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| | |-+  If it wasn't for 'Nam would LBJ be one the best Presidents in the 20th Century?
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Question: If it wasn't for 'Nam would LBJ be one the best Presidents in the 20th Century?
Yes--- Top 3 or 4   -52 (61.9%)
Yes--- Top 5 or 6   -11 (13.1%)
Maybe---- but gets bumped off the top of the charts   -7 (8.3%)
No--- Decent Pres but issues with social and economic policies   -6 (7.1%)
No--- One of the worst Ever   -8 (9.5%)
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Total Voters: 84

Author Topic: If it wasn't for 'Nam would LBJ be one the best Presidents in the 20th Century?  (Read 1616 times)
Ἅιδης
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« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2017, 08:41:19 am »
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Without 'Nam he would have been the American Merkel.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2017, 03:00:04 am »
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No. Roosevelt, Roosevelt, Truman, Eisenhower, Reagan, and Clinton would be the top six. I would argue Kennedy, Ford, and H. W. were better Presidents, too.

Johnson made it quite clear he was doing it for political reasons, and the Great Society ending up pushing along stagflation.
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« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2017, 08:58:08 am »
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He'd easily be top two, probably behind FDR. Of course, without Vietnam he'd likely have been President for a decade, and who knows how the additional four years would have pushed him. Regardless, the Great Society is one of the most impactful pieces of legislation ever passed, and to rank LBJ below a doddering idiot like Reagan is a hack move.
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Southern Deputy Speaker/National Archivist TimTurner
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« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2017, 09:00:13 am »
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He'd easily be top two, probably behind FDR. Of course, without Vietnam he'd likely have been President for a decade, and who knows how the additional four years would have pushed him. Regardless, the Great Society is one of the most impactful pieces of legislation ever passed
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« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2017, 12:54:47 pm »
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The crazy thing is, until 1963 LBJ would have been castigated by far-left liberals of the jfern set as a Dixiecrat, Russell ally, sellout centrist in the pocket of the military-industrial complex, who stabbed African-Americans in the back with the toothless Civil Rights Act of 1957.
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« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2017, 03:09:06 pm »
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The crazy thing is, until 1963 LBJ would have been castigated by far-left liberals of the jfern set as a Dixiecrat, Russell ally, sellout centrist in the pocket of the military-industrial complex, who stabbed African-Americans in the back with the toothless Civil Rights Act of 1957.

He still should be thought of as those things.
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« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2017, 06:11:13 pm »
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The crazy thing is, until 1963 LBJ would have been castigated by far-left liberals of the jfern set as a Dixiecrat, Russell ally, sellout centrist in the pocket of the military-industrial complex, who stabbed African-Americans in the back with the toothless Civil Rights Act of 1957.

He still should be thought of as those things.
I'd hardly call him a centrist. I'd call him the biggest flip flopper ever to win a nomination.
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"America now is stumbling through the darkness of hatred and divisiveness. Our values, our principles, and our determination to succeed as a free and democratic people will give us a torch to light the way." - Gerald Ford

"Good speech and good looks covers man's every vice. Plain speech and plain looks covers man's every virtue."

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« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2017, 11:35:25 pm »
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http://alternate-timelines.proboards.com Here's a place you can  talk about this
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« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2017, 11:38:57 pm »
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Johnson is already one of the best 20th century presidents even considering Vietnam.
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« Reply #34 on: July 17, 2017, 11:46:39 pm »
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Johnson is already one of the best 20th century presidents even considering Vietnam.

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« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2017, 05:27:42 pm »
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No, his manipulation of the federal reserve caused stagflation for one thing. His immigration policies have had mixed effects, helping bring talent here but also causing tensions. The large expansion of the welfare state is also a very mixed legacy, helping many but also causing long term societal decay. The CRA and VRA are big accomplishments and Johnson does deserve credit for those. As a side note the CRA had bipartisan support and bipartisan opposition and either side trying to deny that is a little silly.
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« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2017, 08:13:26 pm »
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Um, HELL no. He purposefully put blacks in a cycle of welfare and poverty just for votes. Surpsised more people dont notice this.
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« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2017, 09:16:51 pm »

Um, HELL no. He purposefully put blacks in a cycle of welfare and poverty just for votes. Surpsised more people dont notice this.

So you'd prefer they'd have just been left in poverty?  More seriously, the movement of blacks into the Democratic camp had begun long before LBJ and his anti-poverty measures weren't racially specific, unless you consider the Appalachian Regional Commission which covers an area significantly whiter than the rest of America.

https://www.arc.gov/assets/research_reports/DataOverviewfrom2010to2014ACS.pdf (Table 3.1)
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« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2017, 10:43:22 am »
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Um, HELL no. He purposefully put blacks in a cycle of welfare and poverty just for votes. Surpsised more people dont notice this.

Because before the 1960's things were so good for blacks in America?
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« Reply #39 on: November 12, 2017, 11:49:05 am »
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Without Vietnam he probably could have won another term and that likely changes everything on how people see him.

I think, if re-elected in 1968, Johnson likely wouldn't have been president until January 1973, regardless of Vietnam. He would have been dead by some time in 1971 due to his health problems what leaves us with President Humphrey for another one and a half years. In 1972, either George Romney or Nelson Rockefeller would have beaten Humphrey.

LBJ was not ill while President.  He resumed smoking in retirement, much to his detriment.

LBJ is already one of the greatest in the 20th century.
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« Reply #40 on: November 12, 2017, 06:34:51 pm »
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Yes, without a doubt hes Top 5 at worst without Nam. But thats a massive IF. Thats the whole ballgame. BUT at the same time he only became President based on a fluke. Without that hes known as a great senator but one of the least active VPs ever (unless of course JFK changes course and enlists him to push legislation through the Senate)
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« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2017, 06:41:57 pm »
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Low marks for LBJ given the fact that he appointed two liberal activists to the Supreme Court. Thurgood Marshall was chosen for appointment because he was an icon of progress in racial justice, not because he was dedicated to objectivity as a judge -- which he wasn't. Marshall once said that his philosophy of how to decide cases he hears is, "You do what you think is right and let the law catch up." LBJ appointed Abe Fortas because Fortas was Johnson's crony.
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Rewrite the 14th Amendment!
States should have clear guidelines what laws they cannot pass, and the federal courts should have far less discretion in choosing what laws to strike down. Take away from the federal courts the power to define liberty and the power to define equality. Those are legislative powers and should be in the hands of legislators. Rewrite Section 1 of the 14th to make its meaning narrower and clearer.
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