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Author Topic: Russian election hacking hit 39 states, attacked voter data  (Read 631 times)
Ghost of Ruin
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« on: June 13, 2017, 11:49:07 am »
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Russian Cyber Hacks on U.S. Electoral System Far Wider Than Previously Known

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-06-13/russian-breach-of-39-states-threatens-future-u-s-elections

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Russia’s cyberattack on the U.S. electoral system before Donald Trump’s election was far more widespread than has been publicly revealed, including incursions into voter databases and software systems in almost twice as many states as previously reported.

In Illinois, investigators found evidence that cyber intruders tried to delete or alter voter data. The hackers accessed software designed to be used by poll workers on Election Day, and in at least one state accessed a campaign finance database. Details of the wave of attacks, in the summer and fall of 2016, were provided by three people with direct knowledge of the U.S. investigation into the matter. In all, the Russian hackers hit systems in a total of 39 states, one of them said.

The scope and sophistication so concerned Obama administration officials that they took an unprecedented step -- complaining directly to Moscow over a modern-day “red phone.” In October, two of the people said, the White House contacted the Kremlin on the back channel to offer detailed documents of what it said was Russia’s role in election meddling and to warn that the attacks risked setting off a broader conflict.

With the combination of his own actions, and reports like this, Trump looks less and less like a legitimate President every day.
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« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2017, 11:56:15 am »
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tl;dc
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marty
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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2017, 11:59:11 am »
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Trump is a legitimate president, and I am sorry you still can't understand that. He won the majority of electoral votes, which is what the constitution lays out as the process by which we elect presidents.

In fact, I think it hurts your case when you try to connect the hacking to Trump's legitimacy, because it makes it appear that you care more about bringing down a president you oppose than worrying about national cybersecurity.

It's also perhaps the most salient case of cognitive dissonance I have ever seen. For 15 months, you guys viewed Trump as a vile, racist, extremist radical clown who would had barely any support. When he won the election, it was the largest wrench ever thrown into your worldview. Instead of admitting you had a wrong read on many regions, communities, and towns in America, you squirm out of admittance of fault by claiming russia hacked the election.

That's what this really boils down to. Cognitive dissonance.  
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Special K
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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2017, 12:10:53 pm »
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Russia literally committed an act of war against us, and Trump voters think we're all only complaining because we're butt hurt Hillary lost.

This has nothing to do with Democrat vs. Republican, and anyone who cannot see that is a moron.

Putting party before country, the way the GOP and many Trump voters are doing, is treasonous.
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Averroës
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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2017, 12:12:50 pm »
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Russia literally committed an act of war against us,

Easy there, cowboy...
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marty
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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2017, 12:19:58 pm »
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Russia literally committed an act of war against us, and Trump voters think we're all only complaining because we're butt hurt Hillary lost.

This has nothing to do with Democrat vs. Republican, and anyone who cannot see that is a moron.

Putting party before country, the way the GOP and many Trump voters are doing, is treasonous.

Where was this sentiment from democrats during the 2012 election? Romney was attacked by you guys for his hardline stance against russia?

If you truly think russia committed an act of war in the 2016 election, how can you possibly not be upset about the kid glove treatment russia received from us for most of Obama's presidency?

In hindsight, can you please at least admit that Obama was wrong to go after romney for being too hard on russia?
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JohnCA246
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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2017, 12:31:23 pm »
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Russia literally committed an act of war against us, and Trump voters think we're all only complaining because we're butt hurt Hillary lost.

This has nothing to do with Democrat vs. Republican, and anyone who cannot see that is a moron.

Putting party before country, the way the GOP and many Trump voters are doing, is treasonous.

Where was this sentiment from democrats during the 2012 election? Romney was attacked by you guys for his hardline stance against russia?

If you truly think russia committed an act of war in the 2016 election, how can you possibly not be upset about the kid glove treatment russia received from us for most of Obama's presidency?

In hindsight, can you please at least admit that Obama was wrong to go after romney for being too hard on russia?


If Russia tried to alter voter registration, then Romney was a sage. That is as serious as it gets.
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« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2017, 01:26:50 pm »
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Russia literally committed an act of war against us, and Trump voters think we're all only complaining because we're butt hurt Hillary lost.

This has nothing to do with Democrat vs. Republican, and anyone who cannot see that is a moron.

Putting party before country, the way the GOP and many Trump voters are doing, is treasonous.
Time to invade Russia to remove Putin from power then! The US will totally win a war against Russia and not have any collateral damage from it (lol).
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Vice President PiT
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« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2017, 01:32:11 pm »

Russia literally committed an act of war against us, and Trump voters think we're all only complaining because we're butt hurt Hillary lost.

This has nothing to do with Democrat vs. Republican, and anyone who cannot see that is a moron.

Putting party before country, the way the GOP and many Trump voters are doing, is treasonous.
Time to invade Russia to remove Putin from power then! The US will totally win a war against Russia and not have any collateral damage from it (lol).

     A big part of the reason Russia is so aggressive with us is that they know we would have to be utter morons to actually fight them. What we are doing now with sanctions and diplomatic pressure is about the limit of what we realistically can do with Russia.
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Special K
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« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2017, 01:32:21 pm »
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Russia literally committed an act of war against us, and Trump voters think we're all only complaining because we're butt hurt Hillary lost.

This has nothing to do with Democrat vs. Republican, and anyone who cannot see that is a moron.

Putting party before country, the way the GOP and many Trump voters are doing, is treasonous.

Where was this sentiment from democrats during the 2012 election? Romney was attacked by you guys for his hardline stance against russia?

If you truly think russia committed an act of war in the 2016 election, how can you possibly not be upset about the kid glove treatment russia received from us for most of Obama's presidency?

In hindsight, can you please at least admit that Obama was wrong to go after romney for being too hard on russia?

Romney was right.

Also, I didn't vote for Obama.

And I'm not suggesting a war with Russia. But they DID attempt to hack into voting machines, and they succeeded in election interference. Both are aggressive acts against us. What if next time it's the Republcan candidate?
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Virginia
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« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2017, 01:37:31 pm »
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Trump is a legitimate president, and I am sorry you still can't understand that. He won the majority of electoral votes, which is what the constitution lays out as the process by which we elect presidents.

Regardless of all of this, I still believe him to have actually won the votes legitimately (even if he disgusts me).

However, this article is about a foreign power hacking state-based servers related to elections, and stealing voter registration/campaign finance databases, and then attempting to delete/modify voter registrations. Does that not concern you? What if one day they decide they want Democrats in power, then hack into the registration databases of some swing states and delete a ton of Republican voter registrations, thereby preventing them from voting?

I don't see why we can't all agree that our election-related networks need better protection, and more proactive assistance from the federal government, which is best equipped to defend against hackers - especially ones with the support, or even directly orchestrated by a nation state.
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Special K
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« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2017, 01:37:57 pm »
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Seriously, when did Republicans become so pro-Putin?

Reagan would be spinning in his grave.
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« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2017, 01:52:03 pm »
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Russia literally committed an act of war against us, and Trump voters think we're all only complaining because we're butt hurt Hillary lost.

This has nothing to do with Democrat vs. Republican, and anyone who cannot see that is a moron.

Putting party before country, the way the GOP and many Trump voters are doing, is treasonous.
Time to invade Russia to remove Putin from power then! The US will totally win a war against Russia and not have any collateral damage from it (lol).

     A big part of the reason Russia is so aggressive with us is that they know we would have to be utter morons to actually fight them. What we are doing now with sanctions and diplomatic pressure is about the limit of what we realistically can do with Russia.
I agree. Launching a war against Russia will open up a huge can of worms to say the least. Expanding sanctions that are already in place and placing a travel ban on Putin and anyone connected to his government are probably the only actions the US can take right now.
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Memo to Ross: YOU GOT MAIL !!

LOL.

Angry Iranian women will make the country safe-MDP from here on out.
Special K
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« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2017, 02:09:46 pm »
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Russia literally committed an act of war against us, and Trump voters think we're all only complaining because we're butt hurt Hillary lost.

This has nothing to do with Democrat vs. Republican, and anyone who cannot see that is a moron.

Putting party before country, the way the GOP and many Trump voters are doing, is treasonous.
Time to invade Russia to remove Putin from power then! The US will totally win a war against Russia and not have any collateral damage from it (lol).

     A big part of the reason Russia is so aggressive with us is that they know we would have to be utter morons to actually fight them. What we are doing now with sanctions and diplomatic pressure is about the limit of what we realistically can do with Russia.
I agree. Launching a war against Russia will open up a huge can of worms to say the least. Expanding sanctions that are already in place and placing a travel ban on Putin and anyone connected to his government are probably the only actions the US can take right now.

That would be fine.  I was never suggesting a war with Russia, despite what some other posters above implied.  But they are certainly not allies, and we have a president who refuses to acknowledge any kind of Russian interference even occurred ("fake news"), as well as cultists who believe everything he says.  This is the largest scandal in US presidential history, and it should be treated as such.

And while I am not suggesting a war with Russia, it is Russia who launched a war against us with their hacking of our election.  Short of actual attack, what is a greater form of aggressiveness between nations than one hacking other's election?
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« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2017, 02:20:45 pm »
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For 15 months, you guys viewed Trump as a vile, racist, extremist radical clown who would had barely any support.

Don't forget serial molester.

Instead of admitting you had a wrong read on many regions, communities, and towns in America, you squirm out of admittance of fault by claiming russia hacked the election.

Both can be true.
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« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2017, 02:34:04 pm »
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Russia literally committed an act of war against us, and Trump voters think we're all only complaining because we're butt hurt Hillary lost.

This has nothing to do with Democrat vs. Republican, and anyone who cannot see that is a moron.

Putting party before country, the way the GOP and many Trump voters are doing, is treasonous.
Time to invade Russia to remove Putin from power then! The US will totally win a war against Russia and not have any collateral damage from it (lol).

     A big part of the reason Russia is so aggressive with us is that they know we would have to be utter morons to actually fight them. What we are doing now with sanctions and diplomatic pressure is about the limit of what we realistically can do with Russia.
I agree. Launching a war against Russia will open up a huge can of worms to say the least. Expanding sanctions that are already in place and placing a travel ban on Putin and anyone connected to his government are probably the only actions the US can take right now.

Not necessarily. We probably have just as sophisticated, if not more sophisticated cyber weapons than Russia. The difference is that we're generally worse at our defenses, which is what allows these kinds of attacks to happen. That being said, I would be astounded if we didn't have some big-ticket cyber weapons ready in wait for a US-Russia conflict greater than what we see today in 2014, but still short of full-scale kinetic warfare.

Consider, for a second, it's the next Moscow mayoral election. Polls have been consistently tight between a Putin-backed candidate and an opposition activist. After massive reports of vote-rigging and ballot stuffing, the entire vote tabulation system goes offline as votes are midway through being reported. The system constantly reboots, and there is no way to access any of the data collected. Eventually, the next day, officials can access the system only to find that all the data has been erased permanently. Instead, they switch to hand-counting ballots. An hour after this starts, however, the power goes off. Etc.

Our long game is not to dislodge the Putin government by force, but to erode the public trust, in other words, exactly what they did to us in 2016. Putin's end game wasn't explicitly to get Trump elected (it was a nice side-benefit), but to make sure that no Republican will ever again accept the legitimacy of a Democratic president, and to a lesser extent vice-versa. More generally, it was to conform to Putin's overarching narrative of democracy being some idyll, that can never actually exist in the real world.
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« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2017, 08:22:25 pm »
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This is bad -- really bad. Even without judging individual pols we can question the result.

Cheaters do not deserve the rewards of victory. The Olympic committee takes medals away from those who won the event with aid from banned chemicals.

Sure, Vince Lombardi said "Winning isn't everything -- it's the only thing!"...  but his great Packers teams won clean. Winning by cheating transforms an athletic contest from a respectable enterprise into a travesty. There can be forfeits and nullification of wins once on the books. In recent years the University of Michigan had to renounce some great seasons and titles because some of its players did not have amateur status:


Quote
By the fall of 2002, it had become clear that Michigan's basketball program was guilty of major violations.[3] In response, Michigan decided to impose its own sanctions on the program.[41] Initially, Michigan announced it would forfeit every game in which the four players appeared.[41] On November 7, 2002; Michigan president Mary Sue Coleman and athletic director Bill Martin announced that the school was imposing sanctions of its own on the basketball program. Among them:

    No postseason play in 2002–03, even though the players who took Martin's money were no longer at the school.
    The school vacated the entire 1992–93 season and every game it played from the 1995–96 season through the 1998–99 season. This included the 1997 National Invitation Tournament title and the 1998 Big Ten Tournament title. It also vacated its two Final Four games in 1992 and its entire NCAA tournament record in 1993, 1996 and 1998. There is a difference between forfeiting a game and vacating a game; a vacated game does not result in the other school being credited with a win. This included virtually the entire career of Fisher's successor, Brian Ellerbe. However, it did not include all games that Webber played or was eligible because all but the final two games of his freshman year were retained.
    Returning $450,000 received from the NCAA for postseason play in 1992, 1993, 1996 and 1998
    Banners commemorating the 1992 and 1993 Final Four runs, the 1997 NIT title and 1998 Big Ten Tournament title would be removed from the rafters at Crisler Arena.
    Two years' probation.

Coleman described what happened as "wrong, plain and simple." She also said, "I am determined that nothing like this will ever happen again at Michigan."[41]

 
At 8:00 A.M. that same day, the four banners were removed from the rafters.[43] Four days later, the athletic department officially deleted all mention of Webber, Taylor, Traylor and Bullock from the school's athletic records. These included Traylor's MVP awards in the 1997 NIT and 1998 Big Ten Tournament, as well as Bullock's standing as the Big Ten's all-time leader in 3-point field goals and the school's third all-time leading scorer and all-time leader free throws made. The deletions came because the payments may have compromised their amateur status. Several players not implicated in the scandal continue to be listed among the school's honorees such as Rob Pelinka (Walter Byers Scholarship, 1993), Juwan Howard and Jalen Rose (All-American, 1994) and Jerod Ward (Big Ten All-Tournament Team, 1998).[44]

Michigan finished the 2002–2003 season with a 17–13 record, but sat out both that year's NCAA and NIT tournaments due to the self-imposed postseason ban.[45]    


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Michigan_basketball_scandal

So that's college basketball. Is the integrity of federal elections a comparative triviality?

I would like to have at least as much faith in the American political process as I have in the NCAA and the International Olympic Committee.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2017, 09:26:44 pm by pbrower2a »Logged



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Deblano
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« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2017, 08:35:52 pm »
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Russia literally committed an act of war against us,

Easy there, cowboy...
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« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2017, 09:19:58 pm »
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tl;dc

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I happened to be talking with Nixon at the time of the Iran-Contra scandal a few years ago. I didn't ask his opinion, but I think he had prepared a 10-15 minute comment on the subject for all his visitors. At the end of this mini-lecture he said, "But Reagan will survive because, when all is said and done, he can get up and say, 'I am an idiot and therefore can't be blamed,' and everyone will agree." He then looked away for a moment and said, quite wistfully, "I never had that option."
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« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2017, 09:42:22 pm »
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I am old enough to remember when Barry said that

1. Sulking losers of elections should go out there and convince the voters to vote for them based on the merits of their ideas? Nope.
2. That we don't need 1980s foreign policy.
3. That our elections are decentralized and therefore cannot be rigged, and that those who claim rigging should stop whining.


What happened?
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« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2017, 11:55:39 pm »
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For 15 months, you guys viewed Trump as a vile, racist, extremist radical clown who would had barely any support.

Don't forget serial molester.

Instead of admitting you had a wrong read on many regions, communities, and towns in America, you squirm out of admittance of fault by claiming russia hacked the election.

Both can be true.

Congratulations email King. You just won the thread.
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« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2017, 12:00:47 am »
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39 states. Overkill. Possible foreign interference in the means by which we choose our leaders. Maybe Vladimir Putin is better than other leading denizens of the Kremlin between 1917 and 1985... but the pattern looks horrible. Maybe we have gotten complacent because of our huge military establishment... maybe we need to treat the integrity of our elections as seriously as  nations victimized by the Soviet Union in the late 1940s.

The Bloomberg article is well worth reading.  
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« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2017, 01:01:10 am »
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Seriously, when did Republicans become so pro-Putin?

Reagan would be spinning in his grave.
Most of it is authoritarian admiration of the alpha dog, I guess. Same reason why Trump is in love with Putin.

If there is a line of reasoning somewhere it's probably along the lines of "Putin's a bastard. But he's our bastard".
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JohnCA246
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« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2017, 01:29:01 am »
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I previously did not think vote rigging was much of a threat because most machines were not online. I did not consider registration systems or other vulnerabilities that were online.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2017, 08:39:45 am »
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I previously did not think vote rigging was much of a threat because most machines were not online. I did not consider registration systems or other vulnerabilities that were online.

But one could hack other things, like voter registration. People likely to 'vote wrong' could be stricken from voter rolls and have no recourse in that election.
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