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Author Topic: UK General Discussion: 2017 and onwards, Mayhem  (Read 129482 times)
Oryxslayer
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« Reply #1650 on: January 16, 2019, 02:27:13 pm »

For the record, that is basically a party line vote between the Conservatives and the DUP vs the rest.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #1651 on: January 16, 2019, 02:30:20 pm »

For the record, that is basically a party line vote between the Conservatives and the DUP vs the rest.

Well, yes. It was a confidence vote. That's how they go.
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Devout Centrist
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« Reply #1652 on: January 16, 2019, 02:34:32 pm »

Motion of no confidence defeated by 325-306.

Bugger.
There was no chance of this measuring succeeding. Any Tory voting against the Government would have been expelled from the Party.
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YL
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« Reply #1653 on: January 16, 2019, 02:38:13 pm »

For the record, that is basically a party line vote between the Conservatives and the DUP vs the rest.

For the Government: 314 Tories plus 2 tellers, 10 DUP, plus Sylvia Hermon (Ind, North Down)

Against the government: everybody else, except the Speaker and Deputy Speakers, Sinn Féin, Paul Flynn (Lab, Newport West; too ill to attend the Commons), and three Independents who abstained, John Woodcock, Ivan Lewis and Fiona Onasanya.  Woodcock said he wasn't voting for No Confidence because of Corbyn.
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LabourJersey
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« Reply #1654 on: January 16, 2019, 02:42:30 pm »

This is a tangent but do any of the British or Irish posters think that Sinn Féin's abstentionist policies are hurting them right now?

I don't think it's a good look that literally the only representatives of Northern Ireland present in Wetsminster are the DUP with one single exception, given how they don't represent the views of most Northern Irish people.

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Oryxslayer
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« Reply #1655 on: January 16, 2019, 02:57:25 pm »

This is a tangent but do any of the British or Irish posters think that Sinn Féin's abstentionist policies are hurting them right now?

I don't think it's a good look that literally the only representatives of Northern Ireland present in Wetsminster are the DUP with one single exception, given how they don't represent the views of most Northern Irish people.



That's why the SDLP , Alliance, and UUP exist. But they unfortunately didn't win any seats - the voters wanted the DUP and Sinn Fein.
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Statilius the Epicurean
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« Reply #1656 on: January 16, 2019, 03:02:10 pm »

This is a tangent but do any of the British or Irish posters think that Sinn Féin's abstentionist policies are hurting them right now?

No.

I don't think it's a good look that literally the only representatives of Northern Ireland present in Wetsminster are the DUP with one single exception, given how they don't represent the views of most Northern Irish people.

Let me tell you about Irish republicanism and why swearing an oath of loyalty to the British monarch is a problem for them.
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LabourJersey
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« Reply #1657 on: January 16, 2019, 04:09:51 pm »

This is a tangent but do any of the British or Irish posters think that Sinn Féin's abstentionist policies are hurting them right now?

No.

I don't think it's a good look that literally the only representatives of Northern Ireland present in Westminster are the DUP with one single exception, given how they don't represent the views of most Northern Irish people.

Let me tell you about Irish republicanism and why swearing an oath of loyalty to the British monarch is a problem for them.

I know why SF abstains and why that principle doesn't change.

 I'm just curious how NI voters who aren't unionists and didn't vote SF are feeling. They have literally no voice in politics right now even why they'll be effected the most drastically--how annoying must that be?
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(CT) The Free North
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« Reply #1658 on: January 16, 2019, 04:41:01 pm »

This is a tangent but do any of the British or Irish posters think that Sinn Féin's abstentionist policies are hurting them right now?

No.

I don't think it's a good look that literally the only representatives of Northern Ireland present in Westminster are the DUP with one single exception, given how they don't represent the views of most Northern Irish people.

Let me tell you about Irish republicanism and why swearing an oath of loyalty to the British monarch is a problem for them.

I know why SF abstains and why that principle doesn't change.

 I'm just curious how NI voters who aren't unionists and didn't vote SF are feeling. They have literally no voice in politics right now even why they'll be effected the most drastically--how annoying must that be?

And what percentage of those voters dont want to be in the UK regardless?
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Justice Blair
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« Reply #1659 on: January 16, 2019, 04:53:52 pm »

Watch Tom Watson's speech at the end of the debate- a very underrated speaker, who's clearly not been used enough by Labour since 2015. Does the Parliamentary performance that Corbyn can never do.

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1085610232170999808

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Anomalocaris🌹
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« Reply #1660 on: January 18, 2019, 10:34:19 pm »

Prime Minister Faiza Shaheen and President Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez are going to make a hell of a duo!
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 11:20:23 pm by Anomalocaris🌹#Bernie2020 »Logged
Torranski
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« Reply #1661 on: January 24, 2019, 07:03:23 am »

Alex Salmond, former First Minister of Scotland has been arrested.
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/alex-salmond-former-snp-leader-arrested-and-charged-11616043

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Secret Cavern Survivor
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« Reply #1662 on: January 24, 2019, 02:56:46 pm »

Alex Salmond, former First Minister of Scotland has been arrested.
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/alex-salmond-former-snp-leader-arrested-and-charged-11616043

.........wow
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LaRouche Lives Forever!
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« Reply #1663 on: January 24, 2019, 04:40:52 pm »

JESUS FECKING CHRIST.
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Torranski
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« Reply #1664 on: January 25, 2019, 08:52:12 am »

Update on the Salmond case.
Edinburgh Sheriff Court has released the charge sheet:
Img


The BBC has a decent summary up: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-46984747
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YL
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« Reply #1665 on: January 29, 2019, 08:59:21 am »

Fiona Onasanya, MP for Peterborough (elected as Labour but sitting as Independent since her conviction) has been sentenced to 3 months imprisonment for perverting the course of justice.

What this means:
- No automatic expulsion from Parliament (that would need a year's imprisonment).
- A recall petition can be started, and would need 10% of the electorate of the constituency to sign.  However, AIUI this has to wait until her appeal against the conviction is heard.
- She can't vote in the Commons while she's in prison.
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Lumine
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« Reply #1666 on: January 29, 2019, 09:36:14 am »

Fiona Onasanya, MP for Peterborough (elected as Labour but sitting as Independent since her conviction) has been sentenced to 3 months imprisonment for perverting the course of justice.

What this means:
- No automatic expulsion from Parliament (that would need a year's imprisonment).
- A recall petition can be started, and would need 10% of the electorate of the constituency to sign.  However, AIUI this has to wait until her appeal against the conviction is heard.
- She can't vote in the Commons while she's in prison.

I get that Onasanya herself clearly has an alternate view of reality - like comparing herself and her predicament to Jesus - and that some have an interest in her remaining so she can vote, but still, she should have the decency to at least resign her seat. I strongly hope there's at least an eventual recall.
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YL
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« Reply #1667 on: January 29, 2019, 12:38:01 pm »

Fiona Onasanya, MP for Peterborough (elected as Labour but sitting as Independent since her conviction) has been sentenced to 3 months imprisonment for perverting the course of justice.

What this means:
- No automatic expulsion from Parliament (that would need a year's imprisonment).
- A recall petition can be started, and would need 10% of the electorate of the constituency to sign.  However, AIUI this has to wait until her appeal against the conviction is heard.
- She can't vote in the Commons while she's in prison.

I get that Onasanya herself clearly has an alternate view of reality - like comparing herself and her predicament to Jesus - and that some have an interest in her remaining so she can vote, but still, she should have the decency to at least resign her seat. I strongly hope there's at least an eventual recall.

Personally I lean towards saying that any MP who is convicted of an imprisonable offence should lose their seat.  If their constituents still want them as a representative, they can vote for them in the by-election.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #1668 on: January 29, 2019, 01:37:02 pm »

The House can vote to expel, and probably ought to.
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Angel of Death
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« Reply #1669 on: January 29, 2019, 03:57:02 pm »

From what I understand from this latest round of voting, no deal has just become much more likely.
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Lumine
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« Reply #1670 on: January 29, 2019, 05:35:31 pm »

Seven amendments were voted on today, with the following results:

The Corbyn + Labour Frontbench amendment, ruling out No Deal and allowing the Commons to vote on other options including the mythical Labour Brexit Deal: Defeated 327 to 296

The SNP amendment, ruling out No Deal, extending Article 50, demanding greater involvement from Scotland and the regions and not taking Scotland out of the EU against its will: Defeated 39 to 327

The (Dominic) Grieve amendment, further empowering Parliament on Brexit and allowing for several days of debate and binding votes on amendments on alternative Brexit options: Defeated 321 to 301

The (Yvette) Cooper amendment, essentially ruling out No Deal by having the Govt. extend Article 50 all the way to December 31: Defeated 321 to 298

The (Rachel) Reaves amendment, requring the Government to postpone Brexit if a deal was not passed by the end of February: Defeated 322 to 290

The (Caroline) Spelman - (Jack) Dromey Amendment, symbolically rejecting a No-Deal Brexit: Passed 318 to 310 thanks to Conservative rebels

The (Graham) Brady Amendment, calling to support Theresa May's Brexit deal provided the backstop is replaced with "alternative arrangements to avoid a hard border": Passed 317 to 301 with the support of the DUP and 7 Labour rebels.

So on one hand the House of Commons has (symbolically and in non-binding fashion) rejected a No Deal Brexit, while at the same time giving May's Deal a majority provided she can get rid of the Backstop. Thus May technically has a mandate to try again and can point out that Parliament will approve her deal if the Backstop is removed... but the EU has made it clear the Deal is not up for renegotiation and that the backstop cannot be removed.
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Justice Blair
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« Reply #1671 on: January 29, 2019, 06:19:42 pm »

And Cooper amendment failed due to Labour rebels- and they're certainly a motley bunch.
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rc18
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« Reply #1672 on: January 29, 2019, 07:45:47 pm »

From what I understand from this latest round of voting, no deal has just become much more likely.
It was always somewhat likely given it is the default and parliament is hopelessly divided on any alternative.  The most significant thing from today IMO was it demonstrated that there is no majority in parliament to frustrate brexit. If there is no majority for delay there is likely no majority for a 2nd ref or revocation. Will be interesting to watch how MPs change tack in the coming weeks.
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Antonio V
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« Reply #1673 on: January 29, 2019, 08:01:04 pm »

This is pure denial. If Parliament keeps asking to have its cake and eat it too, they'll end up with no cake at all.
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Ye Olde Europe
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« Reply #1674 on: January 30, 2019, 05:56:19 am »

So, Theresa May will now (again) unsuccessfully try to renegotiate the deal with the EU until the hard Brexit happens on March 29?
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