Death Penalty

[jravnsbo]

A board for death penalty discussions as we were getting off topic int he Guns forum.

[jravnsbo]

I blieve it is 37 states that have the death penalty now.  Plus the federal and military courts.

Juries must now recommend the sdeath sentence and usually the death penalty is given by an "Aggravating factor" rather than just a plain murder.

Death penalty is hard to discuss. Either you believe that the government should have the right to kill it's own citizens in times of peace, or you don't. That's the dividing line and few people change their minds on that, I think death penalty is often used as an example of an issue where people have deeply held beliefs and are unlikely to change.

I'm sure you mean by the right, after the person has commited a crime deserving of.

[jravnsbo]

which ones, what?  states or aggravating factors?

Just curious, but which ones?

[jravnsbo]

Yes but still in the minority of Americans.  37 states have it and the fed and military systems have it.

See jravnsbo!  I'm not the only one.

[jravnsbo]

Well I don't think it should be immediate, as to safeguard the system somewhat.  But I do think DNA should be done during the trial and then automatic appeal straight to the state supreme court, skipping any court of appeals.

I like the VA method of running the fed and state appeals concurrently.

I oppose the death penalty. I see no logical argument supporting it. Murder is immoral and despicable in any shape or form, whether sanctioned by an individual or by government. I'm much happier letting a murderer rot in jail. Besides, I'm yet to see any proof that the death penalty works as a deterrent.

Capital punishment effectively makes murderers out of government, the judicial system, and consequently society as a whole, which makes it totally self-defeatist. But obviously that's just my personal belief.

What about the logical arument about the expense of keeping someone locked up for the rest of their natural life?
It would be nice to see all of the larger states impose a swift death penalty. Not put someone on death row until all appeals have been exhausted.
My proposal, if I were governor in a state that had the death penalty, would be to have an automatic, swift appeals process, whereby the Supreme Court no longer had to accept cases of that nature. Once original sentence is passed, the convict would be placed in a holding cell. Then a special appeals court would meet immediately following the verdict, prosecution and attorneys for both sides present, and then they can validate or invalidate the circuit court's ruling. Once validated, the prisoner is taken to the courtyard, tied and bound to a post and given one last cigarette/prayer to make things right with GOD, a chance to ask for frogiveness of the victims, and whatever other statement, then shoot em. Very painless, very quick, very justice served.

[jravnsbo]

sorry to hear about your loss.  That woiuld be very tramatic for anyone.

I think tying someone to a post outdoors and shooting them makes a spectacle out of something that could be performed in a semi-private venue with a more reliable method. Also, your idea of an appelate court gives very little time for both the petitioner and the respondent to formulate an argument. Christopher Michael, I am once again awestruck in horror at one of your ideas. While God was revealing to you that you'd be a conservative Democratic president, why didn't He tell you to lay off the whip and chains approach to criminal justice?

What about the whip and chains approach upon the American Tax Payer? Also, Have you ever been a loved one to a victim of a horrendous bloody murder? I have, my favorite first cousin was cleaning up at the Pub where he worked at in Butte, Montana. There was a Jewelry Heist that had gone on right across the street from the Pub. He was shot to death 2 x in the chest and once in his back. So, before you make any accusations against me not having compassion for cold-blooded killers, think twice. Why am I a conservative democrat? On Moral/Social issues I am more Republican in nature. On Economic policy I am a Liberal Democrat. So, go blow your horn of Judgment elsewhere!

[jravnsbo]

punishment for ones crimes does not just include rehab, it include paying for your crimes and preventing it from happening again.  An executed killer has never murdered again.

That is precisely why you cannot be considered objective on this issue. You have a personal stake in the continuance of the death penalty, and this emotional factor obviously influences your opinion. I haven't suffered the pain of losing someone in a murder, so I can speak on this issue. While I realize retribution is on the mind of those left behind, I would advise them to consider its similarity to vengeance. Rather than swallowing themselves up in vengenace, they could always forgive and show mercy, for forgiveness and mercy are the highest attributes of the human soul.

[jravnsbo]

Another point, ina  number of cases by having the death penalty hanging ove rthe head of a killer he will confess where the body is or some evidence to then plead to a deal and just get life.  That brings closure to the family and the case.  If you did not have that sentence hanging out there, many have said they would never have told.

[jravnsbo]

good then you won't feel bad after election day 2004.

Yes but still in the minority of Americans.  37 states have it and the fed and military systems have it.

See jravnsbo!  I'm not the only one.

I'm in the minority in almost everything.  So it doesn't bother me.

[jravnsbo]

no, because we won in the electoral college and that is all that matters and then had both houses of Congress for the first time in 50 years, it was great!  and since then the GOP majorities in the states and federal levels have only expanded.

[jravnsbo]

Sure! Gore in 4!  ( at least int he primary!)

no, because we won in the electoral college and that is all that matters and then had both houses of Congress for the first time in 50 years, it was great!  and since then the GOP majorities in the states and federal levels have only expanded.

Your candidate had the second most votes of anyone running for president in 2000.

GORE FOR PRESIDENT 2008

[jravnsbo]

I guess there are 38 states with it.

check out this link for further info as you desire.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=121&scid=11#with

which ones, what?  states or aggravating factors?

states

[jravnsbo]

very odd-- cop killers should never get out.

Connecticut also has the death penalty but has not used it since 1960.  I think New York last used it around that time.

I support the death penalty because I believe in the saying that "mercy for the guilty is cruelty to the innocent."  There are some people who deserve no better than death.

But I think it has to be used very carefully.

I would probably be happy with if killers were given a true life sentence with no possibility of parole.  But we can't trust liberal states like New York to keep these people behind bars.

 It makes my blood boil that NY state released Kathy Boudin, who participated in the 1981 Brinks robbery in which several policemen were killed.  She did only 22 years for those murders, while the families of those killed are effectively serving a life sentence.  She should never have been released.

[jravnsbo]

but what is a human life worth to you?

I keep pointing to the TX case where the thugs got life and then escaped and went ont he killing spree.  Plus how about the killer in Massachusets that killed the priest that was a child molester.  He killed and nothing will happen to him further, maybe it wasn't mass, was a non death penalty state.

Not for child molesters at all, but example iof a killer with life able to kill and no punishment, what is his deterent?

I am personally opposed to the death penalty, but many who live around me are not.

Well, here's the kicker:
To house a criminal for 30 years, it costs about $800,000.
To execute a criminal, including all appeals, etc., it costs about $2,000,000.

We can debate the morality of the death penalty all day, but the numbers do not lie.
The death penalty costs much more money, and when every state is in money trouble, it is too expensive.

[jravnsbo]

It is a punsihment but I was giving 2 quick examples of how life sentence does not stopa  killer from killing again unlike the death sentence, which stops killers from killing again.  

but what is a human life worth to you?

I keep pointing to the TX case where the thugs got life and then escaped and went ont he killing spree.  Plus how about the killer in Massachusets that killed the priest that was a child molester.  He killed and nothing will happen to him further, maybe it wasn't mass, was a non death penalty state.

Not for child molesters at all, but example iof a killer with life able to kill and no punishment, what is his deterent?

I am personally opposed to the death penalty, but many who live around me are not.

Well, here's the kicker:
To house a criminal for 30 years, it costs about $800,000.
To execute a criminal, including all appeals, etc., it costs about $2,000,000.

We can debate the morality of the death penalty all day, but the numbers do not lie.
The death penalty costs much more money, and when every state is in money trouble, it is too expensive.

How is the life sentence not punishment?

[jravnsbo]

prove it outside of a liberal source.

It is a punsihment but I was giving 2 quick examples of how life sentence does not stopa  killer from killing again unlike the death sentence, which stops killers from killing again.  

but what is a human life worth to you?

I keep pointing to the TX case where the thugs got life and then escaped and went ont he killing spree.  Plus how about the killer in Massachusets that killed the priest that was a child molester.  He killed and nothing will happen to him further, maybe it wasn't mass, was a non death penalty state.

Not for child molesters at all, but example iof a killer with life able to kill and no punishment, what is his deterent?

I am personally opposed to the death penalty, but many who live around me are not.

Well, here's the kicker:
To house a criminal for 30 years, it costs about $800,000.
To execute a criminal, including all appeals, etc., it costs about $2,000,000.

We can debate the morality of the death penalty all day, but the numbers do not lie.
The death penalty costs much more money, and when every state is in money trouble, it is too expensive.

How is the life sentence not punishment?

And I'm sure there are 2 cases where an innocent person was given the death penalty.

[jravnsbo]

Utah still has the firing squad as a form of the death penalty.

They even executed the first person in the US after the SCT reversed itself.  So some joked I remember that the death penalty came back witha  BANG!

I am personally opposed to the death penalty, but many who live around me are not.

Well, here's the kicker:
To house a criminal for 30 years, it costs about $800,000.
To execute a criminal, including all appeals, etc., it costs about $2,000,000.

We can debate the morality of the death penalty all day, but the numbers do not lie.
The death penalty costs much more money, and when every state is in money trouble, it is too expensive.

Why does it cost so much though? There doesn't seem reason enough to justify such costs. Some countries execute their convicted killers right away after being taken out of the courtroom. Let's do that? What? The price of a few High Powered Rifles and bullets. Done.

You want to shoot the convicted criminals?

[jravnsbo]

oh that chinese way would be doubling insulting!  ouch, sting

[jravnsbo]

I still like the death penalty hanging out there over some of there heads.  As I said before it can produce a missing body or evidence for closure to the family.  You can always plea it down to life, but if no death penalty then you have nothing to offer them and they have noreason to talk and thus no closure for the family.  Which is the saddest part.

I oppose the death penalty because I believe that government should not have the right to execute its citizens under any circumstances. I feel that the government should set a moral example and not stoop to the levels of the criminals. I do not believe in an eye for an eye, I feel that we as a society should be better than the criminal. The death penalty breeds a culture in which killing is considered acceptable for moral reasons. The murderers probably have their own twisted warped moral reasons for why what they are doing is correct, and thus any acknowledgement that murder is acceptable for any moral reasons at all helps to breed these attitudes.
I feel that life in prison is, in some ways, a greater punishment than death. It gives the person the rest of their life to live with what they have done, and to not have any freedom to be a part of society.

Good post.  And, yes, life imprisionment is a greater punishment than death.