil.
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Grand Mufti of NY
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« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2005, 05:55:21 pm »

#2
And we were on the wrong side. Tongue
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Virginian87
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« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2005, 06:27:56 pm »


Why do you say that?  I'm not criticizing you, I'm just curious.
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Grand Mufti of NY
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« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2005, 06:30:16 pm »


Why do you say that?  I'm not criticizing you, I'm just curious.
We were helping to perpetuate the imperialism of the Allies.
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Colin
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« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2005, 08:06:40 pm »


Why do you say that?  I'm not criticizing you, I'm just curious.
We were helping to perpetuate the imperialism of the Allies.

Uh huh like Germany wasn't an imperialist power as well.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2005, 08:16:59 pm »

I don't know if it was a good or bad thing.

I guess it was bad in that the outcome of World War I led directly to World War II.

Still, a German victory in 1917 may have been worse.  To get a taste of how the Germans would have been in victory, look at the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk that the Germans imposed on defeated Russia.

For all the Germans' self-centered wailing about Versailles, that treat was mild compared to what the Germans themselves imposed upon the Russians.

We'll know know how it might have turned out differently, but I can't look with favor on an almost certain German victory.  Whatever the weaknesses of the British and French, they were not at that point capable of the kind of barbarity that we later saw from the Germans, so I have to say it was a good thing that the British and French, and not the Germans, were the victorious powers in World War I, and this would not have happened without American intervention.
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J. J.
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« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2005, 08:56:51 pm »

We should have entered the war on Germany's side Tongue

IIRC, all they wanted in a peace treaty was Alasce (sp?) & Lorraine, compared to the Allies' barbaric Treaty of Versailles (sp? darn French place names Tongue)

First, I'm going to point out that the bulk of Alsace-Lorraine had been annexed to Germany in the Franco-Prussian War of 1870-1.  While there were some (relatively minor) claims of French territory by Germany, there were not the subject of annexation.  Luxemburg and Belgium were however being considered for incorporation into the Second Reich.  This was the the sticking point for the British; centuries of strategy of the British were to Keep the low countries out of the hands of any great power.

One reason that the Germans wanted to annex what they did, and not all of France, was that Alsace-Lorraine was German speaking.

Second, Imperial Germany was not all that Imperialistic.  It entered the race for colonies late in the 19th Century.  Bismarck was actually opposed to colonialization and to a large navy to defend them.  What they had was exceptionally underpopulated and not profitable.  Most of Germany's colonies were overrun prior to the American entry.

Third, the Zimmerman note was basically a proposed alliance with Mexico that was predicated on the case of the US declaring war on Germany.  The reason Germany thought it was likely was that they were preparing to restart unrestricted submarine warfare.

The US wanted to be in a position where it send ships to the UK (and sell the cargos) and not enter a battle zone.  We balked at being shot at when we entered a war zone.

Yes, I would have opposed our entry into World War I, the Germans would have won and the Social Democrats (then including German Communists).  There numbers were growing and I would have expected a constitutional crisis in Germany after the war.
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Virginian87
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« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2005, 10:55:47 pm »


Why do you say that?  I'm not criticizing you, I'm just curious.
We were helping to perpetuate the imperialism of the Allies.

Ummm...Perhaps you haven't seen a map of the world pre-1914.  Germany colonized half of Samoa, northern New Guinea (why do you think the islands around there are called the Bismarck archipelago?), and what is now Tanzania and Namibia and part of Cameroon.  Austria-Hungary had ruled over several European ethnicities against their will (Czechs, Slovenians, Croats, and others come to mind) and suppressed these cultures.  The Ottoman Empire suppressed the peoples of the Middle East who weren't Turks.  So next time, check your history.  Imperialism was by no means limited to the Allied Powers.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2005, 08:22:58 am »

The intervention of the U.S stopped that big German offensive in 1918, the failure of which led to the collapse of the German's on the Western Front and made the end of the war come much sooner. So that's a good thing IMO...

O/c it was a terrible, pointless and stupid war (and Germany was just as responsible as everyone else) but that's not the issue here I think... and pretty much every European power was Imperalist back then, but in different ways.

As for the treaties... Germany's territorial losses (especially to Poland) were entirely justified. The problem was French greed over reperations.
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KillerPollo
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« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2005, 08:27:42 am »

wrong thing. No good guys or bad guys in that war, just two sets of opposing powers. Didn't involve the US at all.
^^^

The treaty of versailles engineered by the Americans was the tool of ANGER and HATE that fueled Hitler's ideology of a great Germany. This treaty angered a lot of germans as much as the treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo INFURIATES me! Proportionally, over the years, From the German Empite in 1878 until Germany today, it has lost about the same percentage of Territory that Mexico lost to the US.

Germany, I feel your pain! Too bad we dont have the power to take back our territory by force like the Germans did in WWII

You realize that the US held Mexico by the balls in 1848, and probably could have taken much more territory (in theory, the US could have conquered Mexico outright; they did make it to Mexico City, after all).
World War I, on the other hand, ended with the Germans still occupying Belgian and French soil.

That is not the point i was trying to make!
The point was the anger and hatred instilled unto hitler because of the magnitude of the humiliation.

I too feel infuriated at the United States for what it did to my beloved home and native land. But i at least leave that behind, unlike Hitler.

Just imagine if they would have done some Versailles-like treaties after WWII! There would have been another Hitler by now.
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