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  World War I (search mode)
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Poll
Question: President Wilson:
#1[American] did the right thing by going to war  
#2[American] did the wrong thing by going to war  
#3[non American] did the right thing by going to war  
#4[non American] did the wrong thing by going to war  
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 39

Author Topic: World War I  (Read 3712 times)
Dynamite Shovel
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« on: August 09, 2005, 10:19:02 am »

wrong thing. No good guys or bad guys in that war, just two sets of opposing powers. Didn't involve the US at all.
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Dynamite Shovel
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« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2005, 12:19:41 pm »

It is worth pointing out the US never really did enter the war on the side of the Allies. It simply declared war on Germany, but did not join the Allies. Much like Finland was only at war with the Soviets in WWII.

The Lusitania and other Germany actions is what caused that, and it seems too many Americans today think it was justified because of the Lusitania. What usually is not mentioned is that:

1-the Lusitania was carrying contraband military cargo
2-the Germans took out ads in major US papers giving warnings
3-the British would've done the exact same thing had it been a German liner

All sides were nasty imperalistic powers at the time, and considering what Britain had done in South Africa less than 15 years ealier, and what they were still doing in India and continued to do after the war, I'd argue they were definately worse than the Germans in this regard.
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Dynamite Shovel
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« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2005, 12:47:32 pm »

Wrong. Genocide was never really practiced even by the worst Cecil Rhodes type; it was in some German colonies though. Germany was also imperialist within Europe; the treaty of Brest-Liovsk is a good example...

And however bad the adminstration of India was (and it was dire) it was actually one of the *better* run colonial posessions (as hard as that might be to believe) at the time... much better than (say) the Dutch East Indies or French West Africa.

What German colonies? I don't know much about German colonialism.

And what you say there about the other powers might be true, but since the French are one of them it kind of proves the point that the Allies weren't really much better. And the single worse European colonizer was Belgium, simply because of what happened in the Congo. Now THAT was definite genocide. And they were on the Allies.
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Dynamite Shovel
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« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2005, 08:18:22 pm »

Imperialism was mostly still  a good thing by that time

Imperialism is NEVER a good thing with one exception: Britain in Northern Ireland. I 100% support that. Otherwise I oppose all imperialism.
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Dynamite Shovel
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« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2005, 08:25:41 pm »

I only support British imperalism in Northern Ireland because they are protecting the Protestants there from the horribly authoritaraian and mysgonistic government on the rest of Ireland. Although it has been improving.
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Dynamite Shovel
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« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2005, 10:51:03 am »

I only support British imperalism in Northern Ireland because they are protecting the Protestants there from the horribly authoritaraian and mysgonistic government on the rest of Ireland. Although it has been improving.

Yes, like the Protestants weren't put there by the British. They've been there all along..yeah, sure. Roll Eyes

Ireland is where the Scots came from initially actually, so you can't really argue they have no business being there because of things that happened 300 years ago. And lots of the Protestants in Antrium county come from families that always have been in Ireland.

Ireland in the earlier part of the 20th century was an AWFUL place for women. They even had caps on how much married women could be paid! And ever heard of the Magdalene Laundries?
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Dynamite Shovel
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« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2005, 10:54:17 am »
« Edited: August 12, 2005, 10:56:50 am by BRTD: The Poll Troll »

While we're on the subject of imperialism's problems, what's your opinion of American imperialism in the Caribbean, Philippines and Pacific (Hawaii and other islands)?  We didn't just go in and take it peacefully, you know.

It was wrong. You can't really undo it though, most in Hawaii certainly want to remain part of the US, so I have no problem remaining that way. But it should've not have been forcibly annexed in the first place.

And the Phillipines was just wrong, period. The US killed as many a million civilians there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine-American_War

oh and all the diamonds in the world can't excuse what the British did in South Africa.
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Dynamite Shovel
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« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2005, 12:34:00 pm »

What you say may be true, but try telling that to an Irish republican. Most of the ones I've met (which is quite a bit over here, I've always found it interesting how Irish Americans had so much concern over what was going on in their ancestral country than most Americans do), talk about it being "the last remnant of the British Empire, the Occupied Six Counties, etc."

And what I meant by protecting the Protestants was keeping them out of what at the time was a pretty repressive country. No divorce, Magdalene Laundries, caps on the salaries of married women, pregnant teenagers often just thrown out on the streets and abanonded, abortion not even legal in the most dire of circumstances (I believe the Supreme Court case in Ireland that legalized abortion in cases where the mother's life was threatended involved a raped 13 year old girl who the Attorney General tried to prohibit from traveling to Britain for an abortion), the Republic was a pretty dire place during most of the time when The Troubles was going on. I'm quite happy it's been liberalizing lately, but during the conflict, that would definately have me backing the unionist side (of course that doesn't mean backing lunatics like Paisley or brutal unionist paramilitaries...)
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