UK General Discussion: 2017 and onwards, Mayhem

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Good to see the "friends of Israel" purging themselves out. Will help labour get a clearer message and win even more decisively next election.

Not that I'm without sympathy for a more genuinely socialist direction for Labour--I want to like and support Corbyn, I really do--but holy sh**t, dude, did you read anything Justice Blair posted above?!

Ken Livingstone made a solid point and they were right not to kick him out. As for Berger she's been an attention queen for years. If Milliband or a reliable Jewish labour source were saying this, I might feel differently.

ok troll

[Horus]

Good to see the "friends of Israel" purging themselves out. Will help labour get a clearer message and win even more decisively next election.

Not that I'm without sympathy for a more genuinely socialist direction for Labour--I want to like and support Corbyn, I really do--but holy sh**t, dude, did you read anything Justice Blair posted above?!

Ken Livingstone made a solid point and they were right not to kick him out. As for Berger she's been an attention queen for years. If Milliband or a reliable Jewish labour source were saying this, I might feel differently.

ok troll

Zionism and Nazism have always coexisted well.. This is why Richard Spencer (and a growing number of white nationalists) is a Zionist, he wants Jews out of America - Israel is the perfect solution to his imaginary problem.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Good to see the "friends of Israel" purging themselves out. Will help labour get a clearer message and win even more decisively next election.

Not that I'm without sympathy for a more genuinely socialist direction for Labour--I want to like and support Corbyn, I really do--but holy sh**t, dude, did you read anything Justice Blair posted above?!

Ken Livingstone made a solid point and they were right not to kick him out. As for Berger she's been an attention queen for years. If Milliband or a reliable Jewish labour source were saying this, I might feel differently.

ok troll

Zionism and Nazism have always coexisted well.. This is why Richard Spencer (and a growing number of white nationalists) is a Zionist, he wants Jews out of America - Israel is the perfect solution to his imaginary problem.

ok antisemite

[Horus]

Good to see the "friends of Israel" purging themselves out. Will help labour get a clearer message and win even more decisively next election.

Not that I'm without sympathy for a more genuinely socialist direction for Labour--I want to like and support Corbyn, I really do--but holy sh**t, dude, did you read anything Justice Blair posted above?!

Ken Livingstone made a solid point and they were right not to kick him out. As for Berger she's been an attention queen for years. If Milliband or a reliable Jewish labour source were saying this, I might feel differently.

ok troll

Zionism and Nazism have always coexisted well.. This is why Richard Spencer (and a growing number of white nationalists) is a Zionist, he wants Jews out of America - Israel is the perfect solution to his imaginary problem.

ok antisemite

Nah bro I love myself. Sorry that the truth hurts.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Good to see the "friends of Israel" purging themselves out. Will help labour get a clearer message and win even more decisively next election.

Not that I'm without sympathy for a more genuinely socialist direction for Labour--I want to like and support Corbyn, I really do--but holy sh**t, dude, did you read anything Justice Blair posted above?!

Ken Livingstone made a solid point and they were right not to kick him out. As for Berger she's been an attention queen for years. If Milliband or a reliable Jewish labour source were saying this, I might feel differently.

ok troll

Zionism and Nazism have always coexisted well.. This is why Richard Spencer (and a growing number of white nationalists) is a Zionist, he wants Jews out of America - Israel is the perfect solution to his imaginary problem.

ok antisemite

Nah bro I love myself. Sorry that the truth hurts.

ok troll

[Horus]

Good to see the "friends of Israel" purging themselves out. Will help labour get a clearer message and win even more decisively next election.

Not that I'm without sympathy for a more genuinely socialist direction for Labour--I want to like and support Corbyn, I really do--but holy sh**t, dude, did you read anything Justice Blair posted above?!

Ken Livingstone made a solid point and they were right not to kick him out. As for Berger she's been an attention queen for years. If Milliband or a reliable Jewish labour source were saying this, I might feel differently.

ok troll

Zionism and Nazism have always coexisted well.. This is why Richard Spencer (and a growing number of white nationalists) is a Zionist, he wants Jews out of America - Israel is the perfect solution to his imaginary problem.

ok antisemite

Nah bro I love myself. Sorry that the truth hurts.

ok troll

Really not cool or respectful to call Jewish people antisemites.

[Helsinkian]

Joan Ryan (Enfield North) has quit Labour.

She is joining TIG.

This is how Young Labour reacted:

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Good to see the "friends of Israel" purging themselves out. Will help labour get a clearer message and win even more decisively next election.

Not that I'm without sympathy for a more genuinely socialist direction for Labour--I want to like and support Corbyn, I really do--but holy sh**t, dude, did you read anything Justice Blair posted above?!

Ken Livingstone made a solid point and they were right not to kick him out. As for Berger she's been an attention queen for years. If Milliband or a reliable Jewish labour source were saying this, I might feel differently.

ok troll

Zionism and Nazism have always coexisted well.. This is why Richard Spencer (and a growing number of white nationalists) is a Zionist, he wants Jews out of America - Israel is the perfect solution to his imaginary problem.

ok antisemite

Nah bro I love myself. Sorry that the truth hurts.

ok troll

Really not cool or respectful to call Jewish people antisemites.

Surely even you must admit that it's not exactly a natural assumption to make that an online stranger is Jewish when they're calling people who have sustained antisemitic abuse and threats "attention queens" and talking about the compatibility of Zionism and Nazism.

[Horus]

Good to see the "friends of Israel" purging themselves out. Will help labour get a clearer message and win even more decisively next election.

Not that I'm without sympathy for a more genuinely socialist direction for Labour--I want to like and support Corbyn, I really do--but holy sh**t, dude, did you read anything Justice Blair posted above?!

Ken Livingstone made a solid point and they were right not to kick him out. As for Berger she's been an attention queen for years. If Milliband or a reliable Jewish labour source were saying this, I might feel differently.

ok troll

Zionism and Nazism have always coexisted well.. This is why Richard Spencer (and a growing number of white nationalists) is a Zionist, he wants Jews out of America - Israel is the perfect solution to his imaginary problem.

ok antisemite

Nah bro I love myself. Sorry that the truth hurts.

ok troll

Really not cool or respectful to call Jewish people antisemites.

Surely even you must admit that it's not exactly a natural assumption to make that an online stranger is Jewish when they're calling people who have sustained antisemitic abuse and threats "attention queens" and talking about the compatibility of Zionism and Nazism.

I care about the future of the Jewish people, and the only way they'll survive is if they abandon Israel and come to America. This country has treated my family amazingly well for 5 generations and will continue to. On its current trajectory Israel has 50 years left, tops.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

That itself is a reasonable position, and I know plenty of American Jews who would agree with it, but in this context I'm going to call goalpost-moving.

Anyway, let's not derail the UK thread with posts that are talking primarily about the US and Israel.

[DC Al Fine]

Good to see the "friends of Israel" purging themselves out. Will help labour get a clearer message and win even more decisively next election.

Not that I'm without sympathy for a more genuinely socialist direction for Labour--I want to like and support Corbyn, I really do--but holy sh**t, dude, did you read anything Justice Blair posted above?!

The clearer message he's applauding is "No Jews allowed" apparently.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I was all too ready to gang up on the IG, since I do strongly suspect that at least Umunna's concern for antisemitism is a pretext and that the only thing he really cares about is making sure a real left-wing party will never win power in the UK (Berger is of course a different story and I do have a lot of sympathy for her), but Horus' posts in this thread and the general atmosphere that seems to be emanating out of it are pretty much proving them right. Congrats, people.

[An American Tail: Fubart Goes West]

Young Labour really isn’t helping. I mean, I’m somewhat cooling on the breakaway MPs, especially the 8th, but tweeting that crap is not good.

Good to see the "friends of Israel" purging themselves out. Will help labour get a clearer message and win even more decisively next election.

Like they did this time? There's more chance of me dating Jennifer Lawrence, who has just gotten engaged.

Now you only have to compete against one dude.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I’ve always thought Berger was the whiniest, most annoying MP. I watch PMQ every Sunday on CSPAN and I’ve never heard her speak about anything other than “abusive tweets.” I’m not denying that a strongly anti-Semitic current exists in Labor, but if the UK allows Berger to individually define what is and what isn’t anti-semitism than pretty soon even the urinal cakes will be called out by her.

[Sestak]

I was all too ready to gang up on the IG, since I do strongly suspect that at least Umunna's concern for antisemitism is a pretext and that the only thing he really cares about is making sure a real left-wing party will never win power in the UK (Berger is of course a different story and I do have a lot of sympathy for her), but Horus' posts in this thread and the general atmosphere that seems to be emanating out of it are pretty much proving them right. Congrats, people.

Horus really does have a knack for doing this sort of thing, doesn't he?

[Blair]

I’ve always thought Berger was the whiniest, most annoying MP. I watch PMQ every Sunday on CSPAN and I’ve never heard her speak about anything other than “abusive tweets.” I’m not denying that a strongly anti-Semitic current exists in Labor, but if the UK allows Berger to individually define what is and what isn’t anti-semitism than pretty soon even the urinal cakes will be called out by her.

She's had five people sentenced for making threats against her, including some against her life. The police said she was facing up to 2,500 antisemitic, and gave her police protection to attend the party conference.

She's faced the most vile, antisemitic abuse, and it's also not true to say she only talks about it in the House of Commons considering she's seen as one of the most effective campaigning MPs around mental health issues.

[parochial boy]

I was all too ready to gang up on the IG, since I do strongly suspect that at least Umunna's concern for antisemitism is a pretext and that the only thing he really cares about is making sure a real left-wing party will never win power in the UK (Berger is of course a different story and I do have a lot of sympathy for her), but Horus' posts in this thread and the general atmosphere that seems to be emanating out of it are pretty much proving them right. Congrats, people.

Yeah, this. And what totally  i n g ridiculous is that Labour is managing to bring itself down by failing to deal with a bunch of obsessives who have got way too involved in the "Israel" thing, which is an issue that a) Real life people, you know , the ones Labour are supposed to stand for, who are more worried about the state of housing, schools, whatever don't actually care about b) Britain's position on is totally irrelevant anyway.

[YL]

I was all too ready to gang up on the IG, since I do strongly suspect that at least Umunna's concern for antisemitism is a pretext and that the only thing he really cares about is making sure a real left-wing party will never win power in the UK (Berger is of course a different story and I do have a lot of sympathy for her), but Horus' posts in this thread and the general atmosphere that seems to be emanating out of it are pretty much proving them right. Congrats, people.

Yes, there's a really nasty (and, frankly, cult-like) element among Corbyn supporters which has been bullying some of these MPs (not just Berger, though she's probably been treated worst) and is showing itself up horribly in the reactions to this.

I still feel the MPs have made the wrong decision, and the fact that it's mainly said nasty element (and some Tories) who are celebrating is partly why.  But it's hard not to have a fair amount of sympathy for them.

Anyway, there are rumours that TIG will be gaining a few more members today.

[Hnv1]

Joan Ryan (Enfield North) has quit Labour.

She is joining TIG.

This is how Young Labour reacted:

Incredible. their party is in deep sh**te, the UK is on the edge with Brexit, and this young muppets are busy with a conflict half way across the world

[Antonio the Sixth]

Ugh, yeah, these are utterly vile, disgusting people who have no place in a left-wing party. It is a huge and at this point permanent black mark on Corbyn's leadership that he still isn't capable or willing to crack down on them. I hope to God that something will be done now to stop the bleeding before it actually does get to SDP-esque proportions, but knowing the Labour leadership I'm not reassured.

I still think the TIG people have horrible politics and I still think the party is better off without worthless New Labour leftovers like Umunna, but I realize now that the situation is far less black-and-white than I had assumed.

[YL]

And those rumours appear to be correct.  Heidi Allen, Anna Soubry and Sarah Wollaston are leaving the Tories to join TIG.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/20/tory-mps-defect-independent-group-soubry-allen-wollaston

[parochial boy]

They now have as many MPs as the Lib Dems *sn*

[Middle-aged Europe]

Interesting that the TIG now consists of seven women and only four men, although 55% of all Labour and 79% of all Tory MPs are male.

[rc18]

I was all too ready to gang up on the IG, since I do strongly suspect that at least Umunna's concern for antisemitism is a pretext and that the only thing he really cares about is making sure a real left-wing party will never win power in the UK (Berger is of course a different story and I do have a lot of sympathy for her), but Horus' posts in this thread and the general atmosphere that seems to be emanating out of it are pretty much proving them right. Congrats, people.

Yeah, this. And what totally  i n g ridiculous is that Labour is managing to bring itself down by failing to deal with a bunch of obsessives who have got way too involved in the "Israel" thing, which is an issue that a) Real life people, you know , the ones Labour are supposed to stand for, who are more worried about the state of housing, schools, whatever don't actually care about b) Britain's position on is totally irrelevant anyway.

Welcome to the modern Left. The Labour Party is no longer a party of the working class; at the last election the Conservatives had more lower social-grade voters than Labour. It's not surprising you fixate on irrelevant issues when your voters are the ones with no real problems and wish to virtue signal as a kind of atonement for their privilege. This situation of course is unsustainable, because the virtue signallers are precisely the people who have most to lose from a Corbynite old school "real socialism".

[Intell]

I was all too ready to gang up on the IG, since I do strongly suspect that at least Umunna's concern for antisemitism is a pretext and that the only thing he really cares about is making sure a real left-wing party will never win power in the UK (Berger is of course a different story and I do have a lot of sympathy for her), but Horus' posts in this thread and the general atmosphere that seems to be emanating out of it are pretty much proving them right. Congrats, people.

Yeah, this. And what totally  i n g ridiculous is that Labour is managing to bring itself down by failing to deal with a bunch of obsessives who have got way too involved in the "Israel" thing, which is an issue that a) Real life people, you know , the ones Labour are supposed to stand for, who are more worried about the state of housing, schools, whatever don't actually care about b) Britain's position on is totally irrelevant anyway.

Welcome to the modern Left. The Labour Party is no longer a party of the working class; at the last election the Conservatives had more lower social-grade voters than Labour. It's not surprising you fixate on irrelevant issues when your voters are the ones with no real problems and wish to virtue signal as a kind of atonement for their privilege. This situation of course is unsustainable, because the virtue signallers are precisely the people who have most to lose from a Corbynite old school "real socialism".

This is of course one of the things Orwell warned about.

It clearly didn't, if you look at disadvantaged constituencies and see the share of labour vote to conservative vote.