Opinion of the Hajj
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  Opinion of the Hajj
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Question: Opinion of the Hajj
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Author Topic: Opinion of the Hajj  (Read 2566 times)
they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
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« on: June 12, 2017, 10:52:21 PM »

Now this actually sounds pretty cool and exciting. I wish there was a Christian equivalent that I could go on, although preferably one that would be allowed any time of year.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2017, 11:12:06 PM »

Now this actually sounds pretty cool and exciting. I wish there was a Christian equivalent that I could go on, although preferably one that would be allowed any time of year.

Christianity has it a bit rough on that front. Its holy cities like Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Nazareth, and Antioch aren't exactly in friendly hands, and Rome and Constantinople are only holy cities to certain subsets of Christians.

One of the most critical developments towards the creation of the Papacy was the shift in the balance from "Five patriarchs representing holy cities of the Pentarchy" to "Oh s**t, Jerusalem, Alexandria, and Antioch are in enemy hands, guess we're down to just two," in dramatically accelerating the concentration of power in Rome. Once Rome and Constantinople fell out with each other, that finished the job.



Anyway, the Hajj is a fantastic idea marred by some horrible infrastructure nightmares. It is pretty much expected that a few people will be trampled to death every year.
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Santander
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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2017, 11:16:02 AM »

Now this actually sounds pretty cool and exciting. I wish there was a Christian equivalent that I could go on, although preferably one that would be allowed any time of year.
Ah yes. Religion should revolve around my vacation calendar!
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2017, 12:32:58 PM »

See that little black dot? Why, that's the holiest site of Islam.


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Santander
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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2017, 12:36:57 PM »

See that little black dot? Why, that's the holiest site of Islam.



It's rather unfortunate that the outrageously over the top Fairmont casts a shadow of the Grand Mosque.
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Stranger in a strange land
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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2017, 12:50:09 PM »
« Edited: June 13, 2017, 04:18:59 PM by Stranger in a strange land »

Now this actually sounds pretty cool and exciting. I wish there was a Christian equivalent that I could go on, although preferably one that would be allowed any time of year.
Ah yes. Religion should revolve around my vacation calendar!

There are huge issues with crowd crushes and stampedes (typically resulting in at least hundreds of deaths each year) as a result of everyone having to come for Hajj at the same time.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2017, 02:09:44 AM »

Now this actually sounds pretty cool and exciting. I wish there was a Christian equivalent that I could go on, although preferably one that would be allowed any time of year.
Ah yes. Religion should revolve around my vacation calendar!

There are huge issues with crowd crushes and stampedes (typically resulting in at least hundreds of deaths each year) as a result of everyone having to come for Hajj at the same time.
That is indeed a major problem with the Hajj today. But to keep it a ritual, I think at most it could be performed once a month which helps for now, but doesn't help that much.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2017, 06:31:40 PM »

Dear Mr Allah,

I am writing to inform you that upon examining your religion, I have sadly concluded that many facets remain unworkable to fit around my personal life. Please gracefully accept these humble suggestions to change the religion a bit:

1) update the hajj calander so that one can fix a festival schedule around it. Plus, have you considered a tie-in with Ingress? Think about it.

2) please clarify that under the rules of hijab, women are not obligated to cover - nay, encouraged to reveal - their feet? (I agree that it must be haram for men to cover their feet)

3) why were the Catholics allowed to stay in Iberia?

Yours sincerely
BRTD
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Zioneer
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« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2017, 07:13:50 PM »

Now this actually sounds pretty cool and exciting. I wish there was a Christian equivalent that I could go on, although preferably one that would be allowed any time of year.

Well, some Mormons treat visits to Nauvoo, Illinois as similar to a pilgrimage. As well as Carthage Illinois, since that's where the founder of our faith was murdered. It's not an official thing, but its something a lot of Mormon families do.
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dead0man
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« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2017, 04:09:14 PM »

See that little black dot? Why, that's the holiest site of Islam.



I think I figured out why so many Muslims are pissed off.  Their number one holy site looks like Las Vegas.
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KingSweden
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« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2017, 11:12:54 PM »

A friend of mine went on the hajj in college said it was a very valuable experience

Of course this was before the Saudis tore down pre-Islamic buildings near the Kaba to turn Mecca into Holy Vegas
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Harry
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« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2017, 02:20:07 PM »

Pretty cool, although it kinda sucks how there are a billion Muslims and only a couple million can do the Hajj per year - for over 90% of Muslims it's just mathematically impossible to ever go.
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BRTD
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« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2017, 08:27:23 AM »

And that's also why a Christian equivalent would have to be held at least multiple times a year, >90% of Muslims probably can't afford to go on the Hajj anyway, but since Christians are in more affluent countries, there'd be far more able to do so.
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RFayette
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« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2017, 10:01:35 AM »

And that's also why a Christian equivalent would have to be held at least multiple times a year, >90% of Muslims probably can't afford to go on the Hajj anyway, but since Christians are in more affluent countries, there'd be far more able to do so.

For Protestants, maybe a trip to Germany would work. Smiley
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2017, 12:54:33 PM »

A friend of mine went on the hajj in college said it was a very valuable experience

Of course this was before the Saudis tore down pre-Islamic buildings near the Kaba to turn Mecca into Holy Vegas

With the blessing (*ahem*) of the Wahhabist clerics who have a theologically*-driven obsession with
destroying everything in the Kingdom that could even potentially be a site of idolatry.

*Though doing so also cements the Wahhabists' power and influence within (Sunni) Islam generally and Saudi society particularly.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2017, 04:57:19 PM »
« Edited: June 27, 2017, 04:59:44 PM by Kingpoleon »

And that's also why a Christian equivalent would have to be held at least multiple times a year, >90% of Muslims probably can't afford to go on the Hajj anyway, but since Christians are in more affluent countries, there'd be far more able to do so.

For Protestants, maybe a trip to Germany would work. Smiley

I believe Wesleyanism has its roots in two of the three oldest Protestant denominations: that of Jan Hus and that of Peter Waldo. Taking into account the effect Wycliffe's theology affected Wesley's Anglican Church, as well as his own attachment to the teachings of Luther, it can easily be argued that Wesleyanism/Methodism is descended from all four of the earliest Protestants.

Edit: In case you were wondering, the Waldensians, numbering 45,000, have merged with the Methodists in Italy. The Moravians are down to about 245,000 members, and Wycliffe's followers no longer really exist as a church. Those that remained simply merged into the Anglican Church and, later, from the Anglican Church into the Methodist Church.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2017, 05:09:15 PM »

     Santiago de Compostela is a famous Christian pilgrimage site, with over a quarter of a million people last year traveling the Camino de Santiago. BRTD can't do that though, because it's Catholic.
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Mopsus
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« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2017, 08:16:09 PM »

     Santiago de Compostela is a famous Christian pilgrimage site, with over a quarter of a million people last year traveling the Camino de Santiago. BRTD can't do that though, because it's Catholic.

Good point: there are tons of locations associated with different Christian saints, and any one of them could serve as a focus of pilgrimage.

Of course, if we want to avoid the "Mecca problem", we might have to start sanctifying more Americans.
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Kringla Heimsins
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« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2017, 05:16:35 PM »

     Santiago de Compostela is a famous Christian pilgrimage site, with over a quarter of a million people last year traveling the Camino de Santiago. BRTD can't do that though, because it's Catholic.

Good point: there are tons of locations associated with different Christian saints, and any one of them could serve as a focus of pilgrimage.

Of course, if we want to avoid the "Mecca problem", we might have to start sanctifying more Americans.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Protestants don't recognize Sainthood, right? That's the problem with being an heretic.

The Santiago pilgrimage is a pretty cool experience (I've heard). The point it to do it by foot along the historical ways :

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Santander
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« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2017, 05:33:51 PM »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Protestants don't recognize Sainthood, right? That's the problem with being an heretic.
Anglicans do.
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BRTD
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« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2017, 08:47:21 PM »

     Santiago de Compostela is a famous Christian pilgrimage site, with over a quarter of a million people last year traveling the Camino de Santiago. BRTD can't do that though, because it's Catholic.

Good point: there are tons of locations associated with different Christian saints, and any one of them could serve as a focus of pilgrimage.

Of course, if we want to avoid the "Mecca problem", we might have to start sanctifying more Americans.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Protestants don't recognize Sainthood, right?

Some do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar_of_saints_(Lutheran)
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they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
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« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2017, 11:09:58 PM »

2) please clarify that under the rules of hijab, women are not obligated to cover - nay, encouraged to reveal - their feet? (I agree that it must be haram for men to cover their feet)

Today at church the worship band was two girls and three guys. The worship leader, who was the lead vocalist and playing keyboards I noticed from the start was playing barefoot the whole time, and there was a female guitarist who got up on stage wearing sandals but then kicked them off before playing, but all the guys were wearing shoes. Was quite to my liking. Smiley
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